I like this idea. The handsigns being, of course, somewhat specific to the focus being used. Pulling 'fire' to yourself being different from say, pulling 'water' to yourself. It's one thing to douse yourself if you're on fire, that's useful... covering yourself in fire, not so much. But giving yourself a 'burning touch', now that has practical use!
And of course, you could have 'levels' of handsign. Like, novice, journeyman, and master. A novice handsign 'works', but not with some caveats and a hiccup every so often; you need to either practice or research to get up to journeyman, and more of the same for mastery. I think that could be a really neat mechanic; you actually have to USE the focus and handsign, accept the negative effect of, say, the fire focus occasionally setting you or blocks around you on fire while you're practicing. As opposed to simply 'knowing' the handsign because you read the proper notes.
Exactly! And the different levels of handsign proficiency would allow more complex effects. A novice handsign with a shock focus could only deliver a small zap that has a chance to rebound and ground the charge (i.e. in you) but a journeyman level handsign can chain the shock between targets, and masters can even coax the elixtricity into a ball that electrifies the ground. And obviously, the different handsigns will interact with the different foci in reasonable ways. Using a self oriented handsign with the fire focus might seem dangerous but perhaps it will give you a fiery aura or the ability to walk through flames unscathed.
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I am not active a whole lot on these forums, however I do watch the mods through development. First off, the new features look like they are going to add a lot to this mod, and I wish the continued luck towards development. I am wondering, however, (this might be a stupid question) if there is going to be a way to generate Thaumcraft generation in pre-existing worlds, similar to the feature in 1.7.10. The reason I ask is because I have a mod pack assembled for a server I run, and I am wondering If I can get to work on the world now, or if I will have to wait patiently for the mod to go into full release?
I think that a gauntlet would be a good workaround for the problem that is currently presenting itself. If you want to make thaumcraft take a bit more resources to get into, you might even make the gauntlet require an anvil to craft/make it functional in some way. A TC Anvil might open up some different crafting opportunities as well. (Such as for armor, tools, weapons.)
Edit: Just saw your video from a month ago, the dust you've introduced to (Salis Mundus) TC could also make some new/different mechanics with crafting metals. It could be the initial component to make a TC Anvil for metallurgy. And used as a flux component in crafting to manipulate metals (much like flux is used to keep surfaces from oxidizing, in terms of "lore" the Salis Mundus could be used as a "flux" component for some magical reason, whether to simply imbue metals/tools with magical properties, protect the metals from taint, or something else. Just spit-balling here really.
Regardless; I support the idea of a gauntlet, but as other's have already mentioned, I just don't want it to seem too techy. Unless it ends up looking like the Infinity gauntlet, in which case, by all means... I'll happily be Thanos.
Seems like this is slowly drifting towards customization in the realm of Ars Magica, which would be great. Keybind to switch to different "gestures" or targets, such as self or beam or projectile as suggested before. Or maybe actual gestures like Witchery's Mystic Branch?
Also, if the Crimson Cult is staying with us, what if they still used wands? Thaumaturges may have moved on to the more powerful Arcane Gauntlets, but the cultists aren't exactly the sharpest or the most innovative (channelling those eldritch portals for nearly forever). Maybe they use wands still, which would drop when they die, and the focus could be extracted somehow for Gauntlet use? Like getting a Pech's Curse focus from the pechs, but the wand itself is near-useless to us now. Also I really want that homing electric fireball spell that they use.
Why not? If you don't want complex spells, just don't use em.
Redundant or unused features make development altogether harder and more time-consuming. It's best to measure demand for certain things alongside the complexity of implementing them, and how they work thematically (Thaumcraft being all about tonal/thematic consistency).
I personally think that hand-sign type things would be best as something late/endgame, more 'symbol of power', eldritch sort of a thing than just waving your hand around. Foci are a better way to go for actual spellcasting, as is upgrading them for variety-- while Witchery's wand-gestures were relllatively robust in what you could do, they were also mercilessly finicky to do with any speed or regularity since they were step-by-step, specific combinations. Challenge in Thaumcraft has, if I reclal, never been about getting the controls to behave properly.
Redundant or unused features make development altogether harder and more time-consuming. It's best to measure demand for certain things alongside the complexity of implementing them, and how they work thematically (Thaumcraft being all about tonal/thematic consistency).
I personally think that hand-sign type things would be best as something late/endgame, more 'symbol of power', eldritch sort of a thing than just waving your hand around. Foci are a better way to go for actual spellcasting, as is upgrading them for variety-- while Witchery's wand-gestures were relllatively robust in what you could do, they were also mercilessly finicky to do with any speed or regularity since they were step-by-step, specific combinations. Challenge in Thaumcraft has, if I reclal, never been about getting the controls to behave properly.
The "handsign" concept really means "hotkey that changes between utility and attack" and nothing concernin actual gestures or any unnecessary complexity, it'd simply be a way to allow the player to use the same foci in many different ways, instead of having an inventory full of the same foci with a bunch of different irreversible upgrades. In terms of upgrading it's really no different, but just rather than having a chain lightning focus and a ball lightning focus, it's the same shock focus that you toggle between functions using the "handsign".
Seems like this is slowly drifting towards customization in the realm of Ars Magica, which would be great. Keybind to switch to different "gestures" or targets, such as self or beam or projectile as suggested before. Or maybe actual gestures like Witchery's Mystic Branch?
Also, if the Crimson Cult is staying with us, what if they still used wands? Thaumaturges may have moved on to the more powerful Arcane Gauntlets, but the cultists aren't exactly the sharpest or the most innovative (channelling those eldritch portals for nearly forever). Maybe they use wands still, which would drop when they die, and the focus could be extracted somehow for Gauntlet use? Like getting a Pech's Curse focus from the pechs, but the wand itself is near-useless to us now. Also I really want that homing electric fireball spell that they use.
It would make sense for the Crimson cult to be a little stuck in their ways and not be as advanced as the cutting edge thaumaturge. I also would like to be able to take advantage of their magic and it seems fitting that if we can steal foci off a pech we could take one from a crimson cultist as well.
The golems got a big revamp in the last update in terms of versatility and customization, so maybe the focus system is next in line for a renaissance. I really enjoyed ars magica 2, but thaumcraft isn't ars magica, however I would think that a good thaumaturge, being the experimenters that they are, would want to expand their arsenal and magical capabilities beyond a handful of very specialized foci.
It would make sense for the Crimson cult to be a little stuck in their ways and not be as advanced as the cutting edge thaumaturge. I also would like to be able to take advantage of their magic and it seems fitting that if we can steal foci off a pech we could take one from a crimson cultist as well.
The golems got a big revamp in the last update in terms of versatility and customization, so maybe the focus system is next in line for a renaissance. I really enjoyed ars magica 2, but thaumcraft isn't ars magica, however I would think that a good thaumaturge, being the experimenters that they are, would want to expand their arsenal and magical capabilities beyond a handful of very specialized foci.
Spell customization is something that other big mods already do,(Ars Magica 2 and Blood magic), I personally don't feel as thought we need a hundred different foci.
Spell customization is something that other big mods already do,(Ars Magica 2 and Blood magic), I personally don't feel as thought we need a hundred different foci.
It's not a 100 different foci, in fact it's actually the same amount of foci, just with more ways to use them.
No that's not what their thinking of. More like casting modes. Take the fire focus. Currently it sprays fire in a cone, but if you were to use a casting mode to use the focus on yourself you could gain a fire immunity buff or a lob mode where you throw a fireball that explodes on contact. Different casting modes produce different effects.
No that's not what their thinking of. More like casting modes. Take the fire focus. Currently it sprays fire in a cone, but if you were to use a casting mode to use the focus on yourself you could gain a fire immunity buff or a lob mode where you throw a fireball that explodes on contact. Different casting modes produce different effects.
This IS how the current upgrade system works. The basic fire focus is a short range cone, but it can become a fireball, or firebeam focus.
This IS how the current upgrade system works. The basic fire focus is a short range cone, but it can become a fireball, or firebeam focus.
Yes I know that, but the idea is that you can change how the focus works by changing the handsign used to cast it. Not upgrading the focus so that it can only do one thing. The way the current system works is that if I want the fire focus to produce a fireball I have to upgrade it and now it can only make a fireball so if I want the fire beam or basic focus function I have to create another focus and carry it around. In this proposed system it is one focus with a variety of modes.
I was also thinking that in this new system that the focal manipulator could still have a purpose. The manipulator could still be used to upgrade the potency, efficiency, and range of the focus although I'm not sure how range could be changed to work for cast on self things. Maybe range on self cast means more duration?
Yes I know that, but the idea is that you can change how the focus works by changing the handsign used to cast it. Not upgrading the focus so that it can only do one thing. The way the current system works is that if I want the fire focus to produce a fireball I have to upgrade it and now it can only make a fireball so if I want the fire beam or basic focus function I have to create another focus and carry it around. In this proposed system it is one focus with a variety of modes.
I was also thinking that in this new system that the focal manipulator could still have a purpose. The manipulator could still be used to upgrade the potency, efficiency, and range of the focus although I'm not sure how range could be changed to work for cast on self things. Maybe range on self cast means more duration?
You can carry different versions of the same focus with you, you know.
But I like the idea of channeling, still and what I think would be very useful, would be if in the focus select UI foci of the same kind would be grouped together in a smaller circle and duplicate foci would not appear. That would not give any more power to foci, but would still make it a lot faster to switch to the ones you need.
Also maybe an inscribing function to clone the augmentations of one focus to another for a little cheaper than making a new one. I could put this to good use, but it's just a random suggestion, no priority.
You can carry different versions of the same focus with you, you know.
But I like the idea of channeling, still and what I think would be very useful, would be if in the focus select UI foci of the same kind would be grouped together in a smaller circle and duplicate foci would not appear. That would not give any more power to foci, but would still make it a lot faster to switch to the ones you need.
Also maybe an inscribing function to clone the augmentations of one focus to another for a little cheaper than making a new one. I could put this to good use, but it's just a random suggestion, no priority.
you can carry different versions of the same focus, but this system would make it so that you could take advantage of all the possible functionalities of a focus type using only one focus. What self respecting thaumaturge would carry more than one thing if they didn't have to...
Actually, I am wondering if, lore-wise, each new version of Thaumcraft brought with it new insights in what reality truly is and thus kind of tells us that the previous version of Thaumcraft had it wrong to an extent.
Because it would actually make sense in a chronological story that the Crimson Cult would at some moment obtain more advanced gear themselves. Gear that the player may already have discovered in an earlier version of Thaumcraft.
@Azanor, but please do not make the spell customization as complex as Ars Magica's.
So maybe thaumcraft versions are just the past, but the player/crimson cult/some mad scientist/a natural phenomenon did something weird that broke magic and each time it fixed itself into a different form?
you can carry different versions of the same focus, but this system would make it so that you could take advantage of all the possible functionalities of a focus type using only one focus. What self respecting thaumaturge would carry more than one thing if they didn't have to...
It's like having a box of tools for the job, or one gigantic swiss army knife with everything you could need.
Having more than one thing allows it to be more specialized.
you can carry different versions of the same focus, but this system would make it so that you could take advantage of all the possible functionalities of a focus type using only one focus. What self respecting thaumaturge would carry more than one thing if they didn't have to...
I fele like we should have to do extra work to get this level of modularity.
Exactly! And the different levels of handsign proficiency would allow more complex effects. A novice handsign with a shock focus could only deliver a small zap that has a chance to rebound and ground the charge (i.e. in you) but a journeyman level handsign can chain the shock between targets, and masters can even coax the elixtricity into a ball that electrifies the ground. And obviously, the different handsigns will interact with the different foci in reasonable ways. Using a self oriented handsign with the fire focus might seem dangerous but perhaps it will give you a fiery aura or the ability to walk through flames unscathed.
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Curse PremiumI am not active a whole lot on these forums, however I do watch the mods through development. First off, the new features look like they are going to add a lot to this mod, and I wish the continued luck towards development. I am wondering, however, (this might be a stupid question) if there is going to be a way to generate Thaumcraft generation in pre-existing worlds, similar to the feature in 1.7.10. The reason I ask is because I have a mod pack assembled for a server I run, and I am wondering If I can get to work on the world now, or if I will have to wait patiently for the mod to go into full release?
I think that a gauntlet would be a good workaround for the problem that is currently presenting itself. If you want to make thaumcraft take a bit more resources to get into, you might even make the gauntlet require an anvil to craft/make it functional in some way. A TC Anvil might open up some different crafting opportunities as well. (Such as for armor, tools, weapons.)
Edit: Just saw your video from a month ago, the dust you've introduced to (Salis Mundus) TC could also make some new/different mechanics with crafting metals. It could be the initial component to make a TC Anvil for metallurgy. And used as a flux component in crafting to manipulate metals (much like flux is used to keep surfaces from oxidizing, in terms of "lore" the Salis Mundus could be used as a "flux" component for some magical reason, whether to simply imbue metals/tools with magical properties, protect the metals from taint, or something else. Just spit-balling here really.
Regardless; I support the idea of a gauntlet, but as other's have already mentioned, I just don't want it to seem too techy. Unless it ends up looking like the Infinity gauntlet, in which case, by all means... I'll happily be Thanos.
Seems like this is slowly drifting towards customization in the realm of Ars Magica, which would be great. Keybind to switch to different "gestures" or targets, such as self or beam or projectile as suggested before. Or maybe actual gestures like Witchery's Mystic Branch?
Also, if the Crimson Cult is staying with us, what if they still used wands? Thaumaturges may have moved on to the more powerful Arcane Gauntlets, but the cultists aren't exactly the sharpest or the most innovative (channelling those eldritch portals for nearly forever). Maybe they use wands still, which would drop when they die, and the focus could be extracted somehow for Gauntlet use? Like getting a Pech's Curse focus from the pechs, but the wand itself is near-useless to us now. Also I really want that homing electric fireball spell that they use.
~~~~~~~~
Fall into the hands of sorrow
Drawn by the darkest bay
Walk into the pit of silence
I am the one calling your name
~~~~~~~~
Why not? If you don't want complex spells, just don't use em.
Redundant or unused features make development altogether harder and more time-consuming. It's best to measure demand for certain things alongside the complexity of implementing them, and how they work thematically (Thaumcraft being all about tonal/thematic consistency).
I personally think that hand-sign type things would be best as something late/endgame, more 'symbol of power', eldritch sort of a thing than just waving your hand around. Foci are a better way to go for actual spellcasting, as is upgrading them for variety-- while Witchery's wand-gestures were relllatively robust in what you could do, they were also mercilessly finicky to do with any speed or regularity since they were step-by-step, specific combinations. Challenge in Thaumcraft has, if I reclal, never been about getting the controls to behave properly.
The "handsign" concept really means "hotkey that changes between utility and attack" and nothing concernin actual gestures or any unnecessary complexity, it'd simply be a way to allow the player to use the same foci in many different ways, instead of having an inventory full of the same foci with a bunch of different irreversible upgrades. In terms of upgrading it's really no different, but just rather than having a chain lightning focus and a ball lightning focus, it's the same shock focus that you toggle between functions using the "handsign".
It would make sense for the Crimson cult to be a little stuck in their ways and not be as advanced as the cutting edge thaumaturge. I also would like to be able to take advantage of their magic and it seems fitting that if we can steal foci off a pech we could take one from a crimson cultist as well.
The golems got a big revamp in the last update in terms of versatility and customization, so maybe the focus system is next in line for a renaissance. I really enjoyed ars magica 2, but thaumcraft isn't ars magica, however I would think that a good thaumaturge, being the experimenters that they are, would want to expand their arsenal and magical capabilities beyond a handful of very specialized foci.
Spell customization is something that other big mods already do,(Ars Magica 2 and Blood magic), I personally don't feel as thought we need a hundred different foci.
It's not a 100 different foci, in fact it's actually the same amount of foci, just with more ways to use them.
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Curse PremiumSo... more focus upgrades?
I feed off changelogs.
Asking for updates is spam. Really.
I make some mods that are pathetically slow to update. Join in on the wait here and here.
No that's not what their thinking of. More like casting modes. Take the fire focus. Currently it sprays fire in a cone, but if you were to use a casting mode to use the focus on yourself you could gain a fire immunity buff or a lob mode where you throw a fireball that explodes on contact. Different casting modes produce different effects.
This IS how the current upgrade system works. The basic fire focus is a short range cone, but it can become a fireball, or firebeam focus.
I don't know what hedge alchemy is, but I'm excited for it nonetheless!
Yes I know that, but the idea is that you can change how the focus works by changing the handsign used to cast it. Not upgrading the focus so that it can only do one thing. The way the current system works is that if I want the fire focus to produce a fireball I have to upgrade it and now it can only make a fireball so if I want the fire beam or basic focus function I have to create another focus and carry it around. In this proposed system it is one focus with a variety of modes.
I was also thinking that in this new system that the focal manipulator could still have a purpose. The manipulator could still be used to upgrade the potency, efficiency, and range of the focus although I'm not sure how range could be changed to work for cast on self things. Maybe range on self cast means more duration?
You can carry different versions of the same focus with you, you know.
But I like the idea of channeling, still and what I think would be very useful, would be if in the focus select UI foci of the same kind would be grouped together in a smaller circle and duplicate foci would not appear. That would not give any more power to foci, but would still make it a lot faster to switch to the ones you need.
Also maybe an inscribing function to clone the augmentations of one focus to another for a little cheaper than making a new one. I could put this to good use, but it's just a random suggestion, no priority.
I made a D flip-flop!
you can carry different versions of the same focus, but this system would make it so that you could take advantage of all the possible functionalities of a focus type using only one focus. What self respecting thaumaturge would carry more than one thing if they didn't have to...
So maybe thaumcraft versions are just the past, but the player/crimson cult/some mad scientist/a natural phenomenon did something weird that broke magic and each time it fixed itself into a different form?
It's like having a box of tools for the job, or one gigantic swiss army knife with everything you could need.
Having more than one thing allows it to be more specialized.
I fele like we should have to do extra work to get this level of modularity.
I made a D flip-flop!