Ars Magica 2 - Ideas
Poll: If I were to implement an API, would you make use of it? (able t
Ended May 15, 2014
Poll: If I were to make the code for this mod available on GitHub, wou
Ended May 15, 2014
Poll: What specific mod integration would you like to see the most?
Ended May 15, 2014
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Curse PremiumWhile I still refuse to give a release date, I have created my to-do list for release. I am not going to put what the specific items are, but I will keep a count updated here to give you a rough idea of progress. This count may go up if the testing finds bugs that I need to fix, but for the most part, the mod has been running stable in testing lately (aside from a couple known bugs). So, without further ado:
Items left on Mith's to-do list before AM2's release:
http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/2028696-ars-magica-2-162164-version-100-updated-oct-12/
Please keep in mind there will also be a brief testing period once this list reaches 0 to make sure there aren't any show-stopping bugs! Thanks!
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Ars Magica has been a lot of fun to work on, but it has had its share of problems.
I think it might be time for a wholesale refactor of some of the core mechanics. So I'm creating this thread as a place to suggest ideas on some of the concepts in the mod. Here's what I have in mind so far. This is by no means set in stone.
My recent attempts to refactor to make the changes have caused more problems than they have solved.
First and foremost is the issue of progression.
Exploration is well and good, but you can't really *aim* for a specific build simply because you never know what you are going to find.
To that end, what I am thinking is to implement some form of skill trees, where you can analyze certain aspects of the world to unlock spell components. Learning from the world around you is, I think, an excellent way to do progression, but to do it in such a way where exploration adds to it. So you could technically advance without needing to explore, but exploration would potentially make it faster.
For example, one might unlock "Projectile Spells" and "Fire Spells", and could then go on to create fire bolt.
Spell components would be linked together in a progression and would have far less randomness than is currently present.
Worldgen would be extraordinarily less important and would be severely reduced (if not done away with altogether). There would be more of a focus on plants, ores, and trees rather than structures. There may still be some here and there though.
Predefined spells would become more of a collection of "effects", which you can piece together to have the desired end result. For example, you might take "Beam" + "Fire Damage" + "Ignition", and that will essentially re-create fire beam as it currently is: A beam that does fire damage and lights targets/blocks on fire.
Naturally, after creating your spell, you would be able to choose its icon from a list.
Affinities would play a larger role.
This was a poll on the Ars Magica forum post, but affinities will shift based on what you cast. Cast a lot of fire spells? You're better at them. They cost less mana and don't fatigue you as much, but you'll have a harder time with water spells.
Magma affinity will be merged with Fire affinity.
Affinities will also give minor bonuses in addition to reducing mana costs/fatigue. The further you are into the affinity, the stronger the bonus.
- Earth affinity will give you a slight permanent increase to mining speed
- Water affinity will make you swim faster and lose breath slower underwater
- Fire affinity would reduce damage you take from fire/lava
- Air affinity will let you fall farther without taking damage, and jump slightly higher
- Lightning will give you a run speed boost
- Plant affinity will cause you to get extra seeds/saplings when harvesting plants
- Ice affinity will cause anything that hits you to be slowed, and allow you to freeze water to ice and lava to cobble/obsidian while sneaking forward
- Life affinity will cause you to regenerate health slightly faster and regardless of hunger levels
- Ender affinity will cause you to have poison resistance and automatically get night vision when you enter a dark area
Should affinities also have some sort of negative effect based on their opposite?This would be limited by what is possible, but that's the goal. These will likely evolve over time.
Magic Level would increase by casting and by Researching more spells and spell types
Progression would feel more natural - as your knowledge of the arcane improves, so does your skill. This would also stop the mod from hogging all the XP in the game. Mana levels would not disappear on death.
The Power system would be changed.
The power system would likely become a second standalone mod that can be run with the main one. They would have interoperability but would be able to be run separately.
Items would not be able to be converted into raw essence anymore, nor fabricated. There's simply too many balance issues. The regular nexus would need to be crafted over a "mana rift" a naturally spawning resource, similar to oil in Buildcraft, and the like.
My main concern is how progression should work. I feel it is the main failing of Ars Magica as it currently stands. I'd love to hear your input on this, and see what we can come up with.
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Curse PremiumAs I said, spells would become a collection of effects that you would unlock in a form of a skill tree rather than spells at random. This would be a form of progression that you could aim for.
Exploration would still play a role. Here's a hypothetical situation:
You're out exploring and you find a strange stone buried in the ground underneath a great pillar. The stone looks valuable, so you take it home to your wizard lab.
Upon placing the stone in a magical circle you have created, it bursts into violent light! As the light clears, where the stone was, an ancient lich now floats.
You duel, back and forth until you finally manage to figure out the lich's weakness, and defeat it, enslaving it.
From the lich, you learn a new spell component: lets say it's Ignition.
Now, when you make spells, you can apply ignition as an effect, and mobs hit by the spell will be lit on fire.
But at the same time, if you wanted to, you could summon that lich in a different way, perhaps by placing different combinations of items in the circle representing the spell you want to get to...or something (still not sure on this part)
But you get what I mean - exploration would still be a completely valid method of progression. It just wouldn't be the *only* one.
These bosses would have a randomized weakness that you would need to figure out (it would be hinted at) in order to beat them.
You're out hunting mana elementals when one of the ones you defeat drops a strange item. It seems to be a shard of some sort. Excited, you go on to fight and defeat more until you have enough shards to make a completed item out of them - this item turns out to be a summoning core, and after analyzing it in your wizard's lab, you can make a spell to summon a mana elemental to fight for you. Or a zombie. Or a skeleton. Etc, etc. - exploration can be used, but isn't required.
As for spells themselves:
The new system allows for much greater customization, with effect chaining and a new way to put them together. As you unlock components and modifiers in the skill tree, you can use them to create your spells.
The spell creation system (or a variant of it) would be used right from the get-go. You might start with the Projectile component and a random Damage type component. You could make a couple simple spells by combining these starter components.
The pre-fab spells that you are familiar with would not be there, and their effects would instead be unlockable, which you could then combine together with more flexibility.
Basic spell structure:
Spell Shape (AoE, Beam, Projectile, etc.)
Spell Effects (Fire Damage, Random Teleport, Recall, etc.)
Spell Modifiers (larger radius, damage increase, etc)
So if you wanted to make an AoE fly - you could. But the fly effect would be deep in the skill tree and would take some time to unlock. But if that's what you wanted, there would be a visible progression path to get there.
I realize this doesn't all make sense - it's tough to explain. I'd rather be able to demonstrate the system working. I think you will find that it is still very unique and brings a sense of adventure to the game, which is something I don't want to lose. I think it offers even more creative possibilities though, and much more flexibility with your spells.
I've made a video showing some of the pre-alpha stuff I have been working on. Lots left to do, but it's coming along nicely!
Learn from all the past trail and errors and aim towards the best ideas for a ultimate Minecraft Magic world.
Iv got some great ideas that would not really change the basics but still add alot to be able to build on.
EDIT: ill fill up a notepad with some brainstorming and give you a full work up with a bit more detail..
Please click through each spoiler and let me know what you think! They're a little wordy, but I'm not suggesting drastic changes, just specific simplifications.
Progression:
I suggest a system wherein each color rune has a certain affinity or type - blue for water, purple for arcane, white for healing, light grey for projectile, etc. - and you insert the runes into a research system in order to research new spells containing that affinity or type. Runes would be made of more expensive material that cobblestone.
Another rune idea: color to denote affinity, material to denote type - thus, a red iron rune for fire projectiles, a red diamond rune for fire beams, a red cobblestone rune for fire with no specific type. This would make research require only one rune.
A third rune idea: color for affinity or type, material for spell "level" - thus, a red iron rune for low-level fire spells, a red gold rune for mid-level fire spells, and a red diamond rune for high-level fire spells.
These two could be combined: a colored rune whose material indicates type must be placed alongside a blank rune whose material indicates spell level.
This research would be measured by some sort of progress bar (perhaps a page that slowly fills with magical writing?) and could be advanced in a number of ways:
1: Consuming spell/recipe scrolls for a large increase. This would solve the problem of what to do with duplicate scrolls. This would also keep the focus on adventuring and exploring.
2: Essence piped in for a slow-but-steady increase.
3: Runes could also be consumed to provide a smaller boost.
4: Magical items could also be consumed for a large boost.
Once the spell is discovered, it would be placed into an inscribing table and placed onto spell parchment using magical ink. Spells found while adventuring would require only this last step - add parchment, recipe, and ink, receive spell.
This system retains many elements of the current mod, but eliminates the use of Reagents in spell research and the system of assembling certain runes in order (which looked cool, but since cobblestone and dye are trivial to obtain, it ended up feeling like busywork)
Power:
I feel like the current failing of the power system is that it has three completely incompatible power sources, one of those power sources only occasionally provides power, the other provides trivial amounts of it, and the third is only a continuous source when combined with other mods. On top of that it destroys its own distribution network if left momentarily unattended.
I say simplify:
One type of Essence. Two types of nexus, Dark and Light. Both are expensive to build. Both passively produce Essence at a steady and identical rate (determined by the value of the capstones, perhaps). The Light Nexus produces extra power when fed items, and the Dark Nexus produces extra power when fed mobs. Unused power inside the nexus or machine causes problems - spawning dangerous monsters, exploding, etc.
The conduit system would no longer build/shed deficit - it's a cool idea, but it ends up overcomplicating things. It ends up being an impediment to enjoyment instead of a challenge. As Sid Meier says, "Complex is good, complicated is bad."
Balance:
WorldGen Puzzles:
This is easily solved if the above system is implemented, however! For each puzzle, a small sign could display the runes needed to research the necessary spell. This would mean the player would be unable to solve the puzzle immediately, but could return home, do some homework, and eventually figure out a solution.
As for the affinity changes, once again you seem to be spot on. There are several issues surrounding affinities in general concerning Ars, and your suggested fix is a great one. I'm a little worried that your passive effects are a little too overpowered, but tweaking how effective they are, and maybe making them consume mana and be able to be turned on and off would solve that issue. Sometimes ice mages might not want to turn all the lava they're sneaking around into obsidian?
As for separating your power system from the rest of the mod, I'm not sure how necessary this is, but I do see the sense in it. Then again, it might be easier to simply combine them again to make the integration that much easier on you and the players. In fact, I see a lot of benefit in using the power systems as part of the progression in the mod. It could work into research and/or spell creation. All in all, I think it's a good idea to remove the essence values from items, as you can do anything if you have enough cobblestone or a great farm. Also, I think there should be more you can do with the power system. It seems a bit lacking, more so than most things in the mod. It has it's few great uses, but overall, seems rather limited. As previously suggested, deficit was probably added as a balance measure, but it is frustrating to work with and requires constant surveillance. Often times, if a single section is removed accidentally, (breaking it to move or adjust it/creeper explosion/etc) it results in a chain reaction. Deficit needs to be reworked or removed.
Great ideas overall, I hope to see it being worked on soon!
ars magica is a good change of pace as is from other magic mods, i hope it stays that way instead of emulating.
24 hours gone again, wasted in futility, welcome to minecraft modding, that is (unfortunately) our community.
(an ode to minecraft modding)
i keep making the same mistake, i think "oh, i've given them a few months, surely it'll be fixed by now" THAT is why i seem to ALWAYS be angry to some of you, my advice is to get the lead out.
there were nice things here, until the mod author threw a tantrum.
I use Thaumcraft alongside Ars Magica and I find Thaumcraft to be a great magic/tech companion to the extremely magic focus Ars Magica.
If Ars Magica went down the tech line then it would be a choice between Ars Magica tech or Thaumcraft tech also when you focus on ores and trees for research and creation that is what Thaumcraft focuses on as well.
I would prefer Ars Magic to remain a very magic heavy mod and leave any sort of tech type stuff to Thaumcraft because currently Thaumcraft and Ars Magica are the only in depth magic mods that focus on two separate areas and yet compliment each other.
So that my opinion take it or leave :).
EDIT: I love the affinity ideas this makes it so you have to really think which path you would like to choose as a mage making a magic server very diverse also help with faction servers
My original idea,
I realise that it might seem like this idea would take place of the Gateway system, but i dont know where/how gateways would work without the essence system, so i think of it as more as a branch off of the same idea tree.
Edit: With your suggestions of "mana rifts" perhaps, this idea would be focused on the idea that you could travel between rifts, that are spawned in the world. ect. ect.
P.S. Awsome mod. completely new minecraft experience, expecially because i play it over LAN with 2-3 other people most of the time. Keep up the good work!
Plus with the current leveling system if your not using ars magica armor as you get higher you can get one shotted to easy and for instance if you have invested in say a full MPS system that could be painfull. Would it be possible that any tech mod's armor give at least 75 percent protection in such a situation?
I do like the idea of the spell staves too maybe some other types of equipment could be added including rings and slots for them for example.
Much like Azanor is refactoring his mod for his 3.1 update, a refactor of Ars Magica could be a lot of fun...
On the flip side, your mod is already one of the very best... It is a shame to change TOO much!
Your knowledge books, your spell creation, your amazing particles... You've done some things that most other modders can only dream of, so take some time to realize that and make sure you don't get away from the core of the mod that has given you so many followers over these months
Incidentally, that is the inspiration Azanor is using in his TC3.1 refactor
Anyways, I just wanted to weigh in on the XP thing. I personally enjoy that aspect of the mod quite a bit, actually. I don't use silly mods like Soul Shards, and setting up Vanilla-style XP farms to feed my Ars power was a great building exercise and my world has much more character thanks to the scale and effort that must go into those types of things. Removing that aspect of it, which strongly encourages what Minecraft is really all about - by which I mean building, of course - and changing it to right clicking X amount of times with a certain spell or whatever doesn't sound like a very good idea to me, personally.
Given that the mod is your baby, no doubt you see shortcomings in it pretty keenly. But as a player, the Research Table solved the only complaint I had about progression; imo, the current, relatively slower pace of learning is great, as it gives you something to do for a long time. The only gripe I have with the mod right now, actually, is that I feel that the worldgen structures could stand to be a bit more dangerous to explore, as there aren't many traps or monsters associated with them, and those that are present don't usually work. Why not have hostile Fire Elementals or Battle Chickens guarding some of the secrets of the arcane?
The idea of all/most spells having to be player created is pretty neat, though. Ofc, there should still be some "examples" and such that you could find, and I would hope that there would be some better hints as to the process than currently exist; something like the Tinker's Construct book that you get when you first start with the mod to explain it.
Regarding affinities, personally, I would much rather have some kind of maintained and exclusive "Fire Aspect" spell or something like that for the different elements, than have to say "I want to mine faster now, time to cast Rock Ball or whatever 50 times to get my affinity up". I understand what you are trying to do there, but I think it would probably end up just being a pain in the buttocks.
Anyways, those are just my thoughts so far. I have greatly enjoyed AM1 so far, so looking forward to where you take it.
And then we'll need this as well.
Speaking of dungeons, the things in the first one were way overdone and obvious. Perhaps you could look into formivores structure generator mod which does a better job at generating structures in a logical way than any other Ive tried. The underground city is especially interesting. One thing that seems to suit minecraft well and has hardly ever been touched on is archeology.
Its really cool how the tech mods out there interact with one another like one big happy family and is almost the only reason I use tech mods at all. Id definitely like to see more of that attitude coming from the magic and adventure side of things.
I personally think that there is always space for improvement, but i fell like no modder should ever complately irradicate any feature of his/her mod, because it is usually a no-return journey that may, or may not work. I suggets that if you want to take out the current essence system, just design a new one, wich is more fun and useful, and slowly start to try and switch over to it. If people like it, they will stop using the other one by themselves and when you eventually end the process of transfering everything into the new system nobody would be using it anymore.
Edit:
From the information you provided in your new post it seems it would be a very nice implementation, BUT i think there are some things you need to be wary of.
1) Placing items into a GUI has lost its WOW factor, and feels constrained. If you were thinking about having a "research circle" i think it should work like a nexus. No GUI, just magic and setting up the items correctly.
Don't mind me. Just messing with some explo.... *BOOOOOOOOOM* ...sives. =)
One thing I've never seen any mod do well before is "exploration". I enjoyed the "exploration" idea that you came up with in the original Ars, but I did think that it got repetitive after a while. After I knew all of the towers and their secrets, they just became boring. As stated above, a reason is needed to fight and explore. After you've done everything possible in Minecraft and all of your mods, what will you do next? Is it possible to recreate the excitement of exploring a Minecraft world for the first time?