I thought paywall means you need to pay to get on the server? Which is fine by Mojang's standards.
The only thing I know that is common practice despite being banned by Mojang is "voter rewards", where they reward upvotes with exclusive content. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I thought paywall means you need to pay to get on the server? Which is fine by Mojang's standards.
A 'paywall' is just content gated by giving money to the admin/owner/operater/provider of a thing. Essentially, there is a wall, you pay to get on the other side of it. That could apply to paid servers, it does fit the definition, but it's more often used to describe situations where you have an intentionally diminished version of a thing and have to pay to get the better, more complete version.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
I am personally drawn towards the option of breaking down objects. One of the things I sort of miss in Thaumcraft 5 is the feeling you got in previous versions at the start of a new game where you were faced with a whole world to discover, and in your mind you go: "SCAN ALL THE THINGS!" The sense that you are researching the world and the hidden secrets in a very practical way was always really cool to me. I imagine that breaking stuff down to see how they work would play into this feeling of actively trying to discover the inner workings of the world. I am also looking forward to the system of theories and observations for the same reason.
I found that in TC5, the research was easier, but it was fairly easy to get high level research very quickly, just gather up some shugar canes and cram like it was the last day before an exam. This of course makes it easier for more casual players to enjoy a wider range of the possibilities within thaumcraft though..
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
I'm back! Missed me?
There are ups and downs with both: breaking down items was abandoned because it was too grindy with higher tiers, especially if it wasn't your first run it resulted boring, also while earth aspect is always common something like aer usually was a big issue.
Giving a pool of aspect defeats the propose of an increasing curve of difficulty which was your point I assume.
I suggest a third way, make the research table suck aura to convert it in research points (I only have a partial idea on how the new aura works so if it's not doable just ignore me) as new TC6 aura is raw it can be converted in any element, I suggest the research table to build up elements like one of each every X vis sucked from the aura or a random element maybe encouraged by some focusing objects (like a candle for fire or a pool of water for water to increase the odds) this will also require a redstone signal or something to not mess with the aura in an uncontrolled way, you could add multiple tier of research tables or researches to make the process faster or more efficient. Point being that research will require a good knowledge of how aura works and its limits so expert thumaturges will likely be able to perform research in a more efficient way. It will also requires to build thaumcraft apparatus while you're researching (to manage the aura), instead of unlocking it all (I'm guilty of that) before starting to really play TC.
Bonus fact: this will make the research totally loose from any non TC resources so no other mods (unless specifically designed) can mess with the process, for example if feathers were a good source of aer and a mod allows me to turn dirt in to feathers the balance would be broken.
Possible downsides: it will still takes time but it will allow you to do other things while aspects are building up, might require a chunkloader to keep the chunk the research table is in loaded while you're off doing stuff (unless you come up with a smart way to keep in account ho much time the chunk was unloaded and catch up with the production) it will require multiple tier items to manipulate the aura even early on because otherwise I assume things will get messy pretty quick.
The only thing I know that is common practice despite being banned by Mojang is "voter rewards", where they reward upvotes with exclusive content. Correct me if I'm wrong.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
How about this: bring back TC4s research system but 1) make the thaumometer need upgrades to be able to scan items with 'higher tier' aspects (ones needed for later research, this could be balanced as required), and 2) make scanned items give more research points, possibly equal to 2 or 1.5x their aspect count, so that you get enough of each aspect to get through most or all research without needing to resort to grindy deconstruction unless you screw up (so essentia is still balanced the actual aspect count of items would stay the same).
This would give more of a sense of progression as rather than scanning all the things and getting all the aspects immediately you would have to progress far enough with the simpler aspects to be able to craft the thaumometer upgrades (for example to be able to scan vitium you might have to craft an upgrade in the infusion altar). It would also remove the problem of grindyness in TC4 while not making research as easy as TC5. Theories or observations could still fit into this, but they could be given for doing or scanning specific things and would only be needed for certain research (like the nine hells focus or warp removal soap).
Whatever system you choose to use thanks for all the work you've put into TC.
... Well, I don't think I had read that. Thanks for the clarification.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I saved that link so I can throw it at everyone advertising their trash.
Lol, good for you!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
I like the idea of deconstructing items to gain research, but as long as it's somehow connected with a puzzle, instead of just grinding stuff down like for essence (like in TC 3), maybe needing specific items to research that isn't consumed (for example a thaumometer for the goggles, a wand for aura tapping, etc.) or mabe each research has several semi-specific items you have to find to complete it (the materials you later use to construct them), either along the puzzle or maybe the puzzle reveals what the items you need are.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
To me transforming items into raw aspect related resources should be kept as Essentia.
It shouldn't cost any resource to theorize about anything.
A good way to have a "free" way to theorize that isn't too easy and fully accessible from the start is to have a system like the one in TC5, with a pool of primals you have to work with, but have this pool start out very small, only able to make simple theories, then have multiple upgrades(that you need to unlock) to extend the amount of primals you have available at the start of the puzzle, maybe the final one letting you use essentia to freely extend the pool per puzzle to theorize about pretty much anything as long as you have the essentia to experiment with. This allows for resourceless theorizing but having it need effort and progression to use it to its full potential.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
I've got a short thing of stuff i quickly thought of on the matter.
The axes of discovery
Observation: Finding the unseen connections.
Too see is to believe they say, But a Thaumaturge must go beyond trusting their eyes.
Everything from measuring fluctuations in the aura to observing the effects of moon-phases constitutes as observation,
Utilizing Thaumometers, Cameras and more to observe and chart the known and unknowns of the world.
The Thaumometer and some other tools store information, This information can then be deposited where you need it.
This allows you simply insert your Thaumometer into a research device to make all the things you've scanned with it available for usage.
The Camera holds magical film that can capture up to 5-10 seconds of footage in addition to a single moment.
Examination: Let's see what makes it tick.
Using machinery and applied knowledge to examine objects and information, Both magical and mundane, Through breaking it apart and analyzing their composition.
A very involved process, Using anything from deconstruction tables to microscopes or simple quill and parchment to unveil the true nature of objects.
This is where all the mini-games come into play, As you do anything from tinkering up abstract theories, To carefully taking apart a object for study.
The idea is that you first use your tools to study the world, Capturing information and studying behaviors.
These instruments store the information within themselves, Which you then take back to your research table/study and unload/use.
(additional) Experimentation: I wonder what this will do?
Quite the easiest to explain, Involving actions such as throwing resources into a crucible and observing the reaction and byproducts.
Experimentation is closely tied into the usage, Whether successful or not, Of tools, Weapons and devices and can give you unexpected insight into the world.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
I'd say the tc5 way with a little adjustment. It would work like this, when you work on a theory the pool of research points will be based on how many items relating to the theory you have scanned.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I play only with the top notch mods only, which instantly excludes orespawn and lucky blocks.
Observation: Finding the unseen connections.
Too see is to believe they say, But a Thaumaturge must go beyond trusting their eyes.Everything from measuring fluctuations in the aura to observing the effects of moon-phases constitutes as observation, Utilizing Thaumometers, Cameras and more to observe and chart the known and unknowns of the world.
The Thaumometer and some other tools store information, This information can then be deposited where you need it.
This allows you simply insert your Thaumometer into a research device to make all the things you've scanned with it available for usage.
The Camera holds magical film that can capture up to 5-10 seconds of footage in addition to a single moment.
You scan stuff with the thaumometer or some other tool and then take it back to a research table to disseminate the captured information.
scanning would work just as in previous versions, Except that you have no need to scan simpler things in order to successfully scan something more complex, As the scanned information is linked to/Stored in the scanning tool instead of to the character. At least until the information is transferred to a research-bench.
(Another potential scanning method could be taking a continuous scan, Functioning a bit like a RF/Eu-Reader. Holding down the scan button causes you to take a Measurement-Over-Time, Useful for recording aural fluctuations or energy levels and such.)
Examination: Let's see what makes it tick.
Using machinery and applied knowledge to examine objects and information, Both magical and mundane, Through breaking it apart and analyzing their composition. A very involved process, Using anything from deconstruction tables to microscopes or simple quill and parchment to unveil the true nature of objects. This is where all the mini-games come into play, As you do anything from tinkering up abstract theories, To carefully taking apart a object for study.
This is the research part of the equation. Pretty self-explanatory.
Your research bench becomes your center of discovery for the world, and is where you piece together all the raw information you have collected into usable knowledge as well as taking things apart to learn how it works.
Research is divided into two sections: Dissemination and Connection.
Dissemination is used to take apart objects and offloading the information you have gathered with your tools.
Connection is used to put together what you have collected, Functioning pretty much like research already does.
(Some research may require you to go out and scan specific things in addition to the normal scans you've done to complete. This can manifest either as a written requirement (ex. 1xsheep 1xcow 1xpig) that must be completed or as parts of the researches 'playground' being incomplete, The scans filling out the missing pieces of the board when you get them.)
Experimentation: I wonder what this will do?
Quite the easiest to explain, Involving actions such as throwing resources into a crucible and observing the reaction and byproducts.Experimentation is closely tied into the usage, Whether successful or not, Of tools, Weapons and devices and can give you unexpected insight into the world.
(Sometimes when throwing relevant stuff in the crucible or attempting a infusion, Etc, To create something you don't have a recipe for you will get an object that can be taken back to the research table and be broken down, Allowing you to complete parts of (or even completely) its research.)
When using thaumical apparatus or tools you may also make an observation on its function that allows you greater insight into the mechanics and inner workings of magic and the world.
it would be cool to have that kind of a system. maybe you put items to break down and their essence gets stored in the table (like in TC5) but instead of you starting with the essence you give items to it and extra essence gets stored. so if you need aer and you have an item with aer, mortem, and ignis the mortem and ignis get stored and the aer is used. that way there is no waste. That could even be a research you do later in the game like advanced research mechanics in the prev. versions.
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
Personally I'm inclined to say the TC5 pool of aspects way vs the new system, only because I recall back to TC4 (I think?) and how aspects once almost everything was scanned, could ONLY be gained through the deconstruction table and built up again, sitting there babysitting that thing was agonizing, and seeing there's no combining aspects like you mentioned, it would just mean toiling over books and benches to figure out what items you'll need to slog for, I mean to some extent that could be interesting to try and find the cheapest way and run the book for what has which aspects, but I feel it would lead to much frustration and tedium in the long run. The pool was a bit more managable though when I played TC5, looking at it like a fun strategy, almost like a game of solitaire, it might be easy at first with the simple, small researches, but gets more complex as you need to study and footnote what mixes to make which aspects in order to make efficient use of the little you have at your disposal. I'm not sure how I feel about the "theory points" thing, though part of me thinks if there's no real aspects to harvest for crafting etc, maybe these theory points be gotten by using/scanning/ discovering disasterous results of items as you play? personally once I got things started I was rather fond of finding out what made up stuff, seeing what mod items were or weren't scannable, what would yield a quirky aspect (like magic on chiseled sandstone) but more importantly I particularly found it neat how the Automagy mod did things, having to use component items or things you discovered and then learning from results of active use and/or experimentation. like the first time the Avarice Pearl shattered and left you with a few seconds flux poison. but it taught you the concequences and limitations of the item as well as unlocking further research.
Just my thoughts on the matter, and I loved the TC mods like automagy, so yeah I can't wait to see what comes of it all once your finally done Azanor
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
What do you guys think?
I'd agree with people above - TC4 version was a bit annoying when it came to scanning stuff.
However, I suggest alternate, deck-building approach - have observation increase the size of the aspect pool you start the puzzles with. That way you might literally be unable to complete certain research topics until you learn enough.
Another approach would be to spread out research bonus entries. Say, you need to complete some some observations of ignis aspect to craft a theory regarding ignis, that would give you bonuses (chance of not spending aspect point when placing or crafting; chance of refunding it when removing) to ignis and closely related aspects. Or, if the theory is about a composite aspect, it'd let you add it to your starting pool.
So yeah, to sum it up in two words: deck building. With deck being the aspect points pool you start your research topic with. It can be shared between all research topics (TC4 style, except it's refilled for each new research paper), or it can be based on multipliers (each research paper starts with its own pool, but the bonuses you unlocked increase it's size and improve it's composition).
So I've been struggling with a bit of a decision and I thought I might post it here to get a second opinion. Not sure I want to do it as a poll though.
The research table with it's minigame will still be around in TC6, however it will basically be a crafting mechanic to make "Theories". Theories is one of the new currencies you require to unlock research. For example, unlocking Infusion crafting might cost 5x "Observations: Magic" and 3x "Theories: Magic". Observations you get by scanning stuff (for the most part).
The problem I have is as follows. Where to get the pool of aspects required to finish the old aspect puzzle. In earlier incarnations of TC it was gained by scanning and in TC5 you just had a pool when you crafted the research note.
Now I'm thinking of making require breaking down items. In other words you need to sacrifice something with AER to be able to get AER points to complete the puzzle. Combinations are no longer possible. One of the reasons I'm considering this system is that in the great scheme of things you will be spending a lot less time at the table thus I want to give things there a greater cost.
The alternative is the TC5 way - in other words you start with a pool of primals and you need to combine them to finish the puzzle.
I think I've cooked up a simple way to do research. you do "experiments" or breakdown items to find knowledge and from them you get an "understanding" of the aspect you were researching and a "understanding" is what a aspect is now in research but its permanent. there would be a sort of star around a center research the outer ones are the primals and you would do experiments to "deepen your understanding" of each primal each experiment would increase your pool by 1 for the given aspect, the logic behind this is that your gaining knowledge of the world with experiments(this knowledge being represented by the "understanding pool") which you can then apply to the invention of technologys(this application being what we now call research).
for example
1 - you want to research nitor but with your basic "understanding" of ignis and aer you couldn't research it because your "understanding" pool is to small(1 of each primal aspect being the base)
2 - to do so you would have to do some sort of experiment to "deepen" the "understanding"(increase the aspect pool) so in the thaumanomicon you would go to aspect star and you would click the aspect you want to research (in this case ignis) and you would be presented with a number of experiments to test this aspect.
3 - the first experiment you do is throwing stuff into lava but when you do so you gain a point of perdito but not ignis because though throwing something into fire destroys something it tells you little of fire itself
4 - the second experiment you try thats listed as an ingis experiment is mixing water and lava this provide more interesting results the water turns to steam, the lava to obsidian and so you gain knowledge of ignis, terra, aer and aqua,
5 - now with this greater understanding of how these interact your able to figure out a way to apply them to glowstone
to make nitor
there would also be a multi player aspect if you say spend most of your time researching aqua and your friend researched perdito they could put there "understandings" in place then pass the notes on to you and you complete the research with your level 7 understanding of aqua
i think a system like this could be used if you also wanted to remove compound aspects. though i was thinking there would be special experiments to discover compound aspects but once there discovered they are made from the primals.
also i like the idea of being able to choose which experiment you want to do based on what materials you have i mean id rather blow up stone than break a diamond pick for my first point of perdito.
I thought paywall means you need to pay to get on the server? Which is fine by Mojang's standards.
I made a D flip-flop!
The only thing I know that is common practice despite being banned by Mojang is "voter rewards", where they reward upvotes with exclusive content. Correct me if I'm wrong.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
A 'paywall' is just content gated by giving money to the admin/owner/operater/provider of a thing. Essentially, there is a wall, you pay to get on the other side of it. That could apply to paid servers, it does fit the definition, but it's more often used to describe situations where you have an intentionally diminished version of a thing and have to pay to get the better, more complete version.
I am personally drawn towards the option of breaking down objects. One of the things I sort of miss in Thaumcraft 5 is the feeling you got in previous versions at the start of a new game where you were faced with a whole world to discover, and in your mind you go: "SCAN ALL THE THINGS!" The sense that you are researching the world and the hidden secrets in a very practical way was always really cool to me. I imagine that breaking stuff down to see how they work would play into this feeling of actively trying to discover the inner workings of the world. I am also looking forward to the system of theories and observations for the same reason.
I found that in TC5, the research was easier, but it was fairly easy to get high level research very quickly, just gather up some shugar canes and cram like it was the last day before an exam.
I'm back! Missed me?
There are ups and downs with both: breaking down items was abandoned because it was too grindy with higher tiers, especially if it wasn't your first run it resulted boring, also while earth aspect is always common something like aer usually was a big issue.
Giving a pool of aspect defeats the propose of an increasing curve of difficulty which was your point I assume.
I suggest a third way, make the research table suck aura to convert it in research points (I only have a partial idea on how the new aura works so if it's not doable just ignore me) as new TC6 aura is raw it can be converted in any element, I suggest the research table to build up elements like one of each every X vis sucked from the aura or a random element maybe encouraged by some focusing objects (like a candle for fire or a pool of water for water to increase the odds) this will also require a redstone signal or something to not mess with the aura in an uncontrolled way, you could add multiple tier of research tables or researches to make the process faster or more efficient. Point being that research will require a good knowledge of how aura works and its limits so expert thumaturges will likely be able to perform research in a more efficient way. It will also requires to build thaumcraft apparatus while you're researching (to manage the aura), instead of unlocking it all (I'm guilty of that) before starting to really play TC.
Bonus fact: this will make the research totally loose from any non TC resources so no other mods (unless specifically designed) can mess with the process, for example if feathers were a good source of aer and a mod allows me to turn dirt in to feathers the balance would be broken.
Possible downsides: it will still takes time but it will allow you to do other things while aspects are building up, might require a chunkloader to keep the chunk the research table is in loaded while you're off doing stuff (unless you come up with a smart way to keep in account ho much time the chunk was unloaded and catch up with the production) it will require multiple tier items to manipulate the aura even early on because otherwise I assume things will get messy pretty quick.
Hope you like, back in the shadows.
https://mojang.com/2014/06/lets-talk-server-monetisation-the-follow-up-qa/
?
I made a D flip-flop!
How about this: bring back TC4s research system but 1) make the thaumometer need upgrades to be able to scan items with 'higher tier' aspects (ones needed for later research, this could be balanced as required), and 2) make scanned items give more research points, possibly equal to 2 or 1.5x their aspect count, so that you get enough of each aspect to get through most or all research without needing to resort to grindy deconstruction unless you screw up (so essentia is still balanced the actual aspect count of items would stay the same).
This would give more of a sense of progression as rather than scanning all the things and getting all the aspects immediately you would have to progress far enough with the simpler aspects to be able to craft the thaumometer upgrades (for example to be able to scan vitium you might have to craft an upgrade in the infusion altar). It would also remove the problem of grindyness in TC4 while not making research as easy as TC5. Theories or observations could still fit into this, but they could be given for doing or scanning specific things and would only be needed for certain research (like the nine hells focus or warp removal soap).
Whatever system you choose to use thanks for all the work you've put into TC.
... Well, I don't think I had read that. Thanks for the clarification.
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I saved that link so I can throw it at everyone advertising their trash.
I made a D flip-flop!
Lol, good for you!
I hope someday there's more magic in Minecraft, though I know it's not likely to happen. In the meantime, I play modded a lot. I enjoy a lot of other games too, so don't expect me to be on the forums all the time.
I like the idea of deconstructing items to gain research, but as long as it's somehow connected with a puzzle, instead of just grinding stuff down like for essence (like in TC 3), maybe needing specific items to research that isn't consumed (for example a thaumometer for the goggles, a wand for aura tapping, etc.) or mabe each research has several semi-specific items you have to find to complete it (the materials you later use to construct them), either along the puzzle or maybe the puzzle reveals what the items you need are.
To me transforming items into raw aspect related resources should be kept as Essentia.
It shouldn't cost any resource to theorize about anything.
A good way to have a "free" way to theorize that isn't too easy and fully accessible from the start is to have a system like the one in TC5, with a pool of primals you have to work with, but have this pool start out very small, only able to make simple theories, then have multiple upgrades(that you need to unlock) to extend the amount of primals you have available at the start of the puzzle, maybe the final one letting you use essentia to freely extend the pool per puzzle to theorize about pretty much anything as long as you have the essentia to experiment with. This allows for resourceless theorizing but having it need effort and progression to use it to its full potential.
I've got a short thing of stuff i quickly thought of on the matter.
The axes of discovery
Observation: Finding the unseen connections.
Too see is to believe they say, But a Thaumaturge must go beyond trusting their eyes.
Everything from measuring fluctuations in the aura to observing the effects of moon-phases constitutes as observation,
Utilizing Thaumometers, Cameras and more to observe and chart the known and unknowns of the world.
The Thaumometer and some other tools store information, This information can then be deposited where you need it.
This allows you simply insert your Thaumometer into a research device to make all the things you've scanned with it available for usage.
The Camera holds magical film that can capture up to 5-10 seconds of footage in addition to a single moment.
Examination: Let's see what makes it tick.
Using machinery and applied knowledge to examine objects and information, Both magical and mundane, Through breaking it apart and analyzing their composition.
A very involved process, Using anything from deconstruction tables to microscopes or simple quill and parchment to unveil the true nature of objects.
This is where all the mini-games come into play, As you do anything from tinkering up abstract theories, To carefully taking apart a object for study.
The idea is that you first use your tools to study the world, Capturing information and studying behaviors.
These instruments store the information within themselves, Which you then take back to your research table/study and unload/use.
(additional)
Experimentation: I wonder what this will do?
Quite the easiest to explain, Involving actions such as throwing resources into a crucible and observing the reaction and byproducts.
Experimentation is closely tied into the usage, Whether successful or not, Of tools, Weapons and devices and can give you unexpected insight into the world.
I'd say the tc5 way with a little adjustment. It would work like this, when you work on a theory the pool of research points will be based on how many items relating to the theory you have scanned.
I play only with the top notch mods only, which instantly excludes orespawn and lucky blocks.
Your ammo are bullets-Admiral Bahroo 2016
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Curse Premiumjust make it like you have in TC5 but make it cost more to get the the Theories so if you fail you have to spend more to get a new one if you fail
Some time has passed and i think i will elaborate on the idea that i intended to convey in my post.
Parts within ( ) are additional ideas or suggestions, Existing semi-separate from the whole.
You scan stuff with the thaumometer or some other tool and then take it back to a research table to disseminate the captured information.
scanning would work just as in previous versions, Except that you have no need to scan simpler things in order to successfully scan something more complex, As the scanned information is linked to/Stored in the scanning tool instead of to the character. At least until the information is transferred to a research-bench.
(Another potential scanning method could be taking a continuous scan, Functioning a bit like a RF/Eu-Reader. Holding down the scan button causes you to take a Measurement-Over-Time, Useful for recording aural fluctuations or energy levels and such.)
This is the research part of the equation. Pretty self-explanatory.
Your research bench becomes your center of discovery for the world, and is where you piece together all the raw information you have collected into usable knowledge as well as taking things apart to learn how it works.
Research is divided into two sections: Dissemination and Connection.
Dissemination is used to take apart objects and offloading the information you have gathered with your tools.
Connection is used to put together what you have collected, Functioning pretty much like research already does.
(Some research may require you to go out and scan specific things in addition to the normal scans you've done to complete. This can manifest either as a written requirement (ex. 1xsheep 1xcow 1xpig) that must be completed or as parts of the researches 'playground' being incomplete, The scans filling out the missing pieces of the board when you get them.)
(Sometimes when throwing relevant stuff in the crucible or attempting a infusion, Etc, To create something you don't have a recipe for you will get an object that can be taken back to the research table and be broken down, Allowing you to complete parts of (or even completely) its research.)
When using thaumical apparatus or tools you may also make an observation on its function that allows you greater insight into the mechanics and inner workings of magic and the world.
it would be cool to have that kind of a system. maybe you put items to break down and their essence gets stored in the table (like in TC5) but instead of you starting with the essence you give items to it and extra essence gets stored. so if you need aer and you have an item with aer, mortem, and ignis the mortem and ignis get stored and the aer is used. that way there is no waste. That could even be a research you do later in the game like advanced research mechanics in the prev. versions.
Personally I'm inclined to say the TC5 pool of aspects way vs the new system, only because I recall back to TC4 (I think?) and how aspects once almost everything was scanned, could ONLY be gained through the deconstruction table and built up again, sitting there babysitting that thing was agonizing, and seeing there's no combining aspects like you mentioned, it would just mean toiling over books and benches to figure out what items you'll need to slog for, I mean to some extent that could be interesting to try and find the cheapest way and run the book for what has which aspects, but I feel it would lead to much frustration and tedium in the long run. The pool was a bit more managable though when I played TC5, looking at it like a fun strategy, almost like a game of solitaire, it might be easy at first with the simple, small researches, but gets more complex as you need to study and footnote what mixes to make which aspects in order to make efficient use of the little you have at your disposal. I'm not sure how I feel about the "theory points" thing, though part of me thinks if there's no real aspects to harvest for crafting etc, maybe these theory points be gotten by using/scanning/ discovering disasterous results of items as you play? personally once I got things started I was rather fond of finding out what made up stuff, seeing what mod items were or weren't scannable, what would yield a quirky aspect (like magic on chiseled sandstone) but more importantly I particularly found it neat how the Automagy mod did things, having to use component items or things you discovered and then learning from results of active use and/or experimentation. like the first time the Avarice Pearl shattered and left you with a few seconds flux poison. but it taught you the concequences and limitations of the item as well as unlocking further research.
Just my thoughts on the matter, and I loved the TC mods like automagy, so yeah I can't wait to see what comes of it all once your finally done Azanor
I'd agree with people above - TC4 version was a bit annoying when it came to scanning stuff.
However, I suggest alternate, deck-building approach - have observation increase the size of the aspect pool you start the puzzles with. That way you might literally be unable to complete certain research topics until you learn enough.
Another approach would be to spread out research bonus entries. Say, you need to complete some some observations of ignis aspect to craft a theory regarding ignis, that would give you bonuses (chance of not spending aspect point when placing or crafting; chance of refunding it when removing) to ignis and closely related aspects. Or, if the theory is about a composite aspect, it'd let you add it to your starting pool.
So yeah, to sum it up in two words: deck building. With deck being the aspect points pool you start your research topic with. It can be shared between all research topics (TC4 style, except it's refilled for each new research paper), or it can be based on multipliers (each research paper starts with its own pool, but the bonuses you unlocked increase it's size and improve it's composition).
I think I've cooked up a simple way to do research. you do "experiments" or breakdown items to find knowledge and from them you get an "understanding" of the aspect you were researching and a "understanding" is what a aspect is now in research but its permanent. there would be a sort of star around a center research the outer ones are the primals and you would do experiments to "deepen your understanding" of each primal each experiment would increase your pool by 1 for the given aspect, the logic behind this is that your gaining knowledge of the world with experiments(this knowledge being represented by the "understanding pool") which you can then apply to the invention of technologys(this application being what we now call research).
for example
1 - you want to research nitor but with your basic "understanding" of ignis and aer you couldn't research it because your "understanding" pool is to small(1 of each primal aspect being the base)
2 - to do so you would have to do some sort of experiment to "deepen" the "understanding"(increase the aspect pool) so in the thaumanomicon you would go to aspect star and you would click the aspect you want to research (in this case ignis) and you would be presented with a number of experiments to test this aspect.
3 - the first experiment you do is throwing stuff into lava but when you do so you gain a point of perdito but not ignis because though throwing something into fire destroys something it tells you little of fire itself
4 - the second experiment you try thats listed as an ingis experiment is mixing water and lava this provide more interesting results the water turns to steam, the lava to obsidian and so you gain knowledge of ignis, terra, aer and aqua,
5 - now with this greater understanding of how these interact your able to figure out a way to apply them to glowstone
to make nitor
there would also be a multi player aspect if you say spend most of your time researching aqua and your friend researched perdito they could put there "understandings" in place then pass the notes on to you and you complete the research with your level 7 understanding of aqua
i think a system like this could be used if you also wanted to remove compound aspects. though i was thinking there would be special experiments to discover compound aspects but once there discovered they are made from the primals.
also i like the idea of being able to choose which experiment you want to do based on what materials you have i mean id rather blow up stone than break a diamond pick for my first point of perdito.
just some things to think about