@Nerd-Boy: I've had enough of your crap.
1. Adfly ads CANNOT download anything to your computer. They can redirect you to a site where you can download software. But any person should know that iLivid download manager isn't the mod they wanted. AND EVEN IF THEY DID DOWNLOAD IT 99% of the software that I have seen is adware, not malware. The chances of someone actually downloading a virus is MINIMAL. Especially considering a lot of people are switching over to Macs, which REQUIRES you to give an admin password every time you try to install something. And no, software cannot be automatically downloaded and installed from the web browser with out user consent.
TL;DR you can't get a virus from adfly unless you're an absolute moron and you shouldn't be using a computer without supervision anyways.
2. You call Minecraft modders greedy because they ask you to wait through a 5 second ad. Am I greedy because I put ads on my youtube channel? NO! I'm just trying to get some extra money on the side. Is it hurting you? NO!
All your arguments against adfly are stupid and baseless. Do not spread around falsehoods simply because you dislike waiting 5 seconds to download a mod. You're basically trying to rob people of $5.
First off, it's not 10,000 downloads for $5, it's much less than that.
1. True, but if a modder can make money from their mods, why not?
2. Nobody EVER donates.
1. I spent hours making a mod for the community. I'm pretty sure you can give me 5 seconds of your life in return for the mod I made.
2. Maybe so, but it's still money.
3. Lolwut?
4. Yeah, it does link you offsite. Click the back button.
Overall, the modders spent hours making the mod for you, you can spend 5 seconds waiting.
Stop whining about it - if they want to use it, they can and will. It's their mod.
Don't want to wait 5 seconds?
Fine.
Don't download the mod then.
Problem solved.
1.
2. People donate to mods which if you looking to make money one 20$ donation would be equal to 40,000 downloads
3. I'm pretty okay with you using Adfly (That Hunger Games mod was great) but I hate the DIRT TO DIAMONDZ)mods that use it or anything that already doesn't have 7,500 downloads.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A normal man on a normal forum with a fondness of:
They make money off of donations which is a WAY better system than Adfly, if they made hundred dollars off off Adfly they would need millions of downloads.
You do realize that you're trying to tell one of the devs of that mod how he makes his money, don't you?
3. I'm pretty okay with you using Adfly (That Hunger Games mod was great) but I hate the DIRT TO DIAMONDZ)mods that use it or anything that already doesn't have 7,500 downloads.
One problem here is that you can't have two sets of rules, if one modder can use adf.ly then they all can. Another is that we have no way to keep track of downloads on the forum.
Not at all, I appreciate a good debate when it's well argued by both parties in a reasonable manner. I actually rather enjoy the banter it brings, as it does bring up things that would normally not be mentioned by people just shouting back and forth and such. Thank You.
Note: I've hidden my responses in spoilers, as it greatly increased the length of the thread. Just pop them open to take a look. (By long I mean, I scrolled back up and felt awkward about the post length)
Well, I do know that is is possible, however(I work as a computer technician and constantly have people come in with viruses) the majority of the time anything major will be caused by someone clicking something. I've been running MalwareBytes(Personally one of my favourite protection programs, I find Anti-viruses as next to useless in 90% of cases), and probably about 25% of the adf.ly links I've been on have caused it to pop-up saying its blocked a connection. So I do agree with You on that point, It is definitely possible to get malware and viruses without clicking.
I do agree as well, that when it's known that a revenue generating site is sometimes the cause of viruses and malware and the like, that people should not continue to use and endorse it, as that just continues the cycle of people getting their computers messed up. Personally I think the main reason most people use it.. is simply because most people are using it. It just seems like the "most popular" option, and most people just adhere to what they see others doing.
I agree, and I know exactly what You mean. I've been in and around the modding communities on quite a few other games and in none of them are modders given the kind of... well... "power" for lack of a better word... that Minecraft modders get. Many mods in fact get stolen and ripped off if they look to be even halfway decent and uploaded by other people, to try and steal the credit. On top of that, the mods are not generating any revenue at all, as the mod authors truly are doing it for fun.
I don't think that Minecraft Modders are any more "deserving" of making revenue from their mods, however the way the modding scene is setup(My understanding of it anyways) is that it is setup in a way that enables them to use revenue based sites such as Adf.ly for their mods; Many (and/or Most) other games are not set up this way, and as such the modders cannot legally make any money from their mods, or be sued by the company for doing so. I think this is one of the main reasons that this has happened, once one person realized the "loophole" they had, everyone wanted to make a bit of money from their mods. This would constitute as greedy. xD
While I'll concur that this behaviour is unbecoming, I don't neccessarily think that generating revenue is a bad thing all the time. A good example for this might be Eloraam(And I'm sorry if this is actually a poor example, but it's the best I can think of at the moment). She had to take a break from modding in order to make money to maintain what shes been doing(I.E. Living, and whatever else, I assume Movies, Dates, Friends, whatever it may be that all require money). When modders are able to make money(Even if it is a small amount), it allows them to focus more time(It doesn't mean they neccessarily will of course, but You get where teh idea is headed) on making additions, fixes, and updating the mod for us Users. Personally, If I could afford to donate to each Mod that I use frequently, I would donate a minimum of $25 to each, for all the fun and great times I've had with them, but since I can't, I don't mind the 5 second wait for each download I do to get the mod, knowing that it's only giving them 0.0005 or whatever it is in money. I've even downloaded the same mod a few extra times, just because I wanted to show my "appreciation" for the mod, since I can't donate.
I also really like You're stance regarding donation, It's noble. Modders who make mods for fun shouldn't be worried about making money, that's not why people start modding in the first place in most cases. If You enjoy doing something, then do it, and if You can do what You're doing and have people support a noble cause in the world, rather than simply funding Your coffee fund(I love that example by the way ) I think that is a great thing indeed.
So, since I know I tend to kind of ramble a bit, and work around things in odd ways, I should probably sum that up just in case.
TL:DR;
I don't see why modders continue to use a site that is known to cause problems for their users, as that just doesn't really make much sense in all honesty. There are other options with far less likelihood to give Users viruses and Malware.
Minecraft Modders are in their own world in the modding scene compared to other games. I think it's mainly attributed to the way Mojang has gone about letting modders do things, as most other game companies have strict, legally enforced "no revenue generation from mods" rules.
I'm still not against the idea of revenue generation, especially from the perspective of not being able to afford donating to those mods I really enjoy, I am against the idea of using something known to give malware and viruses.
I like it when people do noble things like tell people to donate their money to a charity, rather than to themselves.
I'm actually rather excited to hear Your rebuttal to this.
For point 2: I will agree, For non-techy people, viruses are nightmares(I find myself fixing my families computers at a rate of 1-2 every 2 weeks ). It might not cost anythign but time, but if You do get a virus, it can cost upwards of $60(depending on the pricing in the area around where You are, and how bad it is) to get a virus removed. That's also not counting the days(or even week(It shouldn't take more than a week for a good technician to remove a virus IMO)) that You have to wait while they fix it for You.
For Your Cons:
1: I know I can spend close to 20 minutes digging through ad.fly links when rebuilding custom packs. Mainly due to the fact that You can only load one at a time(I can occasionally get 2, but that limit seems really pointless). For me that's the main killer of the time, is that they won't work at the same time, but rather stack on top of each other repeatedly, forcing You to wait the 5 seconds on each new page whenever You do get to that specific tab. I still don't mind the wait though, as like I said with the donation thing.
2: Many people don't realize that they have malware, and thats always a problem, completely aside from adf.ly in general. Getting any new malware on top of what You might already have can cause things to get really bad, really quickly. There are some really good programs out there for removing malware and viruses, however I won't mention them unless asked to avoid "advertising/plugging/etc".
I actually find this "discussion" between us quite funny as it seems like we are both kind of coming from a similar viewpoint.
I just want to re-affirm I am not against people exploiting their mods to gain revenue. I don't really like it and will not go down that practice myself, but I see why others choose to do and respect their decision. What I dislike is the fact that they are knowngly using a site that could potentially download malware onto their users computers. We should also bare some responsibility for that.
Yes most of the time the malware will not be downloaded because of the ad just displaying but it can happen. The vast majority of ads will require you to click on them first. But one thing I havn't learnt after joining these forums is that many people are quite computer illeterate. These people are the ones who will click these ads. As much as everyone will say "It is their fault because they are stupid people who click the ads" and yes I do agree to a point that they should probably educate themselves a bit, but on the other-hand we as modders are directing them to this site that is known to be dangerous.
I also don't want this to get off topic about my stance on donations (which only came up because someone asked me to put a dontaion button so they could do so)
Also about my "rebuttle", I realise the 1st wasn't really a con, it was just something that I thought would be interesting to know (i.e. how much time collectivly we as a comunity have spent waiting for addfly to tick o
To anyone who says it supports them I'm just saying EVERYONE uses it and even popular mods mostly don't get up to 10,000 dowloads. Unless you know your mod is the NEXT BIG THING don't use it, also viruses can be given to newer people to the forums that think the big word DOWNLOAD leads you to the download.
Personally it's not the case of only if you are X popular you should use it. In my opinion I don't think anyone should be using a source with known sercurity risks for the users, end of story. Why should people be risking their computer's security like that?
I am not against them recieving revenue (even though I personally do not do it) but I don't think they should be doing it at the expense of the security of thousands of peoples computers.
@Nerd-Boy: I've had enough of your crap.
1. Adfly ads CANNOT download anything to your computer. They can redirect you to a site where you can download software. But any person should know that iLivid download manager isn't the mod they wanted. AND EVEN IF THEY DID DOWNLOAD IT 99% of the software that I have seen is adware, not malware. The chances of someone actually downloading a virus is MINIMAL. Especially considering a lot of people are switching over to Macs, which REQUIRES you to give an admin password every time you try to install something. And no, software cannot be automatically downloaded and installed from the web browser with out user consent.
TL;DR you can't get a virus from adfly unless you're an absolute moron and you shouldn't be using a computer without supervision anyways.
Woah dude, this was a civil conversation before you poked your head in, please do not start throwing around name calling.
Please go and get youeself a bit more educated on computer security. Any website CAN download executable code into your memory that can be executed because of security vulnerabilities in the browser or plugin. This is why you should always keep browsers and plugins up to date (why do you think java updates so regularly?)
Yes software can be downloaded and executed just going through the browser. As I said it generally requires the software to exploit vulnrabilities in "web software" but it is entirely possible. Please for the love of god get more educated. Having proper acounts set up make the job of the malware tougher, but many people I have seen automatically have admin privliges constantly. I can't comment on OSX (I wouldn't touch it with a 10' poll) but on linux the main user is generally not the root user (which is required for editing certain files or folders).
And please stop spreading this falsehood that macs are somehow virus/malware proof. The main reason Windows gets virus and macs do not is simply because there are more windows computers targets so most malware is written for them.
2. You call Minecraft modders greedy because they ask you to wait through a 5 second ad. Am I greedy because I put ads on my youtube channel? NO! I'm just trying to get some extra money on the side. Is it hurting you? NO!
All your arguments against adfly are stupid and baseless. Do not spread around falsehoods simply because you dislike waiting 5 seconds to download a mod. You're basically trying to rob people of $5.
I call them greedy because they are directing their faithful users to a known unsafe site for a few measly dollars*.
And how can you tell me why I dislike adfly, I have made my position clear that it is mainly due to security risks not waiting 5 seconds. People should have spent much longer than 5 seconds reading through the documentation of the mod anyway. I don't really download mods, I just make my own for the fun of coding. So stop trying to put words in my mouth.
*I have never used the site so can't comment on how much the actual amount is, but you said about me robbing $5 so you to admit it isn't much.
You do realize that you're trying to tell one of the devs of that mod how he makes his money, don't you?
He probably was paid and didn't know where the exact source was, Adfly couldn't make enough to pay them that they would need advertisements on their website.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A normal man on a normal forum with a fondness of:
@Nerd-Boy: I've had enough of your crap.
1. Adfly ads CANNOT download anything to your computer. AND EVEN IF THEY DID DOWNLOAD IT 99% of the software that I have seen is adware, not malware. The chances of someone actually downloading a virus is MINIMAL. Especially considering a lot of people are switching over to Macs, which REQUIRES you to give an admin password every time you try to install something. And no, software cannot be automatically downloaded and installed from the web browser with out user consent.
TL;DR you can't get a virus from adfly unless you're an absolute moron and you shouldn't be using a computer without supervision anyways.
Slight snippage in the above quote to reduce both size, and retain the main points I have anything to respond to, I can easily add the entire quote back if anyone feels my snipping has in any way changed or altered the original message it was attempting to pass on to us.
I honestly think Nerd-Boy here has pretty much summed up most things I would have said anyways, so I won't beat a dead horse(Unless it's a pinata, and it's filled with goodies), except to agree with him on the fact that You are not required to click anything to get viruses or malware. Malware especially doesn't require anything to be done by the user, as often the malware makes tiny, but significant changes to Your PC. Viruses tend to be "clickables"(I might coin the term if the conversation continues long term ) but that isn't always the case, as Nerd-boy has pretty aptly explained.
You do realize that you're trying to tell one of the devs of that mod how he makes his money, don't you?
I had this feeling that he/she was a mod dev, but now that You've said it I'm actually laughing. xD Not at anyone in particular, but just more at the fact that he so briefly and humbly stated how much is made by his mod, without ever claiming to be involved with it.
I actually find this "discussion" between us quite funny as it seems like we are both kind of coming from a similar viewpoint.
I definitely agree, and this is why I like having civil discussions, often times its actually the case where both people do in fact agree on the same things, but are often "shouting" about the minor details that really are irrelevant in the issue.
one thing I havn't learnt after joining these forums is that many people are quite computer illeterate. These people are the ones who will click these ads. ... we as modders are directing them to this site that is known to be dangerous.
Also about my "rebuttle", I realise the 1st wasn't really a con, it was just something that I thought would be interesting to know (i.e. how much time collectivly we as a comunity have spent waiting for addfly to tick 0.
And please stop spreading this falsehood that macs are somehow virus/malware proof. The main reason Windows gets virus and macs do not is simply because there are more windows computers targets so most malware is written for them.
Also adware is a form of malware.
Again, Slight snipping, Just to avoid multiple quotes and to get to the bits I wanted to talk about. Same with before, if my quoting portrays anything in a bad light, just let me know and I'll change it.
Adware is malware. Yup. If it has Ware in the title, it is a form of malware, as malware is anything that causes Your computer to do things that You do not want it to do. You won't ever get any Malware that fixes Your PC, or does anything remotely useful for You. If it does, it's not malware.
Macs being "anti-virus proof". Again, Have to say I agree(This might become a thing ;)). Macs are NOT virus proof. This is false, simple as that. The reason they don't get viruses in the conditional sense is simply because noone writes a virus for Mac. A Mac does not use a .exe file(At least, not last I checked. It used some odd file type to install programs, similar to a .iso in the sense that it was mounting the program before installing. This could be wrong, feel free to correct this bit in that case), therefore the traditional virus that comes with a .exe file simply will never be able to run on a mac. You could literally download the same virus a Windows PC has, and it simply can't run because Macs don't support that sort of file/the way its written. If on the other hand, a virus were entirely aimed at mac code, You could do some damage. Granted, I don't know what Apple does to prevent that sort of thing, but while it may be extremely difficult, it's never impossible.
Time on Adf.ly. I actually rather enjoyed it, it's an interesting thought at the least.
Computer illileration/Directing at poor sources. Yes, I would agree. I know that even in my family(I've been teaching my parents and siblings how to be
computer safe for years) they still can't go a fortnight without somebody screwing something up. Purposely choosing to send people to a place where You can get Yourself into trouble if You're unfamiliar with the process is a bad idea... I had to thoroughly explain quite a few things to my one sister, as she decided she wanted to get into some of the stuff I do on a regular basis that involves risking my computer to viruses almost daily... She did good for a week, then hit a site She's never seen before and got completely anihilated.
My Poor Example Summed up^^: It doesn't make sense to send people who are less familiar and tech-savvy to places where they risk getting their computers screwed up.
Well, It's 1Am, and I was planning on going to sleep about an hour ago. Have to say I'm still thoroughly enjoying this conversation.
---snip---
My Poor Example Summed up^^: It doesn't make sense to send people who are less familiar and tech-savvy to places where they risk getting their computers screwed up.
Well, It's 1Am, and I was planning on going to sleep about an hour ago. Have to say I'm still thoroughly enjoying this conversation.
Basically agree with all (well the vast majority of) the things you just said. Also very much liked your "summing up" although I would like to add "for a couple of dollars"
*The main thing I don't agree with is the "ware" thing, pretty sure my hardware is not malware
Hey, I'm a modder and I don't have any extra-famous mods, but with less than 5000 visits I have reached the 5,00$ mark and adf.ly paid me at the end of the month (exactly 5,69$). I think adf.ly is the best way to reward the work of the modders, I create mods for fun but the websites that share the link of my mod are currently getting money from the ads, this websites only share the mod and they are earning money from my work! I think this is unfair, so I always upload the mods with adf.ly.
Firstly, congrats for getting to that download milestone.
But I do want to put this to you, how do you feel that you have received less than what I would probably find under my couch by directing thousands of people to a site that is known to host malicious software that will potentially infect their computer?
I don't really understand you last comment, are you complaining about minecraft forum ads now? You do realize they have cost associated with running these forums also? I actually think it is highly hypocritical for you to say that you are aloud to have ads but MCF is not. Besides, you could always hire your own server and host it there
EDIT: Tiny off topic rant
Just went on to the website to look at the rates, and I instantly see them as a crap company anyway.
Cost for those in US is $0.51 vs Australia of $0.38 (approximately 75% less) yet each Australian dollar buys $1.04 US dollars. So IF I ever used it (which would never happen by the way) I would be gaining less revenue per click than someone from the US.
Nerd-boy: No,no,no... I'm not complaining about MCF! I'm complaining about the websites that re-upload your mod! And I know that I don't earn a lot of money, but I'm proud that I can earn money with my work. One last thing, adf.ly doesn't put viruses in you computer, the websites showed in the ads yes, they try to make you donwload malicious software. If you only click to the skip button is 100% safe.
Ahh sorry for misunderstanding, I compleatly agree about those sites.
You should be proud that you have created a mod. But if you did not use adfly you should be just as proud. Base it of downloads and think that you have improved the game of so many people.
Firstly this has already been discussed here, malicious code can still be executed simply by loading the ads. I dont know how this is policed by adfly but the fact is many have been infected this way. Yes the main way of infection will be if a user clicks an ad, but drive by infection is possible and does happen on adfly ads.
Even if we do pretend for a moment that you can only get a virus from clicking an ad. Are you fine with intentionally directing your users to a site that could download malware to the compter of less computer savey people all for a bit over $5?
*The main thing I don't agree with is the "ware" thing, pretty sure my hardware is not malware
Hahahahahaha, You have no idea how hard I just laughed xD
Fair enough, It definitely isn't malware, so I suppose the "ware" thing should have some restrictions... oh well.
I was actually just wondering how much it actually was per click through adf.ly that was generated, as people have been throwing numbers around for a while, and none of them ever seemed accurate. I guess now I know Thanks for sharing that.
So they are paying nearly 3 times the amount they are earning. They are either very bad businessmen and actually gone bankrupt a long time ago, I am missing something or something highly dodgy is going on there. I think I will go grab my tin foil hat and think about this.
Think that this money doesn't exist till you get 5$ and they pay you real money, imagine all the adf.ly users that never reach this mark.
That my dear friend is in no way a sustainable business plan. There is defiantly something dodgy going on with adfly and those numbers are all the proof you need.
They make money off of donations which is a WAY better system than Adfly, if they made hundred dollars off off Adfly they would need millions of downloads.
You seemed to have failed to realize that I'm the creator and lead of the DivineRPG team. And yes, we get millions of downloads. A good portion of the users use adblock, which obviously disables any income from that user, but enough users don't that it doesn't matter. If you want screenshots of the adfly payouts, I'd be happy to supply them. I can very much tell where adfly download income come from, and donations come from.
You seemed to have failed to realize that I'm the creator and lead of the DivineRPG team. And yes, we get millions of downloads. A good portion of the users use adblock, which obviously disables any income from that user, but enough users don't that it doesn't matter. If you want screenshots of the adfly payouts, I'd be happy to supply them. I can very much tell where adfly download income come from, and donations come from.
I would actually love to see the X clicks = Y dollars amount you get if you don't mind. It should add to the discussion about how much money we are talking about for a big mod (and I am still interested about this descrepency as I must still be wearing my tin foil hat)
A couple of questions if you don't mind
Approximatly what proportion of users use adblocking or adfly skipping software?
How Do you feel about this?
Do you blame them for wanting to protect their computer from malicious software on adfly?
Do you also get donations?
What proportion of people donate?
How much do they donate?
How do you feel about intentionally sending your faithful users to a dangerous site which is known to have the potential to download malicious software?
Keeping in mind that the less computer illiterate and people who are unfamiliar with adfly are more likely to click the ads and be infected via the more common "click" method rather than the rarer "driveby instalation"
Do you have some sort of instructions for using adfly (eg click the skip ad button) for those who are unfamiliar with the site?
Do you have an alternate, non-adfly direct download link as well as the adfly link?
Also I would actually like to thank you in advance for answering these questions, it is great having the perspective from a modder who users adfly for one of the "bigger more popular mods".
You seemed to have failed to realize that I'm the creator and lead of the DivineRPG team. And yes, we get millions of downloads. A good portion of the users use adblock, which obviously disables any income from that user, but enough users don't that it doesn't matter. If you want screenshots of the adfly payouts, I'd be happy to supply them. I can very much tell where adfly download income come from, and donations come from.
I don't think it's neccessary, but I know I'd personally love to see those numbers I'm not going to mind either way if You do or don't though. Nerd-boy pretty much sums up anything else I might have wanted to ask. xD
I would actually love to see the X clicks = Y dollars amount you get if you don't mind. It should add to the discussion about how much money we are talking about for a big mod (and I am still interested about this descrepency as I must still be wearing my tin foil hat)
A couple of questions if you don't mind
Approximatly what proportion of users use adblocking or adfly skipping software?
How Do you feel about this?
Do you blame them for wanting to protect their computer from malicious software on adfly?
Do you also get donations?
What proportion of people donate?
How much do they donate?
How do you feel about intentionally sending your faithful users to a dangerous site which is known to have the potential to download malicious software?
Keeping in mind that the less computer illiterate and people who are unfamiliar with adfly are more likely to click the ads and be infected via the more common "click" method rather than the rarer "driveby instalation"
Do you have some sort of instructions for using adfly (eg click the skip ad button) for those who are unfamiliar with the site?
Do you have an alternate, non-adfly direct download link as well as the adfly link?
Also I would actually like to thank you in advance for answering these questions, it is great having the perspective from a modder who users adfly for one of the "bigger more popular mods".
First off, here is the image. Do be aware, the red sections indicate the adfly was NOT posted in the thread at the time, and ONLY a direct download link was enabled (except the last portion was due to an adfly account switch). Also, a good portion of this takes place after the 1.5 update so downloads were low, but never the less I will provide the march screenshots.
1) About 92% of our users have downloaded via other programs (such as launchers) or with adblock. I personally don't care if people use it or not. Yes, we'd make a lot more if people didn't, but it really doesn't bother me. As for malicious files, I never had a person complain about us using an adfly link in the near 16,000 posts in that thread, or my thousands of private messages about DivineRPG, so I really don't see where you are coming from. As long as you have a decent anti-virus, I can't see a problem with it unless you actually go clicking the ads.
2) We do get donations, not as often as you would think. I'd say 1/50,000 people actually have donated to the mod. The donations usually range from $10-$60. However, when we run the official server, the donations are closer to 1/5 at around $10-$20 each.
3) Don't try and make me sound like a criminal, you sound absolutely ridiculous when you say "You deliberately send your faithful users". No, we don't have a tutorial on how to click the massive yellow "SKIP AD" button, because I feel if you can't read that, you've got bigger problems than viruses. Now to throw something at you, if users really are illiterate and cannot read a "SKIP AD" button, how would they read a tutorial? As for people who don't know how to use computers, that isn't my fault. That's like blaming Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome for allowing potentially dangerous advertisements to be on their browsers. It isn't their problem, it isn't our problem. I do care about our fanbase and I am grateful for them, however I won't spoon-feed everybody on the internet. As I've said before, we've never had a complaint to date.
edit:
When we update to 1.5 and get our adfly statistics on one account and back to normal, I'll gladly update the screenshot and you'll see even more what I mean by hundreds / month.
First off, here is the image. Do be aware, the red sections indicate the adfly was NOT posted in the thread at the time, and ONLY a direct download link was enabled (except the last portion was due to an adfly account switch). Also, a good portion of this takes place after the 1.5 update so downloads were low, but never the less I will provide the march screenshots.
--- picture snip ---
Thanks for posting that, also for the explination of the dips. I assume there is generally a sharp rise after you update to the newest minecraft before leveling off again to what looks like the 6isk K view mark?
Slighty off topic
Still interesting to thee the descrepency in that you get $1.68 per 1,000 views and they charge $5.00 to show an add 10,000 times (cpv = $0.50) so it would be interesting to know how they are making their money. Maybe that is some sort of introduction rate.
I also want to point out (mainly to users of mods) that this is nowhere near enough to really make a living (At least where I live). At best it is a very minor supplementary income. The job I am currently in the final interview stages for doing graduate software development consulting pays about $50,000 per year. After taking off tax and student loans this is about $750 a month. The amount that divine RPG makes of adfly links for March would be a bit over what I pay for rent per week (Cost of Living here is quite high).
1) About 92% of our users have downloaded via other programs (such as launchers) or with adblock. I personally don't care if people use it or not. Yes, we'd make a lot more if people didn't, but it really doesn't bother me. As for malicious files, I never had a person complain about us using an adfly link in the near 16,000 posts in that thread, or my thousands of private messages about DivineRPG, so I really don't see where you are coming from. As long as you have a decent anti-virus, I can't see a problem with it unless you actually go clicking the ads.
Are those 92% of users who download using adblock, scripted skippers or launchers included in the statistics above (just generating $0) or do they not count?
As for people complaining to you, they may not. They may be either complaining to adfly directly (you can't do anything but taking down the link) complain here thinking the MCF can do something about it (for some unknown reason) or simply may not know they have been infected.
2) We do get donations, not as often as you would think. I'd say 1/50,000 people actually have donated to the mod. The donations usually range from $10-$60. However, when we run the official server, the donations are closer to 1/5 at around $10-$20 each.
So just as everyone says, the amount made by donations is under that made by adfly. Using those numbers ~ $0.70 cpm so a bit under half assuming an even spread between those ranges given (which I think is a bit unrealistic as I assume it is positivly skewed).
3) Don't try and make me sound like a criminal, you sound absolutely ridiculous when you say "You deliberately send your faithful users". No, we don't have a tutorial on how to click the massive yellow "SKIP AD" button, because I feel if you can't read that, you've got bigger problems than viruses. Now to throw something at you, if users really are illiterate and cannot read a "SKIP AD" button, how would they read a tutorial? As for people who don't know how to use computers, that isn't my fault. That's like blaming Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome for allowing potentially dangerous advertisements to be on their browsers. It isn't their problem, it isn't our problem. I do care about our fanbase and I am grateful for them, however I won't spoon-feed everybody on the internet. As I've said before, we've never had a complaint to date.
edit:
When we update to 1.5 and get our adfly statistics on one account and back to normal, I'll gladly update the screenshot and you'll see even more what I mean by hundreds / month.
My intent was not to make you sound like a criminal. I asked another user the exact same question worded quite similar. On second thought I probably shouldn't have included the "faithful" part, but the rest stands. I am sorry for any offence.
There are many users who are very confused about the whole adfly thing. Some of the ads have a big download button, and someone without experience are sure t click that and not notice the counter which is out of the way in the top right corner. I suspect there is no coencidence the "skip ad" button is placed here, we are generally trained to read things left to right so many people could miss it if they are unfamiliar with the site (note to self, look for some website eye tracking studies)
I do agree with you that it is not our job to spoon feed people, but as you said above " As long as you have a decent anti-virus, I can't see a problem with it unless you actually go clicking the ads". This indicates that you do believe that there is at least some risk from people visiting these sites (also that you may be under the false impression that you must click an ad to get infected). Personally I don't think it is right to knowingly send people to a potentially dangerous site. I realise that I am amoung the minority in this community, but that is how I feel.
For example, if I had a webpage set up in my dropbox that would preform a drive by installation of a trojen to computers with a particular version of a browser (due to a security bug) before downloading the mod, how quickly do you think I would get banned from the forums? I really don't see much difference with this situation than using adfly.
As for updating the statistics, feel free to do it if you want. Personally I just wanted to see ballpark figures anyway and the image above clearly demonstrates it.
P.s. sorry agin for any offence with my previous comment (and with this one). That is not my intent I do not wish for this discussion to devolve into a flame war as it is an issue that probably should be discussed and people can be quite passionate on both sides.
Please go and get youeself a bit more educated on computer security. Any website CAN download executable code into your memory that can be executed because of security vulnerabilities in the browser or plugin. This is why you should always keep browsers and plugins up to date (why do you think java updates so regularly?)
This is a half truth. Any website can download executable code to the computer, providing the browser has a plugin that allows that. Namely Java. Java code is not executed without the consent of the user. Who unless he absolutely 100% trust the site, probably won't click yes. And Adfly uses Flash to display ads, not Java. Flash cannot harm your computer. That's a generally well known fact.
Unless the user clicks and Adfly ad and downloads the product or runs a Java app on that website, security concerns are minimal. I trust that most people are able to notice the skip ad button.
And please stop spreading this falsehood that macs are somehow virus/malware proof. The main reason Windows gets virus and macs do not is simply because there are more windows computers targets so most malware is written for them.
I fail to see when I mentioned that. On Macs it's significantly harder to install viruses, since all applications require an admin to be installed. I know that Macs can get viruses, my Mom installed a virus onto her Mac (a trojan). Please point out exactly what line you think says that in my post. That was not my intention.
Malware
Software that is intended to damage or disable computers and computer systems.
Adware is the common name used to describe software that is given to the user with advertisements embedded in the application. Adware is considered a legitimate alternative offered to consumers who do not wish to pay for software. There are many ad-supported programs, games or utilities that are distributed as adware (or freeware). Today we have a growing number of software developers who offer their goods as "sponsored" freeware (adware) until you pay to register. If you're using legitimate adware, when you stop running the software, the ads should disappear, and you always have the option of disabling the ads by purchasing a registration key.
And how can you tell me why I dislike adfly, I have made my position clear that it is mainly due to security risks not waiting 5 seconds. People should have spent much longer than 5 seconds reading through the documentation of the mod anyway. I don't really download mods, I just make my own for the fun of coding. So stop trying to put words in my mouth.
I'm not even going to reply to this. That was an exaggeration to prove a point.
1. Adfly ads CANNOT download anything to your computer. They can redirect you to a site where you can download software. But any person should know that iLivid download manager isn't the mod they wanted. AND EVEN IF THEY DID DOWNLOAD IT 99% of the software that I have seen is adware, not malware. The chances of someone actually downloading a virus is MINIMAL. Especially considering a lot of people are switching over to Macs, which REQUIRES you to give an admin password every time you try to install something. And no, software cannot be automatically downloaded and installed from the web browser with out user consent.
TL;DR you can't get a virus from adfly unless you're an absolute moron and you shouldn't be using a computer without supervision anyways.
2. You call Minecraft modders greedy because they ask you to wait through a 5 second ad. Am I greedy because I put ads on my youtube channel? NO! I'm just trying to get some extra money on the side. Is it hurting you? NO!
All your arguments against adfly are stupid and baseless. Do not spread around falsehoods simply because you dislike waiting 5 seconds to download a mod. You're basically trying to rob people of $5.
1.
2. People donate to mods which if you looking to make money one 20$ donation would be equal to 40,000 downloads
3. I'm pretty okay with you using Adfly (That Hunger Games mod was great) but I hate the DIRT TO DIAMONDZ)mods that use it or anything that already doesn't have 7,500 downloads.
One problem here is that you can't have two sets of rules, if one modder can use adf.ly then they all can. Another is that we have no way to keep track of downloads on the forum.
I actually find this "discussion" between us quite funny as it seems like we are both kind of coming from a similar viewpoint.
I just want to re-affirm I am not against people exploiting their mods to gain revenue. I don't really like it and will not go down that practice myself, but I see why others choose to do and respect their decision. What I dislike is the fact that they are knowngly using a site that could potentially download malware onto their users computers. We should also bare some responsibility for that.
Yes most of the time the malware will not be downloaded because of the ad just displaying but it can happen. The vast majority of ads will require you to click on them first. But one thing I havn't learnt after joining these forums is that many people are quite computer illeterate. These people are the ones who will click these ads. As much as everyone will say "It is their fault because they are stupid people who click the ads" and yes I do agree to a point that they should probably educate themselves a bit, but on the other-hand we as modders are directing them to this site that is known to be dangerous.
I also don't want this to get off topic about my stance on donations (which only came up because someone asked me to put a dontaion button so they could do so)
Also about my "rebuttle", I realise the 1st wasn't really a con, it was just something that I thought would be interesting to know (i.e. how much time collectivly we as a comunity have spent waiting for addfly to tick o
Personally it's not the case of only if you are X popular you should use it. In my opinion I don't think anyone should be using a source with known sercurity risks for the users, end of story. Why should people be risking their computer's security like that?
I am not against them recieving revenue (even though I personally do not do it) but I don't think they should be doing it at the expense of the security of thousands of peoples computers.
Or use linux
Woah dude, this was a civil conversation before you poked your head in, please do not start throwing around name calling.
Please go and get youeself a bit more educated on computer security. Any website CAN download executable code into your memory that can be executed because of security vulnerabilities in the browser or plugin. This is why you should always keep browsers and plugins up to date (why do you think java updates so regularly?)
Yes software can be downloaded and executed just going through the browser. As I said it generally requires the software to exploit vulnrabilities in "web software" but it is entirely possible. Please for the love of god get more educated. Having proper acounts set up make the job of the malware tougher, but many people I have seen automatically have admin privliges constantly. I can't comment on OSX (I wouldn't touch it with a 10' poll) but on linux the main user is generally not the root user (which is required for editing certain files or folders).
And please stop spreading this falsehood that macs are somehow virus/malware proof. The main reason Windows gets virus and macs do not is simply because there are more windows computers targets so most malware is written for them.
Also adware is a form of malware.
I call them greedy because they are directing their faithful users to a known unsafe site for a few measly dollars*.
And how can you tell me why I dislike adfly, I have made my position clear that it is mainly due to security risks not waiting 5 seconds. People should have spent much longer than 5 seconds reading through the documentation of the mod anyway. I don't really download mods, I just make my own for the fun of coding. So stop trying to put words in my mouth.
*I have never used the site so can't comment on how much the actual amount is, but you said about me robbing $5 so you to admit it isn't much.
He probably was paid and didn't know where the exact source was, Adfly couldn't make enough to pay them that they would need advertisements on their website.
I honestly think Nerd-Boy here has pretty much summed up most things I would have said anyways, so I won't beat a dead horse(Unless it's a pinata, and it's filled with goodies), except to agree with him on the fact that You are not required to click anything to get viruses or malware. Malware especially doesn't require anything to be done by the user, as often the malware makes tiny, but significant changes to Your PC. Viruses tend to be "clickables"(I might coin the term if the conversation continues long term ) but that isn't always the case, as Nerd-boy has pretty aptly explained.
I had this feeling that he/she was a mod dev, but now that You've said it I'm actually laughing. xD Not at anyone in particular, but just more at the fact that he so briefly and humbly stated how much is made by his mod, without ever claiming to be involved with it.
I definitely agree, and this is why I like having civil discussions, often times its actually the case where both people do in fact agree on the same things, but are often "shouting" about the minor details that really are irrelevant in the issue.
Again, Slight snipping, Just to avoid multiple quotes and to get to the bits I wanted to talk about. Same with before, if my quoting portrays anything in a bad light, just let me know and I'll change it.
Adware is malware. Yup. If it has Ware in the title, it is a form of malware, as malware is anything that causes Your computer to do things that You do not want it to do. You won't ever get any Malware that fixes Your PC, or does anything remotely useful for You. If it does, it's not malware.
Macs being "anti-virus proof". Again, Have to say I agree(This might become a thing ;)). Macs are NOT virus proof. This is false, simple as that. The reason they don't get viruses in the conditional sense is simply because noone writes a virus for Mac. A Mac does not use a .exe file(At least, not last I checked. It used some odd file type to install programs, similar to a .iso in the sense that it was mounting the program before installing. This could be wrong, feel free to correct this bit in that case), therefore the traditional virus that comes with a .exe file simply will never be able to run on a mac. You could literally download the same virus a Windows PC has, and it simply can't run because Macs don't support that sort of file/the way its written. If on the other hand, a virus were entirely aimed at mac code, You could do some damage. Granted, I don't know what Apple does to prevent that sort of thing, but while it may be extremely difficult, it's never impossible.
Time on Adf.ly. I actually rather enjoyed it, it's an interesting thought at the least.
Computer illileration/Directing at poor sources. Yes, I would agree. I know that even in my family(I've been teaching my parents and siblings how to be
computer safe for years) they still can't go a fortnight without somebody screwing something up. Purposely choosing to send people to a place where You can get Yourself into trouble if You're unfamiliar with the process is a bad idea... I had to thoroughly explain quite a few things to my one sister, as she decided she wanted to get into some of the stuff I do on a regular basis that involves risking my computer to viruses almost daily... She did good for a week, then hit a site She's never seen before and got completely anihilated.
My Poor Example Summed up^^: It doesn't make sense to send people who are less familiar and tech-savvy to places where they risk getting their computers screwed up.
Well, It's 1Am, and I was planning on going to sleep about an hour ago. Have to say I'm still thoroughly enjoying this conversation.
tl;dr
tl;dr
Basically agree with all (well the vast majority of) the things you just said. Also very much liked your "summing up" although I would like to add "for a couple of dollars"
*The main thing I don't agree with is the "ware" thing, pretty sure my hardware is not malware
Why do you keep spamming your own thread?
Firstly, congrats for getting to that download milestone.
But I do want to put this to you, how do you feel that you have received less than what I would probably find under my couch by directing thousands of people to a site that is known to host malicious software that will potentially infect their computer?
I don't really understand you last comment, are you complaining about minecraft forum ads now? You do realize they have cost associated with running these forums also? I actually think it is highly hypocritical for you to say that you are aloud to have ads but MCF is not. Besides, you could always hire your own server and host it there
EDIT: Tiny off topic rant
Just went on to the website to look at the rates, and I instantly see them as a crap company anyway.
Cost for those in US is $0.51 vs Australia of $0.38 (approximately 75% less) yet each Australian dollar buys $1.04 US dollars. So IF I ever used it (which would never happen by the way) I would be gaining less revenue per click than someone from the US.
Ahh sorry for misunderstanding, I compleatly agree about those sites.
You should be proud that you have created a mod. But if you did not use adfly you should be just as proud. Base it of downloads and think that you have improved the game of so many people.
Firstly this has already been discussed here, malicious code can still be executed simply by loading the ads. I dont know how this is policed by adfly but the fact is many have been infected this way. Yes the main way of infection will be if a user clicks an ad, but drive by infection is possible and does happen on adfly ads.
Even if we do pretend for a moment that you can only get a virus from clicking an ad. Are you fine with intentionally directing your users to a site that could download malware to the compter of less computer savey people all for a bit over $5?
Yeah which means you would be putting even more people at risk, does that make it any better?
Out of curiosity, how many clicks are required for you to get $5.00 (i.e what is your current download count)
Fair enough, It definitely isn't malware, so I suppose the "ware" thing should have some restrictions... oh well.
I was actually just wondering how much it actually was per click through adf.ly that was generated, as people have been throwing numbers around for a while, and none of them ever seemed accurate. I guess now I know Thanks for sharing that.
which means that each showing costs $0.50 per 1000 views but they pay
Which is ~ $1.49 per 1000 clicks.
So they are paying nearly 3 times the amount they are earning. They are either very bad businessmen and actually gone bankrupt a long time ago, I am missing something or something highly dodgy is going on there. I think I will go grab my tin foil hat and think about this.
That my dear friend is in no way a sustainable business plan. There is defiantly something dodgy going on with adfly and those numbers are all the proof you need.
You seemed to have failed to realize that I'm the creator and lead of the DivineRPG team. And yes, we get millions of downloads. A good portion of the users use adblock, which obviously disables any income from that user, but enough users don't that it doesn't matter. If you want screenshots of the adfly payouts, I'd be happy to supply them. I can very much tell where adfly download income come from, and donations come from.
I would actually love to see the X clicks = Y dollars amount you get if you don't mind. It should add to the discussion about how much money we are talking about for a big mod (and I am still interested about this descrepency as I must still be wearing my tin foil hat)
A couple of questions if you don't mind
Also I would actually like to thank you in advance for answering these questions, it is great having the perspective from a modder who users adfly for one of the "bigger more popular mods".
First off, here is the image. Do be aware, the red sections indicate the adfly was NOT posted in the thread at the time, and ONLY a direct download link was enabled (except the last portion was due to an adfly account switch). Also, a good portion of this takes place after the 1.5 update so downloads were low, but never the less I will provide the march screenshots.
1) About 92% of our users have downloaded via other programs (such as launchers) or with adblock. I personally don't care if people use it or not. Yes, we'd make a lot more if people didn't, but it really doesn't bother me. As for malicious files, I never had a person complain about us using an adfly link in the near 16,000 posts in that thread, or my thousands of private messages about DivineRPG, so I really don't see where you are coming from. As long as you have a decent anti-virus, I can't see a problem with it unless you actually go clicking the ads.
2) We do get donations, not as often as you would think. I'd say 1/50,000 people actually have donated to the mod. The donations usually range from $10-$60. However, when we run the official server, the donations are closer to 1/5 at around $10-$20 each.
3) Don't try and make me sound like a criminal, you sound absolutely ridiculous when you say "You deliberately send your faithful users". No, we don't have a tutorial on how to click the massive yellow "SKIP AD" button, because I feel if you can't read that, you've got bigger problems than viruses. Now to throw something at you, if users really are illiterate and cannot read a "SKIP AD" button, how would they read a tutorial? As for people who don't know how to use computers, that isn't my fault. That's like blaming Mozilla Firefox or Google Chrome for allowing potentially dangerous advertisements to be on their browsers. It isn't their problem, it isn't our problem. I do care about our fanbase and I am grateful for them, however I won't spoon-feed everybody on the internet. As I've said before, we've never had a complaint to date.
edit:
When we update to 1.5 and get our adfly statistics on one account and back to normal, I'll gladly update the screenshot and you'll see even more what I mean by hundreds / month.
Thanks for posting that, also for the explination of the dips. I assume there is generally a sharp rise after you update to the newest minecraft before leveling off again to what looks like the 6isk K view mark?
Slighty off topic
Still interesting to thee the descrepency in that you get $1.68 per 1,000 views and they charge $5.00 to show an add 10,000 times (cpv = $0.50) so it would be interesting to know how they are making their money. Maybe that is some sort of introduction rate.
I also want to point out (mainly to users of mods) that this is nowhere near enough to really make a living (At least where I live). At best it is a very minor supplementary income. The job I am currently in the final interview stages for doing graduate software development consulting pays about $50,000 per year. After taking off tax and student loans this is about $750 a month. The amount that divine RPG makes of adfly links for March would be a bit over what I pay for rent per week (Cost of Living here is quite high).
Are those 92% of users who download using adblock, scripted skippers or launchers included in the statistics above (just generating $0) or do they not count?
As for people complaining to you, they may not. They may be either complaining to adfly directly (you can't do anything but taking down the link) complain here thinking the MCF can do something about it (for some unknown reason) or simply may not know they have been infected.
So just as everyone says, the amount made by donations is under that made by adfly. Using those numbers ~ $0.70 cpm so a bit under half assuming an even spread between those ranges given (which I think is a bit unrealistic as I assume it is positivly skewed).
My intent was not to make you sound like a criminal. I asked another user the exact same question worded quite similar. On second thought I probably shouldn't have included the "faithful" part, but the rest stands. I am sorry for any offence.
There are many users who are very confused about the whole adfly thing. Some of the ads have a big download button, and someone without experience are sure t click that and not notice the counter which is out of the way in the top right corner. I suspect there is no coencidence the "skip ad" button is placed here, we are generally trained to read things left to right so many people could miss it if they are unfamiliar with the site (note to self, look for some website eye tracking studies)
I do agree with you that it is not our job to spoon feed people, but as you said above " As long as you have a decent anti-virus, I can't see a problem with it unless you actually go clicking the ads". This indicates that you do believe that there is at least some risk from people visiting these sites (also that you may be under the false impression that you must click an ad to get infected). Personally I don't think it is right to knowingly send people to a potentially dangerous site. I realise that I am amoung the minority in this community, but that is how I feel.
For example, if I had a webpage set up in my dropbox that would preform a drive by installation of a trojen to computers with a particular version of a browser (due to a security bug) before downloading the mod, how quickly do you think I would get banned from the forums? I really don't see much difference with this situation than using adfly.
As for updating the statistics, feel free to do it if you want. Personally I just wanted to see ballpark figures anyway and the image above clearly demonstrates it.
P.s. sorry agin for any offence with my previous comment (and with this one). That is not my intent I do not wish for this discussion to devolve into a flame war as it is an issue that probably should be discussed and people can be quite passionate on both sides.
I apologize for losing my temper. I will try and keep my head.
This is a half truth. Any website can download executable code to the computer, providing the browser has a plugin that allows that. Namely Java. Java code is not executed without the consent of the user. Who unless he absolutely 100% trust the site, probably won't click yes. And Adfly uses Flash to display ads, not Java. Flash cannot harm your computer. That's a generally well known fact.
Unless the user clicks and Adfly ad and downloads the product or runs a Java app on that website, security concerns are minimal. I trust that most people are able to notice the skip ad button.
Just a nitpick but you call me out for being insulting when you insult me yourself.
I fail to see when I mentioned that. On Macs it's significantly harder to install viruses, since all applications require an admin to be installed. I know that Macs can get viruses, my Mom installed a virus onto her Mac (a trojan). Please point out exactly what line you think says that in my post. That was not my intention.
I decided to look up both of their definitions.
As I have demonstrated, Adfly is a safe site. It's perfectly safe for anyone computer literate. Yes $5 isn't much, but hey, it's money.
I'm not even going to reply to this. That was an exaggeration to prove a point.