I builded his last shown cannon from scratch... I may post some shematics if achx allows it?
shure why not, im a little busy here :biggrin.gif:
btw that cannons are not a secret, however they taked some development and creativity to make them first, speccially the last one: 244ACTL Mutilator, that mother f$%% was complex as hell at first :biggrin.gif:
Depends on your setup, what i did was having 3x1x3 tnt, so i had introduce a redstone current on the left side, the right and under, for under i had to use torches to get an on and off state, which provided delay, not to mention i had to get around the left wall so that meant a repeater.
Actually i messed it up pretty much, could have done it better, in the end...the tnt only flew like...4-5 blocks :smile.gif:
But the cannon was intact attleast, even the redstone
OH ! sorry! *derp*
Missread the first part, i wasnt talking about detonating tnt's in free fall.
But building a cannon out of obsidian so as to not need water.
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it would make me the happiest of miners if you could make a block that is similar in function to a remote but you put in directions apply redstone power (eg. 4 blocks north- 3 blocks up) this would make this mod infinitely cooler if this is not possible i understand...i guess...*sniffle*
Hey guys, this is a question aimed towards the creators and anyone using the mod extensively. How much lag does the current mod engine create relative to the blocks connected to the controller block? In my game I was trying to make Serenity, but that was quickly scrapped when the game dropped to 1fps when I activated just the full-scale cargo bay (1022 blocks total)
So then I tried making a smaller craft, about 550-600 blocks. Even when only applying one action (either just thrust, just height, or just rotation), I still get bad lag. It gets even worse when I try to combine any action with another. I.e thrust combined with rotation. Does it have anything to do with the mods installed? I use buildcraft and Industrialcraft2, and have working piping on board my craft (for oil extraction and storage).
I have a decent computer, but could this be the cause of the lag? I have boosted minecraft's resource allocation:
Hm, something I would find useful is a grappling hook of sorts, or a throwable ladder where I throw it up onto my ship (dosent have to be active) and a rope ladder extends down. Kind of like the grappling hook from SDK's Guns Mod.
Hey guys, this is a question aimed towards the creators and anyone using the mod extensively. How much lag does the current mod engine create relative to the blocks connected to the controller block? In my game I was trying to make Serenity, but that was quickly scrapped when the game dropped to 1fps when I activated just the full-scale cargo bay (1022 blocks total)
So then I tried making a smaller craft, about 550-600 blocks. Even when only applying one action (either just thrust, just height, or just rotation), I still get bad lag. It gets even worse when I try to combine any action with another. I.e thrust combined with rotation. Does it have anything to do with the mods installed? I use buildcraft and Industrialcraft2, and have working piping on board my craft (for oil extraction and storage).
I have a decent computer, but could this be the cause of the lag? I have boosted minecraft's resource allocation:
Any help would be appreciated cheers lads. :smile.gif:
I don't know what the problem is. I can run a 4096-block carrier with 6 of Flan's Spitfires and 5 AA guns docked/mounted on it at 15 FPS, and anything smaller works perfectly. I have a similar processor, 4 Gb RAM, and an ATI Radeon 4600 (I think) GPU. I don't know how our GPUs compare, seeing as they are different brands, but other than that the only big difference is the RAM. I don't know how much that affects it, because frame rate is usually the graphics card's department, so it seems like the only thing that could go wrong is with BC/IC. Try making a copy of the ship with the same number of blocks but no pipes and see if that fixes the lag. If not, I don't know what to tell you.
designing some hull on aesthetics alone is boring.
I disagree. Or, more specifically, I like that I can make the craft look however I want, instead of being forced to use some design decision, just because I have to use some obtuse method to get the thing in the air. I agree that some additional complexity is not necessarily a bad thing. However, that additional complexity should compliment my creativity/aesthetics, instead of hindering it. In my opinion, about the only additional complexity that I would find useful would be some kind of engines/fuel burner. Even that should probably undergo some kind of limitation. Basically, a single controller block can get your craft off the ground. Everything works fine, but your max speed is, say... 5 (or 3 or whatever), and your max block count is a percentage of the total (ex: default total is 1024, and a "small" ship (1 control block) can be 20% of that total, or something). But, by adding additional "special parts" (engines, or something), you can increase the max speed/block count. Any additional complexity beyond that is, in my opinion, too much. I don't want to deal with "heaviness" of blocks ("Stone is heavier than wood? Obsidian is heavier than stone? I just want to make a ship that looks cool! This is stupid"). Leave them as they are, but change the "grade" of the ship, based on the parts it contains. For example:
1 control block = max speed 5, max block count 200 (or whatever)
1 control block + 1 engine block = max speed 10, max block count 500
1 control block + 2 engine blocks = max speed 20, max block count 1024
Obviously, all these numbers and whatnot are up for debate. I'm just making up the plan I would find reasonable, and useful. Keep it simple.
With a system like that, you wouldn't be limiting people's creativity, but you'd also be increasing the complexity. People would still be able to make their simple ships, without too much hassle. Add some engines though, and you can make your ship better. No need to worry about "buoyancy" and whatnot. You talk about RPG (and I'm probably misreading this) elements in making your ship. In my experience, in RPGs, "Anything is capable of flight if it would be cool, aeronautics or even basic physics be damned." (see RPG Clichés #65). All the more reason to forgo this "heaviness/buoyancy" thing, and go with something simpler.
I'm happy with this mod as it is (quite a bit, as it allows me freedom to build whatever I want), but some additional complexity wouldn't hurt (but too much complexity definitely would hurt.... I really don't want to deal with "buoyancy/heaviness". It just makes things not worth the effort). I actually agree with the earlier statement, that with too much complexity, we'll just end up seeing "Borg cubes" flying around, rather than cool airships. Look at this thread. Sure, some people have made really cool ships. But, based on just the questions asked ("I can't change the controls! The 'done' button is in the way!" - "This mod crashes when I have the Aether installed! Fix it!"), people won't get the whole "buoyancy" thing. Keep it simple. They'll end up making crappy looking ships, simply because they don't want to put forth the effort necessary to get it working better. If they can't even bother to read the first post, then how can you expect them to figure out how to get their ship in the air, when they have to deal with different weight values of blocks? Some people will get it, and there's a fair chance that even the noobs will catch on, eventually. Even so, all the new people will end up with crappy wooden platforms (or wool platforms...), just to get their ship airborne, since they won't bother spending the time to learn to do more.
So, overall, keep it simple. I love this mod, largely because of the freedom it provides, and the simpleness it maintains, and I don't want to see it ruined by making it too complex. Mouser X over and out.
I don't know what the problem is. I can run a 4096-block carrier with 6 of Flan's Spitfires and 5 AA guns docked/mounted on it at 15 FPS, and anything smaller works perfectly. I have a similar processor, 4 Gb RAM, and an ATI Radeon 4600 (I think) GPU. I don't know how our GPUs compare, seeing as they are different brands, but other than that the only big difference is the RAM. I don't know how much that affects it, because frame rate is usually the graphics card's department, so it seems like the only thing that could go wrong is with BC/IC. Try making a copy of the ship with the same number of blocks but no pipes and see if that fixes the lag. If not, I don't know what to tell you.
Not exactly. Graphics, and how fast they're rendered, is the graphic card's department. Regarding the Zeppelin mod though, an increase in the ship's block count doesn't change graphical stress. In other words, you can make a ship as big as you want, and it doesn't change how much the graphic card needs to process (so long as the ship doesn't also increase the amount of blocks on the screen). The increase in block count is the CPU's department, because as you increase the number of blocks in your ship, you increase the number of functions needed to be processed (aka, 1 block has... 10... (I made this number up) functions assigned to it. Thus, when you have a ship of size 1024, your CPU now has to go through 10,240 functions). This increases the workload of your CPU, but not the workload of the GPU. Therefore, the reason you experience poor framerates, is because the CPU can't keep up with the GPU. The GPU is done processing, and is waiting on the CPU for more data to process.
An increase in RAM can help, but only to an extent. The CPU is still the bottleneck though, regarding an increase in the number of blocks on your ship. All that said, it is possible that different block types have more functions assigned to them, and could therefore cause the CPU to go slower than "normal" minecraft blocks, because it has to process all of the "normal" minecraft block functions, and then the "mod block" functions on top of that. Whether this is what's going on or not though, I haven't any idea.
All in all, I wouldn't expect the graphics card to be what is causing your slowdown. I suppose it's possible (perhaps the blocks have animations, which the GPU needs to render), but I wouldn't expect that, considering it's largely a CPU problem (running additional blocks), and not a graphical problem. Mouser X over and out.
I disagree. Or, more specifically, I like that I can make the craft look however I want, instead of being forced to use some design decision, just because I have to use some obtuse method to get the thing in the air. etc etc.
I agree. A method that rewards some resource investment but also maintains the base ease of use would be optimal. I would love a warp engine or directional thrust blocks or whatever gadgets but, if I want to make a cobblestone flying pirate ship I should be able to. Even the ability to to disable the complex stuff in a config file would work I guess. Kinda like how BuildCraft has it energy framework as optional in the config file.
I do not think that a mod should be designed for the lowest common denominator of users though. If someone is too lazy to read a few pages of this thread or even the first post the mod should not be changed to accommodate such people. There are guides to just about everything having to do with mods. If you want to use mods you need to be ready to learn some basic things.
I agree. A method that rewards some resource investment but also maintains the base ease of use would be optimal. I would love a warp engine or directional thrust blocks or whatever gadgets but, if I want to make a cobblestone flying pirate ship I should be able to. Even the ability to to disable the complex stuff in a config file would work I guess. Kinda like how BuildCraft has it energy framework as optional in the config file.
I do not think that a mod should be designed for the lowest common denominator of users though. If someone is too lazy to read a few pages of this thread or even the first post the mod should not be changed to accommodate such people. There are guides to just about everything having to do with mods. If you want to use mods you need to be ready to learn some basic things.
My 2 cents.
A plan for physics and movement is in the works, we will let you know soonish (ie after 1.8.1 works properly).
On that note, 1.8.1 now compiles and works, but there is a lighting problem, so the ships are pitch black all the time. So we are close, but not done yet.
I do not think that a mod should be designed for the lowest common denominator of users though. If someone is too lazy to read a few pages of this thread or even the first post the mod should not be changed to accommodate such people. There are guides to just about everything having to do with mods. If you want to use mods you need to be ready to learn some basic things.
My 2 cents.
I agree. I can see how my post could be interpreted that way, but that wasn't my intention. I was using the "lowest common denominator" as an example of why too much complexity is a bad idea. The idea I proposed maintains enough simplicity, that even the "lowest common denominator" can use it, without actually needing to know how to. But, it also adds complexity, so that those who want to... "exercise" their design skills would be allowed to. Maybe not as much as some of the ideas proposed (which are far too complex, in my opinion), but it does require rethinking how you put something together, and possibly changing your methods for acquiring the resources necessary to build your ship. Maybe engines only work when they're at the back of your ship. Maybe there can be different kinds of engines. Different kinds of engines could be used differently. Perhaps some are similar to helicopter blades. They increase the block count (because they point straight up, they increase lift, without increasing thrust), but not the speed. Perhaps there's a "warp drive" that "max speed = 1000", but "max block count = 40%" (both numbers are made up...). By having different engine types, you could even create specialized ships, such as fighters, for example...
Anyway, based on what I've read in this thread so far (I started around page 60 or 70, I think), the biggest limiting factor to an idea like this, is block IDs. It sounds like blakmajik has a limited method to create new blocks. He's attempting to keep all of the Zeppelin's new blocks, under 1 block ID (which I applaud him for!), using the "sub-block" method. Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out a way to store more than 4 blocks under 1 ID. It's certainly possible to store more than 4 blocks (look at wool colors. Even better, look at the "Redpower" mod, or whatever it's called) under 1 ID, but due to the way that data is currently arranged, blakmajik hasn't figured out a way to do it yet. Perhaps (this is speculation) if he can get that hurdle taken care of, he'll introduce new block types (engines, or something), which will allow people to increase the complexity to their liking.
I'm not intending to speak for blakmajik, nor am I saying my idea/proposal is the right one. What I'm saying is, for me, it's acceptable as it is now. However, increased complexity would be welcome, so long as it doesn't sacrifice (aesthetic, for me) creativity and simplicity (too much). Mouser X over and out.
Thanks Mouser X, Nerdboy, and Andrewk. I'll try a little of all of the suggestions. I'll make a new craft, of similar size, using only planks. If that doesn't work, I'll try taking off IC2, then BC if all fails. I'm kinda hoping its not my CPU being a lazy ass, but I'm afraid it might be. All the more reason to buy a new computer for Skyrim ;_;
First of, as its been said again and again, the simple setting as it is now, will never go away, but there are tons of people playing around with Industrial Craft and Build Craft and
whatnot that want more and more mechanical components in minecraft, ever since Notch introduced redstone and levers.
They want dynamics and interactions and the Zeppelin mod represents the biggest revolution in minecraft when it comes to that.
You talk about RPG (and I'm probably misreading this) elements in making your ship. In my experience, in RPGs, "Anything is capable of flight if it would be cool, aeronautics or even basic physics be damned." (see RPG Clichés #65). All the more reason to forgo this "heaviness/buoyancy" thing, and go with something simpler.
Yeah you missread, and i could have chosen a better term, but what i meant was...tying the game into some arbitrary upgrade points, health and powerups is LAME and completely negates the point of building contraptions in minecraft.
Thats actually how you described it
Just.. upgrades blocks you can place around you willy nilly for more speed.
Now THATS "Some design decision" and extremely uncreative.
Oh...and the RPG genre is not defined by some silly tropes, but lets leave that for now.
I don't really see much point in your objections, simple Zeppelin will not go away even if it expands further to newer heights.
But for some gamedesign wisdom....freedom..is NOTHING without limitations, challenge and obstacles is what defines what you can do with the freedom the player is given.
Else its just fly around, "button=awsome", until the next cutscene in a bloated narrative...
I agree. I can see how my post could be interpreted that way, but that wasn't my intention. I was using the "lowest common denominator" as an example of why too much complexity is a bad idea. The idea I proposed maintains enough simplicity, that even the "lowest common denominator" can use it, without actually needing to know how to. But, it also adds complexity, so that those who want to... "exercise" their design skills would be allowed to. Maybe not as much as some of the ideas proposed (which are far too complex, in my opinion), but it does require rethinking how you put something together, and possibly changing your methods for acquiring the resources necessary to build your ship. Maybe engines only work when they're at the back of your ship. Maybe there can be different kinds of engines. Different kinds of engines could be used differently. Perhaps some are similar to helicopter blades. They increase the block count (because they point straight up, they increase lift, without increasing thrust), but not the speed. Perhaps there's a "warp drive" that "max speed = 1000", but "max block count = 40%" (both numbers are made up...). By having different engine types, you could even create specialized ships, such as fighters, for example...
Anyway, based on what I've read in this thread so far (I started around page 60 or 70, I think), the biggest limiting factor to an idea like this, is block IDs. It sounds like blakmajik has a limited method to create new blocks. He's attempting to keep all of the Zeppelin's new blocks, under 1 block ID (which I applaud him for!), using the "sub-block" method. Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out a way to store more than 4 blocks under 1 ID. It's certainly possible to store more than 4 blocks (look at wool colors. Even better, look at the "Redpower" mod, or whatever it's called) under 1 ID, but due to the way that data is currently arranged, blakmajik hasn't figured out a way to do it yet. Perhaps (this is speculation) if he can get that hurdle taken care of, he'll introduce new block types (engines, or something), which will allow people to increase the complexity to their liking.
I'm not intending to speak for blakmajik, nor am I saying my idea/proposal is the right one. What I'm saying is, for me, it's acceptable as it is now. However, increased complexity would be welcome, so long as it doesn't sacrifice (aesthetic, for me) creativity and simplicity (too much). Mouser X over and out.
I want these options and components but i don't think majik or Dieval needs to create them all.
They just need create some standard thruster blocks functionality, and then other modders can take over.
Alot of mods are now working together makings their content compatible with eachother.
I can easily see someone from Industrial craft, creating an "anti-grav" uniot or Ion-engines that can levitate and move a zeppilin entity.
I don't really have a problem with more elaborate or bigger ships being more expensive to make; in fact I think it should be encouraged. What I would be concerned about is that whatever system one might make to balance out small to mid-sized ships may be unfair to people who want to do something impractically large. Take that floating carrier from a few pages back,
Assuming the zeppelin system could support such a huge vessel (and I'm not convinced it's impossible), how much would it cost to make and keep afloat in a system that considers ships 1/30 that size to be giant? Not saying it couldn't be done, I just don't know how you could possibly make it fair for everyone with a single rule set.
But here's the thing no one is saying there should be a single rule-set/config, there is in effect no problem here, zeppelin as it is now will not disappear, nor do i want it to.
New features in this mod does not collide with older ones as long the old mode stays as an option.
Its just how Survival coexist with creativa, its up to the users.
I had an idea for a fourth controller block type: locomotive. Unlike all the others, the only control option is forward/reverse movement. Turning and altitude changes and all that are controlled by the minecart tracks the vehicle travels along--it is linked to them like a minecart is.
Obviously, hilarity will ensue when you get people building huge trains that ride on single-block-wide rails, but that's par for the course with this mod. :tongue.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger starshiplocomotive castle and try again.
I can't wait until this is 1.8.1. I'm on a small island in the middle of fricken nowhere and I want a nice boat xD However I am glad the vanilla minecraft boats are actually usable now xD
shure why not, im a little busy here :biggrin.gif:
btw that cannons are not a secret, however they taked some development and creativity to make them first, speccially the last one: 244ACTL Mutilator, that mother f$%% was complex as hell at first :biggrin.gif:
OH ! sorry! *derp*
Missread the first part, i wasnt talking about detonating tnt's in free fall.
But building a cannon out of obsidian so as to not need water.
So then I tried making a smaller craft, about 550-600 blocks. Even when only applying one action (either just thrust, just height, or just rotation), I still get bad lag. It gets even worse when I try to combine any action with another. I.e thrust combined with rotation. Does it have anything to do with the mods installed? I use buildcraft and Industrialcraft2, and have working piping on board my craft (for oil extraction and storage).
I have a decent computer, but could this be the cause of the lag? I have boosted minecraft's resource allocation:
AMD Athlon II X2 245 Processor, 2913 Mhz, 2 cores, 2 logical processors.
2 GB ram
Nvidia Geforce 8800 GT
Any help would be appreciated cheers lads. :smile.gif:
I don't know what the problem is. I can run a 4096-block carrier with 6 of Flan's Spitfires and 5 AA guns docked/mounted on it at 15 FPS, and anything smaller works perfectly. I have a similar processor, 4 Gb RAM, and an ATI Radeon 4600 (I think) GPU. I don't know how our GPUs compare, seeing as they are different brands, but other than that the only big difference is the RAM. I don't know how much that affects it, because frame rate is usually the graphics card's department, so it seems like the only thing that could go wrong is with BC/IC. Try making a copy of the ship with the same number of blocks but no pipes and see if that fixes the lag. If not, I don't know what to tell you.
My Website. I make mods for Minecraft and am also making my own game.
I disagree. Or, more specifically, I like that I can make the craft look however I want, instead of being forced to use some design decision, just because I have to use some obtuse method to get the thing in the air. I agree that some additional complexity is not necessarily a bad thing. However, that additional complexity should compliment my creativity/aesthetics, instead of hindering it. In my opinion, about the only additional complexity that I would find useful would be some kind of engines/fuel burner. Even that should probably undergo some kind of limitation. Basically, a single controller block can get your craft off the ground. Everything works fine, but your max speed is, say... 5 (or 3 or whatever), and your max block count is a percentage of the total (ex: default total is 1024, and a "small" ship (1 control block) can be 20% of that total, or something). But, by adding additional "special parts" (engines, or something), you can increase the max speed/block count. Any additional complexity beyond that is, in my opinion, too much. I don't want to deal with "heaviness" of blocks ("Stone is heavier than wood? Obsidian is heavier than stone? I just want to make a ship that looks cool! This is stupid"). Leave them as they are, but change the "grade" of the ship, based on the parts it contains. For example:
1 control block = max speed 5, max block count 200 (or whatever)
1 control block + 1 engine block = max speed 10, max block count 500
1 control block + 2 engine blocks = max speed 20, max block count 1024
Obviously, all these numbers and whatnot are up for debate. I'm just making up the plan I would find reasonable, and useful. Keep it simple.
With a system like that, you wouldn't be limiting people's creativity, but you'd also be increasing the complexity. People would still be able to make their simple ships, without too much hassle. Add some engines though, and you can make your ship better. No need to worry about "buoyancy" and whatnot. You talk about RPG (and I'm probably misreading this) elements in making your ship. In my experience, in RPGs, "Anything is capable of flight if it would be cool, aeronautics or even basic physics be damned." (see RPG Clichés #65). All the more reason to forgo this "heaviness/buoyancy" thing, and go with something simpler.
I'm happy with this mod as it is (quite a bit, as it allows me freedom to build whatever I want), but some additional complexity wouldn't hurt (but too much complexity definitely would hurt.... I really don't want to deal with "buoyancy/heaviness". It just makes things not worth the effort). I actually agree with the earlier statement, that with too much complexity, we'll just end up seeing "Borg cubes" flying around, rather than cool airships. Look at this thread. Sure, some people have made really cool ships. But, based on just the questions asked ("I can't change the controls! The 'done' button is in the way!" - "This mod crashes when I have the Aether installed! Fix it!"), people won't get the whole "buoyancy" thing. Keep it simple. They'll end up making crappy looking ships, simply because they don't want to put forth the effort necessary to get it working better. If they can't even bother to read the first post, then how can you expect them to figure out how to get their ship in the air, when they have to deal with different weight values of blocks? Some people will get it, and there's a fair chance that even the noobs will catch on, eventually. Even so, all the new people will end up with crappy wooden platforms (or wool platforms...), just to get their ship airborne, since they won't bother spending the time to learn to do more.
So, overall, keep it simple. I love this mod, largely because of the freedom it provides, and the simpleness it maintains, and I don't want to see it ruined by making it too complex. Mouser X over and out.
Not exactly. Graphics, and how fast they're rendered, is the graphic card's department. Regarding the Zeppelin mod though, an increase in the ship's block count doesn't change graphical stress. In other words, you can make a ship as big as you want, and it doesn't change how much the graphic card needs to process (so long as the ship doesn't also increase the amount of blocks on the screen). The increase in block count is the CPU's department, because as you increase the number of blocks in your ship, you increase the number of functions needed to be processed (aka, 1 block has... 10... (I made this number up) functions assigned to it. Thus, when you have a ship of size 1024, your CPU now has to go through 10,240 functions). This increases the workload of your CPU, but not the workload of the GPU. Therefore, the reason you experience poor framerates, is because the CPU can't keep up with the GPU. The GPU is done processing, and is waiting on the CPU for more data to process.
An increase in RAM can help, but only to an extent. The CPU is still the bottleneck though, regarding an increase in the number of blocks on your ship. All that said, it is possible that different block types have more functions assigned to them, and could therefore cause the CPU to go slower than "normal" minecraft blocks, because it has to process all of the "normal" minecraft block functions, and then the "mod block" functions on top of that. Whether this is what's going on or not though, I haven't any idea.
All in all, I wouldn't expect the graphics card to be what is causing your slowdown. I suppose it's possible (perhaps the blocks have animations, which the GPU needs to render), but I wouldn't expect that, considering it's largely a CPU problem (running additional blocks), and not a graphical problem. Mouser X over and out.
I agree. A method that rewards some resource investment but also maintains the base ease of use would be optimal. I would love a warp engine or directional thrust blocks or whatever gadgets but, if I want to make a cobblestone flying pirate ship I should be able to. Even the ability to to disable the complex stuff in a config file would work I guess. Kinda like how BuildCraft has it energy framework as optional in the config file.
I do not think that a mod should be designed for the lowest common denominator of users though. If someone is too lazy to read a few pages of this thread or even the first post the mod should not be changed to accommodate such people. There are guides to just about everything having to do with mods. If you want to use mods you need to be ready to learn some basic things.
My 2 cents.
A plan for physics and movement is in the works, we will let you know soonish (ie after 1.8.1 works properly).
On that note, 1.8.1 now compiles and works, but there is a lighting problem, so the ships are pitch black all the time. So we are close, but not done yet.
I agree. I can see how my post could be interpreted that way, but that wasn't my intention. I was using the "lowest common denominator" as an example of why too much complexity is a bad idea. The idea I proposed maintains enough simplicity, that even the "lowest common denominator" can use it, without actually needing to know how to. But, it also adds complexity, so that those who want to... "exercise" their design skills would be allowed to. Maybe not as much as some of the ideas proposed (which are far too complex, in my opinion), but it does require rethinking how you put something together, and possibly changing your methods for acquiring the resources necessary to build your ship. Maybe engines only work when they're at the back of your ship. Maybe there can be different kinds of engines. Different kinds of engines could be used differently. Perhaps some are similar to helicopter blades. They increase the block count (because they point straight up, they increase lift, without increasing thrust), but not the speed. Perhaps there's a "warp drive" that "max speed = 1000", but "max block count = 40%" (both numbers are made up...). By having different engine types, you could even create specialized ships, such as fighters, for example...
Anyway, based on what I've read in this thread so far (I started around page 60 or 70, I think), the biggest limiting factor to an idea like this, is block IDs. It sounds like blakmajik has a limited method to create new blocks. He's attempting to keep all of the Zeppelin's new blocks, under 1 block ID (which I applaud him for!), using the "sub-block" method. Unfortunately, he hasn't figured out a way to store more than 4 blocks under 1 ID. It's certainly possible to store more than 4 blocks (look at wool colors. Even better, look at the "Redpower" mod, or whatever it's called) under 1 ID, but due to the way that data is currently arranged, blakmajik hasn't figured out a way to do it yet. Perhaps (this is speculation) if he can get that hurdle taken care of, he'll introduce new block types (engines, or something), which will allow people to increase the complexity to their liking.
I'm not intending to speak for blakmajik, nor am I saying my idea/proposal is the right one. What I'm saying is, for me, it's acceptable as it is now. However, increased complexity would be welcome, so long as it doesn't sacrifice (aesthetic, for me) creativity and simplicity (too much). Mouser X over and out.
whatnot that want more and more mechanical components in minecraft, ever since Notch introduced redstone and levers.
They want dynamics and interactions and the Zeppelin mod represents the biggest revolution in minecraft when it comes to that.
Not "some" design decision, YOUR design decision.
Yeah you missread, and i could have chosen a better term, but what i meant was...tying the game into some arbitrary upgrade points, health and powerups is LAME and completely negates the point of building contraptions in minecraft.
Thats actually how you described it
Just.. upgrades blocks you can place around you willy nilly for more speed.
Now THATS "Some design decision" and extremely uncreative.
Oh...and the RPG genre is not defined by some silly tropes, but lets leave that for now.
I don't really see much point in your objections, simple Zeppelin will not go away even if it expands further to newer heights.
But for some gamedesign wisdom....freedom..is NOTHING without limitations, challenge and obstacles is what defines what you can do with the freedom the player is given.
Else its just fly around, "button=awsome", until the next cutscene in a bloated narrative...
OK i've officially gone offtopic...
I want these options and components but i don't think majik or Dieval needs to create them all.
They just need create some standard thruster blocks functionality, and then other modders can take over.
Alot of mods are now working together makings their content compatible with eachother.
I can easily see someone from Industrial craft, creating an "anti-grav" uniot or Ion-engines that can levitate and move a zeppilin entity.
Assuming the zeppelin system could support such a huge vessel (and I'm not convinced it's impossible), how much would it cost to make and keep afloat in a system that considers ships 1/30 that size to be giant? Not saying it couldn't be done, I just don't know how you could possibly make it fair for everyone with a single rule set.
But here's the thing no one is saying there should be a single rule-set/config, there is in effect no problem here, zeppelin as it is now will not disappear, nor do i want it to.
New features in this mod does not collide with older ones as long the old mode stays as an option.
Its just how Survival coexist with creativa, its up to the users.
Obviously, hilarity will ensue when you get people building huge trains that ride on single-block-wide rails, but that's par for the course with this mod. :tongue.gif:
starshiplocomotivecastle and try again.