I doubt they will do the EXACT same approach though. The Bukkit devs said in an interview (can't remember which one) that there was a number of lessons learned from the Bukkit development that they were going to fix when approaching the API. I would have to assume those lessons all involve extensibility and performance.
When I was telling my son about the new features coming up in Forge he gave me a good laugh, "Well it looks like Mojang's plan is working out. They keep putting off the mod api hoping someone will do it for them. Now someone has."
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Location:
owenton
Join Date:
7/31/2012
Posts:
45
Minecraft:
Caideenah
Member Details
For some reason it seems like ever since Minecraft came out on Xbox, everything has been chaos. There has not been a day yet that I haven't seen some part of the Minecraft website crashed for some reason or another. Now there is this big push for Forge that has some praising and others cursing. Could it be that Mojang just wants everyone to write compatible code for the sake of Xbox? Or is this seriously an aim to help the new mod writer to be a team player with its modding?
I can see where so many want to know what the hidden agenda is when you are an online gamer. A whole lot of us have traveled game to game only to get shafted by the people in charge, just because the ones who had the wheel suddenly saw dollar signs. I just hope that this big push is being done for the good of everyone and the love of the game, and not because some corporate big wig wants Minecraft to suck face with Microsoft.
I doubt Xbox has anything to do with it. The way a game has to be coded to make use of Xbox hardware using Java seems to be (from my limited experience with XNA and other languages) a rather different beast than how it is written for the PC despite how modular Java can be. That and Notch and Mojang seem to have been against Microsoft's push toward Windows 8. So highly doubt that Xbox has as much to do with it as seem to imply.
That said. They have mentioned that they want the API to be open enough to be used as a development tool for themselves as well. This makes sense seeing as how many game teams tend to make tools and API's to help them develop their game especially when it is a game that gets extensive updates over time. To then open that up and cater to a modding community is icing on the cake.
@NoOpen First I am not young and I understand completely the concept of "ripoffs", if you copy someones design and use it to take over there business even if it is better you are still ripping them off. Second Your argument makes no sense, it is not easy to modify a mod to make it a non forge mod, you would have to completely rewrite the mod. For someone like me that has 6 to 7 mods that are forge mods that would not be easy. And I have experience in writing programs including C#, C++, and Java. And I have been modding Minecraft for over a year know. So I would conclude that for the average user it would be impossible.
@dmillerw FML does work better in some ways than modloader but the way they achieve that is the problem I have with forge. They download and overwrite any "corrupted" class files. In other words even if forge did not modify the class file if it has been changed by anything other than forge it is overwritten. Now I can not prove this and the people on the forge forums deny it but they can not explain why the log file has the following lines in it when I installed this mod in the jar file.
2012-09-27 01:57:13 [FINE] [ForgeModLoader] Enabling mod Mystcraft
2012-09-27 01:57:13 [FINE] [ForgeModLoader] Activating mod Mystcraft
I also have single-player commands installed and it does not appear in the log and it is not loaded. Even if I put it in the jar file after forge. and overwrite any class files. I can fix this once single player commands releases its code for 1.3.2 by just combining the changes in the class files so I would have a forge compatible version of single player commands. Or I can wait for the FTB team to do it so they can use worldedit on there maps.
Also, I am not the first to say this FlowerChild was working on forge and seen that this is what they where aiming towards and that is one of the reasons why he left forge and decided to make Better than Wolves a non forge compatible mod. If you don't believe me go look it up.
I do not mean to be rude but your either extremely stupid or lying about your knowledge.
For those who don't know, forge has mod loader built into it so it didn't rip it off... also forge has many other things im sure most of you dont even know about, so this thread is stupid because the creator probly doesnt even know what forge is about, the creator of this thread will also be dumb founded when he finds out most mods will use forge sooner or later because of what it offers.
I just wanted to rant about forge for a minute and see how many of you out there agree. Forge has basically stolen Modloader's market and they are removing jar mods, I think they have gone to far! Basically they are saying if you don't use forge you can not mod Minecraft. I just hope that Mojang stamps out forge with the 1.4 update although I get the feeling that 1.4 is going to be like forge and remove base class mods also. But at least with Mojang it is there game, with forge they have no right to deny me the ability to mod Minecraft.
And for those that say well don't use forge then, I say they have put themselves in place with the best mods so what choice do I have.
forge isnt denying you the ability to make mods. forge is a API, meaning it assists you in makeing mods. you can make mods without forge.
While I don't agree, I do agree on the whole forge topic. Basically whenever I see forge as a requirement, I skip the mod. Not that there's anything wrong with forge itself, but the installation of the whole has broken and kept me from playing minecraft for well over a year. I now use magiclauncher, and forge isn't compatible with that, or most of my favorite mods like rei's minimap. I don't understand why people can't just use modloader. Why the sudden change to forge?
AHEM,
1 most LARGE mods will use forge cause it adds many many block ids.
2 if you use mod loader you get 10 block ids to work with (meaning you cant get many mods).
3 ill name LAGRE mods that use forge: IC2, buildcraft, weapons mod, twilight forest, scp mod, weapons mod, ect
3 most modloader mods work for forge any way
4 and forge isnt holding a gun to you head and makeing you use forge so STOP WINEING ABOUT IT.
5 and forge FTW
Wow, six pages of responses and that's the only one you acknowledge?
I just wanted to let things play out for a while but this guy is getting on my nerves saying you can easily convert a mod to not use forge.
I am not apposed to forge entirely I just feel they have made it harder to mod Minecraft with there latest developments. And when you get response like "they can do that without modding the jar" and "tell them to move to forge". I am getting worried that any non forge mod will be left behind and that will be a sad day for the Minecraft community. As of right now there are very few non forge mod that will work with forge. This was not the case for 1.2.5, there were a few mods that I could live without or make separate instances for that did not work with forge. All I can hope is that either every mod starts using forge or forge is overtaken by the modding API in 1.4.
The bottom line is I want to use all the mods for Minecraft that I like not just some of them, is that to much to ask!
I just wanted to let things play out for a while but this guy is getting on my nerves saying you can easily convert a mod to not use forge.
I am not apposed to forge entirely I just feel they have made it harder to mod Minecraft with there latest developments. And when you get response like "they can do that without modding the jar" and "tell them to move to forge". I am getting worried that any non forge mod will be left behind and that will be a sad day for the Minecraft community. As of right now there are very few non forge mod that will work with forge. This was not the case for 1.2.5, there were a few mods that I could live without or make separate instances for that did not work with forge. All I can hope is that either every mod starts using forge or forge is overtaken by the modding API in 1.4.
The bottom line is I want to use all the mods for Minecraft that I like not just some of them, is that to much to ask!
Can you really blame them for moving on to a more efficient mod loading process? Now I have looked into the mod loading process of FML and it is much better then that of Modloader. The fact is, forge does not make it harder to mod minecraft, in fact it makes it far easier because of both the hooks it provides and the better mod loading process as opposed to modloader. Furthermore, Forge is actively developed, which is more than can be said about modloader (by actively developed I mean adding hooks/fixing bugs/releasing new updated versions). From what I can tell modloader is only released once per minecraft release, being only a compatability release (i.e. nothing added).
As for Forge being overtaken by modding API, firstly the modding API will not be included in 1.4 as Majong have pushed it back again (going on 18 months now yay!). Furthermore, the developers of Forge have said that they will still be around mainly to fill any gaps that the offical API leave (which will likely be vast)
The fact is, forge does not make it harder to mod minecraft, in fact it makes it far easier because of both the hooks it provides and the better mod loading process as opposed to modloader.
That is true for forge mods, but any mods that does not use forge are harmed by those hooks because it causes more conflicts with forge. That is the reason I said "All I can hope is that either every mod starts using forge or forge is overtaken by the modding API in 1.4". But sense you say the API has been pushed back again the only hope left is that every mod uses forge. And lets face it that just won't happen because of the extensive recoding of some mod to use the forge hooks instead of modifying the Minecraft classes.
Speedyrv, you do realize that one of the original points of ModLoader was to move mods out of the jar, right? As time has passed and mods have become more complex ModLoader hasn't kept up and has forced mod authors to fall back on base class edits. Forge, on the other hand, has evolved with the demand of mod authors. I can cite two examples here, ExtraBiomesXL and Mystcraft. EBXL used to be a jar mod because it had to be. It was impossible to implement it's features without editing base classes. This also had the effect of making it incompatible with any other biome type mod. Through the flexible and open nature of Forge changes were able to be implemented in Forge to allow the mod to stop editing base classes and be moved into the mods folder and be more compatible with other biome mods. Mystcraft is another highly complex mod that ran into compatibility issues because of so many base class edits. Through the hard work of both the mod author and the Forge team many hooks have been added and, as of the next update of the mod, it will be able to be placed in the mods folder.
You complain about Forge causing conflicts with non-Forge mods but I have yet to see any incompatibilities with properly coded ModLoader mods. It is only mods that edit base classes that have a problem. That's the key right there, mods that edit base classes. Want to run those two mods that both add cool swords to the game? Too bad, they both edit the same classes so they can't work together. This is a practice that needs to be stamped out. The MC modding community has moved past hacking the game's files to add a block or item to the game and into the realm of requiring not only real coding but compatibility and cooperation between different mods. That is the path that ModLoader set us on and Forge is continuing.
I'm surprised the OP actually came back to join this thread of mostly hating (I'm guilty too). I mean, it would have been easy enough to just let the thread eventually die without bothering.
Of course this might be one of those threads that just lives way longer than it should (already has?).
Why would you ever want a mod that modify's base class's?!?!!?
Jar modding must not die. There are some mods that change the way some base elements of the game work. For example, my Renewable Resources mod makes an addition to the cauldron, changes bonemeal on grass in a way that doesn't seem to be possible with Forge, makes a slight change to lava, adds tons of features to stone bricks, etc. Without editing base classes, there's really no easy way these things could be done.
Jar modding must not die. There are some mods that change the way some base elements of the game work. For example, my Renewable Resources mod makes an addition to the cauldron, changes bonemeal on grass in a way that doesn't seem to be possible with Forge, makes a slight change to lava, adds tons of features to stone bricks, etc. Without editing base classes, there's really no easy way these things could be done.
Not saying that you haven't, but have you tried to get the hooks you need into Forge?
Not saying that you haven't, but have you tried to get the hooks you need into Forge?
Yes, but the problem is, the way I changed bonemeal is that it changes the tall grass and flower growth so that you get different types of tall grass (I mean different metadatas) with random chances depending on the biome. Forge seems to have it so that you simply add a type of plant with a certain weight used in determining which random plant to grow.
Yes, but the problem is, the way I changed bonemeal is that it changes the tall grass and flower growth so that you get different types of tall grass (I mean different metadatas) with random chances depending on the biome. Forge seems to have it so that you simply add a type of plant with a certain weight used in determining which random plant to grow.
I can see where so many want to know what the hidden agenda is when you are an online gamer. A whole lot of us have traveled game to game only to get shafted by the people in charge, just because the ones who had the wheel suddenly saw dollar signs. I just hope that this big push is being done for the good of everyone and the love of the game, and not because some corporate big wig wants Minecraft to suck face with Microsoft.
That said. They have mentioned that they want the API to be open enough to be used as a development tool for themselves as well. This makes sense seeing as how many game teams tend to make tools and API's to help them develop their game especially when it is a game that gets extensive updates over time. To then open that up and cater to a modding community is icing on the cake.
I do not mean to be rude but your either extremely stupid or lying about your knowledge.
Challenge accepted! I will openly admit that you are smarter than me if you can pm me a working version of IC2 without forge.
forge isnt denying you the ability to make mods. forge is a API, meaning it assists you in makeing mods. you can make mods without forge.
Game designer, forum stalker.
AHEM,
1 most LARGE mods will use forge cause it adds many many block ids.
2 if you use mod loader you get 10 block ids to work with (meaning you cant get many mods).
3 ill name LAGRE mods that use forge: IC2, buildcraft, weapons mod, twilight forest, scp mod, weapons mod, ect
3 most modloader mods work for forge any way
4 and forge isnt holding a gun to you head and makeing you use forge so STOP WINEING ABOUT IT.
5 and forge FTW
Game designer, forum stalker.
I just wanted to let things play out for a while but this guy is getting on my nerves saying you can easily convert a mod to not use forge.
I am not apposed to forge entirely I just feel they have made it harder to mod Minecraft with there latest developments. And when you get response like "they can do that without modding the jar" and "tell them to move to forge". I am getting worried that any non forge mod will be left behind and that will be a sad day for the Minecraft community. As of right now there are very few non forge mod that will work with forge. This was not the case for 1.2.5, there were a few mods that I could live without or make separate instances for that did not work with forge. All I can hope is that either every mod starts using forge or forge is overtaken by the modding API in 1.4.
The bottom line is I want to use all the mods for Minecraft that I like not just some of them, is that to much to ask!
Can you really blame them for moving on to a more efficient mod loading process? Now I have looked into the mod loading process of FML and it is much better then that of Modloader. The fact is, forge does not make it harder to mod minecraft, in fact it makes it far easier because of both the hooks it provides and the better mod loading process as opposed to modloader. Furthermore, Forge is actively developed, which is more than can be said about modloader (by actively developed I mean adding hooks/fixing bugs/releasing new updated versions). From what I can tell modloader is only released once per minecraft release, being only a compatability release (i.e. nothing added).
As for Forge being overtaken by modding API, firstly the modding API will not be included in 1.4 as Majong have pushed it back again (going on 18 months now yay!). Furthermore, the developers of Forge have said that they will still be around mainly to fill any gaps that the offical API leave (which will likely be vast)
That is true for forge mods, but any mods that does not use forge are harmed by those hooks because it causes more conflicts with forge. That is the reason I said "All I can hope is that either every mod starts using forge or forge is overtaken by the modding API in 1.4". But sense you say the API has been pushed back again the only hope left is that every mod uses forge. And lets face it that just won't happen because of the extensive recoding of some mod to use the forge hooks instead of modifying the Minecraft classes.
You complain about Forge causing conflicts with non-Forge mods but I have yet to see any incompatibilities with properly coded ModLoader mods. It is only mods that edit base classes that have a problem. That's the key right there, mods that edit base classes. Want to run those two mods that both add cool swords to the game? Too bad, they both edit the same classes so they can't work together. This is a practice that needs to be stamped out. The MC modding community has moved past hacking the game's files to add a block or item to the game and into the realm of requiring not only real coding but compatibility and cooperation between different mods. That is the path that ModLoader set us on and Forge is continuing.
Of course this might be one of those threads that just lives way longer than it should (already has?).
Jar modding must not die. There are some mods that change the way some base elements of the game work. For example, my Renewable Resources mod makes an addition to the cauldron, changes bonemeal on grass in a way that doesn't seem to be possible with Forge, makes a slight change to lava, adds tons of features to stone bricks, etc. Without editing base classes, there's really no easy way these things could be done.
Yes, but the problem is, the way I changed bonemeal is that it changes the tall grass and flower growth so that you get different types of tall grass (I mean different metadatas) with random chances depending on the biome. Forge seems to have it so that you simply add a type of plant with a certain weight used in determining which random plant to grow.
I like that change to bonemeal, btw, sounds cool.
Ah, thanks. I'll get around to that soon.