I'm sorry if I've somehow offended you. That was never my intention.
Unfortunately, I've never been exposed to your 'doujin culture' before and I still don't completely understand why some there are some 'good' ways to pay for work and some 'bad' ways. It has been interesting trying to understand your point of view though.
All I'm doing is holding out a hat and people are dropping money into it. I don't know why that makes you so aggressive.
Holding a hat for what you've already done is fine. But what you're doing is waving your hat at people for something you've yet to do.
Sorry but, there are many mod devs that work on mods in their own time instead of quitting a job/collage/school and asking for money from others. Sure the mod doesn't get developed quickly. but, it does get done eventually. And some people are perfectly happy waiting.
There's also many mod devs that have worked extremely hard on their mods and still do without asking for a single penny.
Erasmus, first of all, totally support your campaign, just tweeted about, hope you can reach the goal, and work on the new Ex-Nihilo 2, for sure it will be amazing as Ex-Nihilo 1 is already.
Good luck with that man you totally deserve for the great mod you created.
***
Now to the question lol
For Ex-Nihilo 1, we should ask "Fixes/suggestions" on the bitbucket link you shared, or can we ask here anyway?
In any case, the question is "Is there any upgrade planned?" Apparently, the new Thermal Expansion broke somehow the way you overwrite/add recipes for the Pulverizer, so you now not getting Gravel from Cobblestone for example.
Not really sure why it's broken because using ModTweaker you can overwrite recipes with the exact same code. Perhaps it's the way your mod recognizes if Thermal Expansion is installed or not? Really don't know, hopefully it's an easy fix and you can push an update
Thanks a lot.
****
Edit: Now that I answer a comment in same post it came to my mind, is it your mod doing that, or I should ask Ex-Astris developer?
Holding a hat for what you've already done is fine. But what you're doing is waving your hat at people for something you've yet to do.
I once paid a man for a game that was barely working. It was in alpha testing, and it looked pretty terrible. Everyone called him crazy. He said something like, "Hi there! I've got this game, it's not much, but I can make it bigger, better, more fun! So please pay me anyway?" I did. Paying for the development of Minecraft was the best eight dollars that I will ever give anyone in my life. I'm thankful to him for giving me the opportunity to help.
So... Hi there! I've got this mod, Ex Nihilo. It's already pretty cool, but I can make it bigger, better and more fun! So please pay me anyway?
How can you judge me, and not him? How can you say you'll never play my mod, while you are playing his game? I'm not even selling my work. As long as someone buys me food, I will give away my work for free, just like I've already given away two years, for free.
Sorry but, there are many mod devs that work on mods in their own time instead of quitting a job/collage/school and asking for money from others. Sure the mod doesn't get developed quickly. but, it does get done eventually. And some people are perfectly happy waiting.
There's also many mod devs that have worked extremely hard on their mods and still do without asking for a single penny.
Maybe you're referring to mod authors who DON'T have to support millions of people that play major mod packs... Well, I'm sorry, but once your mod reaches 10,000+ lines of code, it takes more time and more sacrifices to work on then your average "Look at me, I made an obsidian shovel!" mod.
All modders (rightfully) want to be make a living with their modding work. If you don't like my mod, then don't support it's development, but I am not the villain that you are trying to paint me as.
Erasmus, first of all, totally support your campaign, just tweeted about, hope you can reach the goal, and work on the new Ex-Nihilo 2, for sure it will be amazing as Ex-Nihilo 1 is already.
Good luck with that man you totally deserve for the great mod you created.
***
Now to the question lol
For Ex-Nihilo 1, we should ask "Fixes/suggestions" on the bitbucket link you shared, or can we ask here anyway?
In any case, the question is "Is there any upgrade planned?" Apparently, the new Thermal Expansion broke somehow the way you overwrite/add recipes for the Pulverizer, so you now not getting Gravel from Cobblestone for example.
Not really sure why it's broken because using ModTweaker you can overwrite recipes with the exact same code. Perhaps it's the way your mod recognizes if Thermal Expansion is installed or not? Really don't know, hopefully it's an easy fix and you can push an update
Thanks a lot.
****
Edit: Now that I answer a comment in same post it came to my mind, is it your mod doing that, or I should ask Ex-Astris developer?
Thanks for the support man.
Also, thanks for just stopping by and saying hi. As you can see above, this has become a bit of a trial, so I can use as much reassurance as I can get.
To answer your question, Insaneau is supporting Ex Nihilo 1 for now. I'm still working full time and dealing with the kickstarter. You'll have much better luck asking him for help. His bug tracker is the bitbucket link I shared earlier. I'll likely be adding that link to the front page of this thread tonight to clear that up.
I think the kickstarter is an awesome idea!! Anyone who thinks you're trying to steal money or whatever really has no idea how money works in the real world, and how little 10k actually is, and Definitely has no idea how intensive development projects can be, especially when the said development project will be released for free...
With that said, I've enjoyed ex nihilo so much that I will try to donate when I can afford to. I think your plans for development are ridiculously brave and you earn a lotta my respect.
I once paid a man for a game that was barely working. It was in alpha testing, and it looked pretty terrible. Everyone called him crazy. He said something like, "Hi there! I've got this game, it's not much, but I can make it bigger, better, more fun! So please pay me anyway?" I did. Paying for the development of Minecraft was the best eight dollars that I will ever give anyone in my life. I'm thankful to him for giving me the opportunity to help.
I think the kickstarter is an awesome idea!! Anyone who thinks you're trying to steal money or whatever really has no idea how money works in the real world, and how little 10k actually is, and Definitely has no idea how intensive development projects can be, especially when the said development project will be released for free...
With that said, I've enjoyed ex nihilo so much that I will try to donate when I can afford to. I think your plans for development are ridiculously brave and you earn a lotta my respect.
Thank you so much chanicle. I sincerely hope that I get a chance to return your kindness and generosity.
I do feel like Erasmus's comment was a tad bit rude "Unfortunately, I've never been exposed to your 'doujin culture' before and I still don't completely understand why some......"
A person's personal interests shouldn't be pointed out in a conversation about mod development and kickstarters.
Though it is rather silly people are getting upset over the kickstarter, I suppose they fear you will lose interest in the mod if it doesnt reach it's goal Erasmus? That is the only discernible reason I can see.
Really though, the kickstarter is optional and it is not mandatory. If you think Erasmus's kickstarter is lame, just think, people have gotten 600+ dollars over potato salad... A mod with a kickstart honestly isn't a waste, in fact you already have content for free peeps.
My only concern about the kickstarter is maybe the goal's amount? I'm not sure if its that high for room for growth or what. Even if it is achieved a paying job should still be in possession. I'd rather a mod maker have a decently stable life even if it takes away from mod time, and of course time for bug fixes is time well spent too.
I do feel like Erasmus's comment was a tad bit rude "Unfortunately, I've never been exposed to your 'doujin culture' before and I still don't completely understand why some......"
A person's personal interests shouldn't be pointed out in a conversation about mod development and kickstarters.
Though it is rather silly people are getting upset over the kickstarter, I suppose they fear you will lose interest in the mod if it doesnt reach it's goal Erasmus? That is the only discernible reason I can see.
Really though, the kickstarter is optional and it is not mandatory. If you think Erasmus's kickstarter is lame, just think, people have gotten 600+ dollars over potato salad... A mod with a kickstart honestly isn't a waste, in fact you already have content for free peeps.
My only concern about the kickstarter is maybe the goal's amount? I'm not sure if its that high for room for growth or what. Even if it is achieved a paying job should still be in possession. I'd rather a mod maker have a decently stable life even if it takes away from mod time, and of course time for bug fixes is time well spent too.
What you don't see are the comments of his that were deleted by moderators where he was unloading on me for betraying the "doujin culture and ZUN" (his words).
I see how my response might seem rude, but I meant what I said. I've never even heard of either of those terms before, and I still don't have a functional understanding of them.
As far as me losing interest if the goal isn't met....
The problem isn't interest. It's time. I love skyblock. This community is fantastic and I absolutely adore the people who stop by to let me know how much they appreciate my work. I wish SO MUCH that I can do this all day, every day.
When I created this mod, I didn't have a job. This mod WAS my job. I would estimate that 90% or more of the features of the mod were developed during that time. A year ago, I got a job offer and accepted it. At first I thought I could do both things. For the first six months or so I tried as hard as I could to keep up, but I didn't have time to make the jump from 1.6 to 1.7, so another modder had to do it for me. Without him, this mod would probably have died then. I got so tired of sitting in front of a computer for 80 or 90 hours a week between my day job and my work here, so I started slacking off. Other modders picked up the slack and fixed bugs for me. Now Insaneau is working on the mod for the current 1.7 packs and even doing the builds for me so that Sky Factory 2 and Agrarian Skies 2 can keep making progress...
None of this is fair to you, to Jadedcat, to Bacon_Donut, or to Insaneau, Parker, and the other great modders that have helped me out. I need to either come back and pick up my slack, or give up the rights to my project and get out of the way. This mod is open source so that it will survive me leaving, but I DESPERATELY don't want to, and maybe the next modder won't share my vision or design choices that have created such a following...
Lots of people have suggested that I only work part time so that I have more free time, but I'm a software engineer. The systems I work on take weeks of full time focus to even understand. There is no such thing as a part time software engineer.
I still have my job. I haven't finalized my leaving just yet. The kickstarter is me, asking you guys, "Please, PLEASE let me work for you instead." I'm willing to make a fraction of what I am now. I'm obviously never going to get rich doing this, I just want someone to pay for my roof, my internet, my electricity and my food so I can actually create things again.
So what happens if the kickstarter fails? I grow up. I accept that I'm an adult, adults have to have "real jobs", and that I'm not capable of having a job and being a modder. That is the truth of the situation I'm in.
I hope I've made it clear that none of this is happening due to a lack of passion, or ideas, or commitment. In fact, I'm doing the Kickstarter because I'm so committed to this community that I want to give you guys a last chance to keep me in the game.
First of all, Eramsus, I totally understand what you're saying. I'm not a coder, so doing just the mod tweaker recipes for the modpack I'm sort of working on has taken me nearly two weeks. That length is partly because I have a job and a life outside minecraft. Doing the HQM quests is going to take me forever. Mod makers who develop and maintain a major mod like this have my full respect. I get a sense of the amount of time needed just to type in the code and check it for errors. There's a lot of pressure from the community to keep it up to the pace minecraft sets on updates, keep it current with the rest of the major mods, keep adding new features... well, you know, as you do that. Or were and would like to again.
I don't know the age or circumstances of those who are giving you a hard time. All I can think is that they don't know what sort of hours it takes to do what you do. They may be middle or high school students who have no life outside school and minecraft. I don't know. Maybe they've never tried to write code (or even just scripts) for anything so they have no concept of what is required.
I love what you and your helpers have done so far with Ex Nihilo. It generally goes in every minecraft instance I put together any more. It's in the one I'm building. I love skyblocks. I'd love to see you able to keep developing it.
I wish I could afford to support you financially. I simply can't. But moral support doesn't cost me anything but words, so you can have that from me.
I see so that is why you made that comment, strange though that there is a correlation between Minecraft and Japanese art culture being made?
You're taking my post personally and close to heart, I am not knocking the idea of the kickstarter. Though I just had concerns that your reliant on this kickstarter to get by. So as a software engineer you mean just this mod period? While the idea of that kind of dedication seems heroic, it is somewhat unrealistic as its very luck driven.
I am not saying its is impossible, with the mod's popularity it should reach that goal, its just concerning that this mod is all riding on this kickstarter.
its just concerning that this mod is all riding on this kickstarter.
Why is it so unreasonable that a modder is asking if it's worth spending the time to make mods?
That's what this kickstarter is. This kickstarter is a question that Erasmus is asking of Minecraft players. The question explicitly is:
Will you pay for my time so I can make this thing to give to everyone for free?
The only difference between kickstarter and a tip jar (a la the doujin culture), is that in a kickstarter, the creator is asking people to pay for the creation in advance. For a creation that is given away freely, no other economic model makes sense. Tip jars don't work for free creations (especially large creations), because it's too easy for the users to be ignorant of the cost of creating that thing. After the thing is created, users forget (or never cared in the first place) about how much it costs, and just use it because it's free, without ever contributing back to pay for the cost.
The kickstarter, on the other hand, makes the cost of the creation explicitly clear at the beginning. The kickstarter tells players what it actually costs to create these things, and it protects the modder from wasting his/her time in the case when the after-the-fact tips never materialize. Which is all too often the case in my experience.
On the other hand, If you're arguing that there should never be professional modders, then consider this. Creating mods takes time, effort, and energy. When someone has to work a 9-5 job to pay the bills, that doesn't leave much time and energy left over for other things like modding. After a long day's work, most people want to spend their leftover time relaxing and recovering energy, not spending it all on more work.
When you ask modders to instead use that leftover time to spend energy creating mods and give them to you for free, you're setting up an imbalance. No human can use all of their time spending energy without using some of that time to recover it back. There has to be balance. Working all day at your job, and then working all night and weekends at modding is totally unsustainable for long periods of time. People burn out. I'm guessing that's what happened here with Ex Nihilo.
Making excellent mods takes lots of time, and there's not enough time leftover after a 9-5 job for both relaxing and high-level modding. One of those three things has to go. This kickstarter is a way of asking the Minecraft community what they value more: Great mods, or the well-being of the modders. So far, the answer seems to be "great mods, and screw the modders."
You getting a completely different idea from what i'm saying. Also, didn't we just talk about not using personal interests in a conversation?
Doujin is a general Japanese term for a group of people or friends who share an interest, activity, hobbies, or achievement. The word is sometimes translated into English as clique, fandom, coterie, society, or circle. So unless your referring to the kickstarter as everyone's doujin then its not really relevant to bring it up.
Also, as I am stating while possible its hard to rely on a kickstarter for your rent/tax/etc. Some people get through with that, and some have real jobs along with their donators. Its just alot of risk really, all i'm really wondering is if he is prepared for all the risk of just a kickstarter? Also, I was asking if he really is just relying on the kickstarter.
Doujin is a general Japanese term for a group of people or friends who share an interest, activity, hobbies, or achievement. The word is sometimes translated into English as clique, fandom, coterie, society, or circle. So unless your referring to the kickstarter as everyone's doujin then its not really relevant to bring it up.
Since no one seems to understand why doujin culture keeps getting brought up in this thread, let me explain.
From my (admittedly limited) understanding, the tradition of the doujin culture is for a fan to create a thing, and then sell it for money. Asking for money before creating the thing is doing it wrong and goes against the tradition of the doujin culture.
The person who introduced this concept to the thread had their comments deleted by a moderator, so sadly no one can follow that discussion. I though it raised some interesting points though.
I agree with this tradition for creations that are relatively small and for creations that you can actually sell access to. For creations that must be given away freely (think outdoor visual art), I don't think the create-first-pay-later models works. Especially when the upfront costs of the creation are large.
The kickstarter model makes much more sense creations that must be given away freely, because the artist can be guaranteed that the creation will be paid for before spending any time on its creation. This actually reduces a huge amount of risk for creators and is much better than the tip jar model, in my opinion.
I'm curious to know why you made your earlier post bigger of redundant information that ether I already know, or more things that you're totally getting the wrong idea from. I never said there shouldn't be professional modders, I don't appreciate words being put into my mouth.
I also don't know why you think I object to this kickstarter, while all I have is just concerns and questions. Also don't throw freely around so loosely, while it will be technically free for some others still would of had to pay for the "free mod"
So really he assumes the risks and responsibilities of freelance work? Fine, if he is successful kudos to him. I am really just more curious to a plan B, or if he has tried other things for assistance (Ex: Paetron), or the reason this will be his only line of work.
cause a crash/conflict with thermal expansion
Holding a hat for what you've already done is fine. But what you're doing is waving your hat at people for something you've yet to do.
Sorry but, there are many mod devs that work on mods in their own time instead of quitting a job/collage/school and asking for money from others. Sure the mod doesn't get developed quickly. but, it does get done eventually. And some people are perfectly happy waiting.
There's also many mod devs that have worked extremely hard on their mods and still do without asking for a single penny.
I don't know why people are upset, you're asking. Key word? 'Asking'
they don't have to pay, but you're 10% there ALREADY!
people seem to like you
Also, the alchemy system seems awesome! Can't wait for alchemical factories and stuff!
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Curse PremiumErasmus, first of all, totally support your campaign, just tweeted about, hope you can reach the goal, and work on the new Ex-Nihilo 2, for sure it will be amazing as Ex-Nihilo 1 is already.
Good luck with that man
you totally deserve for the great mod you created.
***
Now to the question
lol
For Ex-Nihilo 1, we should ask "Fixes/suggestions" on the bitbucket link you shared, or can we ask here anyway?
In any case, the question is "Is there any upgrade planned?" Apparently, the new Thermal Expansion broke somehow the way you overwrite/add recipes for the Pulverizer, so you now not getting Gravel from Cobblestone for example.
Not really sure why it's broken because using ModTweaker you can overwrite recipes with the exact same code. Perhaps it's the way your mod recognizes if Thermal Expansion is installed or not? Really don't know, hopefully it's an easy fix and you can push an update
Thanks a lot.
****
Edit: Now that I answer a comment in same post it came to my mind, is it your mod doing that, or I should ask Ex-Astris developer?
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Curse PremiumI have Thermal Expansion (Dynamics, Foundations, MFR and the 2 Cores) and Ex-Nihilo with Ex-Astris and no problem at all...
But there was an issue, make sure you have the newer Ex-Astris, with the provious version I was using, there was a crash.
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Curse PremiumI once paid a man for a game that was barely working. It was in alpha testing, and it looked pretty terrible. Everyone called him crazy. He said something like, "Hi there! I've got this game, it's not much, but I can make it bigger, better, more fun! So please pay me anyway?" I did. Paying for the development of Minecraft was the best eight dollars that I will ever give anyone in my life. I'm thankful to him for giving me the opportunity to help.
So... Hi there! I've got this mod, Ex Nihilo. It's already pretty cool, but I can make it bigger, better and more fun! So please pay me anyway?
How can you judge me, and not him? How can you say you'll never play my mod, while you are playing his game? I'm not even selling my work. As long as someone buys me food, I will give away my work for free, just like I've already given away two years, for free.
You mean like, Pahimar, Azanor, Chickenbones, iChun, CovertJaguar, Professor Mobius, or Pam from Pam's Harvestcraft?
Maybe you're referring to mod authors who DON'T have to support millions of people that play major mod packs... Well, I'm sorry, but once your mod reaches 10,000+ lines of code, it takes more time and more sacrifices to work on then your average "Look at me, I made an obsidian shovel!" mod.
All modders (rightfully) want to be make a living with their modding work. If you don't like my mod, then don't support it's development, but I am not the villain that you are trying to paint me as.
Thanks for the support man.
Also, thanks for just stopping by and saying hi. As you can see above, this has become a bit of a trial, so I can use as much reassurance as I can get.
To answer your question, Insaneau is supporting Ex Nihilo 1 for now. I'm still working full time and dealing with the kickstarter. You'll have much better luck asking him for help. His bug tracker is the bitbucket link I shared earlier. I'll likely be adding that link to the front page of this thread tonight to clear that up.
Thanks again!
I think the kickstarter is an awesome idea!! Anyone who thinks you're trying to steal money or whatever really has no idea how money works in the real world, and how little 10k actually is, and Definitely has no idea how intensive development projects can be, especially when the said development project will be released for free...
With that said, I've enjoyed ex nihilo so much that I will try to donate when I can afford to. I think your plans for development are ridiculously brave and you earn a lotta my respect.
I bought it when it was on Release 1.2.5.
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Curse PremiumYou bought something after it's development was funded by it's fans. Doesn't that violate your moral code?
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Curse PremiumThank you so much chanicle. I sincerely hope that I get a chance to return your kindness and generosity.
Hmm, you're right. Maybe I should stop playing.
I do feel like Erasmus's comment was a tad bit rude "Unfortunately, I've never been exposed to your 'doujin culture' before and I still don't completely understand why some......"
A person's personal interests shouldn't be pointed out in a conversation about mod development and kickstarters.
Though it is rather silly people are getting upset over the kickstarter, I suppose they fear you will lose interest in the mod if it doesnt reach it's goal Erasmus? That is the only discernible reason I can see.
Really though, the kickstarter is optional and it is not mandatory. If you think Erasmus's kickstarter is lame, just think, people have gotten 600+ dollars over potato salad... A mod with a kickstart honestly isn't a waste, in fact you already have content for free peeps.
My only concern about the kickstarter is maybe the goal's amount? I'm not sure if its that high for room for growth or what. Even if it is achieved a paying job should still be in possession. I'd rather a mod maker have a decently stable life even if it takes away from mod time, and of course time for bug fixes is time well spent too.
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Curse PremiumWhat you don't see are the comments of his that were deleted by moderators where he was unloading on me for betraying the "doujin culture and ZUN" (his words).
I see how my response might seem rude, but I meant what I said. I've never even heard of either of those terms before, and I still don't have a functional understanding of them.
As far as me losing interest if the goal isn't met....
The problem isn't interest. It's time. I love skyblock. This community is fantastic and I absolutely adore the people who stop by to let me know how much they appreciate my work. I wish SO MUCH that I can do this all day, every day.
When I created this mod, I didn't have a job. This mod WAS my job. I would estimate that 90% or more of the features of the mod were developed during that time. A year ago, I got a job offer and accepted it. At first I thought I could do both things. For the first six months or so I tried as hard as I could to keep up, but I didn't have time to make the jump from 1.6 to 1.7, so another modder had to do it for me. Without him, this mod would probably have died then. I got so tired of sitting in front of a computer for 80 or 90 hours a week between my day job and my work here, so I started slacking off. Other modders picked up the slack and fixed bugs for me. Now Insaneau is working on the mod for the current 1.7 packs and even doing the builds for me so that Sky Factory 2 and Agrarian Skies 2 can keep making progress...
None of this is fair to you, to Jadedcat, to Bacon_Donut, or to Insaneau, Parker, and the other great modders that have helped me out. I need to either come back and pick up my slack, or give up the rights to my project and get out of the way. This mod is open source so that it will survive me leaving, but I DESPERATELY don't want to, and maybe the next modder won't share my vision or design choices that have created such a following...
Lots of people have suggested that I only work part time so that I have more free time, but I'm a software engineer. The systems I work on take weeks of full time focus to even understand. There is no such thing as a part time software engineer.
I still have my job. I haven't finalized my leaving just yet. The kickstarter is me, asking you guys, "Please, PLEASE let me work for you instead." I'm willing to make a fraction of what I am now. I'm obviously never going to get rich doing this, I just want someone to pay for my roof, my internet, my electricity and my food so I can actually create things again.
So what happens if the kickstarter fails? I grow up. I accept that I'm an adult, adults have to have "real jobs", and that I'm not capable of having a job and being a modder. That is the truth of the situation I'm in.
I hope I've made it clear that none of this is happening due to a lack of passion, or ideas, or commitment. In fact, I'm doing the Kickstarter because I'm so committed to this community that I want to give you guys a last chance to keep me in the game.
First of all, Eramsus, I totally understand what you're saying. I'm not a coder, so doing just the mod tweaker recipes for the modpack I'm sort of working on has taken me nearly two weeks. That length is partly because I have a job and a life outside minecraft. Doing the HQM quests is going to take me forever. Mod makers who develop and maintain a major mod like this have my full respect. I get a sense of the amount of time needed just to type in the code and check it for errors. There's a lot of pressure from the community to keep it up to the pace minecraft sets on updates, keep it current with the rest of the major mods, keep adding new features... well, you know, as you do that. Or were and would like to again.
I don't know the age or circumstances of those who are giving you a hard time. All I can think is that they don't know what sort of hours it takes to do what you do. They may be middle or high school students who have no life outside school and minecraft. I don't know. Maybe they've never tried to write code (or even just scripts) for anything so they have no concept of what is required.
I love what you and your helpers have done so far with Ex Nihilo. It generally goes in every minecraft instance I put together any more. It's in the one I'm building. I love skyblocks. I'd love to see you able to keep developing it.
I wish I could afford to support you financially. I simply can't. But moral support doesn't cost me anything but words, so you can have that from me.
I see so that is why you made that comment, strange though that there is a correlation between Minecraft and Japanese art culture being made?
You're taking my post personally and close to heart, I am not knocking the idea of the kickstarter. Though I just had concerns that your reliant on this kickstarter to get by. So as a software engineer you mean just this mod period? While the idea of that kind of dedication seems heroic, it is somewhat unrealistic as its very luck driven.
I am not saying its is impossible, with the mod's popularity it should reach that goal, its just concerning that this mod is all riding on this kickstarter.
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Curse PremiumWhy is it so unreasonable that a modder is asking if it's worth spending the time to make mods?
That's what this kickstarter is. This kickstarter is a question that Erasmus is asking of Minecraft players. The question explicitly is:
Will you pay for my time so I can make this thing to give to everyone for free?
The only difference between kickstarter and a tip jar (a la the doujin culture), is that in a kickstarter, the creator is asking people to pay for the creation in advance. For a creation that is given away freely, no other economic model makes sense. Tip jars don't work for free creations (especially large creations), because it's too easy for the users to be ignorant of the cost of creating that thing. After the thing is created, users forget (or never cared in the first place) about how much it costs, and just use it because it's free, without ever contributing back to pay for the cost.
The kickstarter, on the other hand, makes the cost of the creation explicitly clear at the beginning. The kickstarter tells players what it actually costs to create these things, and it protects the modder from wasting his/her time in the case when the after-the-fact tips never materialize. Which is all too often the case in my experience.
On the other hand, If you're arguing that there should never be professional modders, then consider this. Creating mods takes time, effort, and energy. When someone has to work a 9-5 job to pay the bills, that doesn't leave much time and energy left over for other things like modding. After a long day's work, most people want to spend their leftover time relaxing and recovering energy, not spending it all on more work.
When you ask modders to instead use that leftover time to spend energy creating mods and give them to you for free, you're setting up an imbalance. No human can use all of their time spending energy without using some of that time to recover it back. There has to be balance. Working all day at your job, and then working all night and weekends at modding is totally unsustainable for long periods of time. People burn out. I'm guessing that's what happened here with Ex Nihilo.
Making excellent mods takes lots of time, and there's not enough time leftover after a 9-5 job for both relaxing and high-level modding. One of those three things has to go. This kickstarter is a way of asking the Minecraft community what they value more: Great mods, or the well-being of the modders. So far, the answer seems to be "great mods, and screw the modders."
You getting a completely different idea from what i'm saying. Also, didn't we just talk about not using personal interests in a conversation?
Doujin is a general Japanese term for a group of people or friends who share an interest, activity, hobbies, or achievement. The word is sometimes translated into English as clique, fandom, coterie, society, or circle. So unless your referring to the kickstarter as everyone's doujin then its not really relevant to bring it up.
Also, as I am stating while possible its hard to rely on a kickstarter for your rent/tax/etc. Some people get through with that, and some have real jobs along with their donators. Its just alot of risk really, all i'm really wondering is if he is prepared for all the risk of just a kickstarter? Also, I was asking if he really is just relying on the kickstarter.
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Curse PremiumSince no one seems to understand why doujin culture keeps getting brought up in this thread, let me explain.
From my (admittedly limited) understanding, the tradition of the doujin culture is for a fan to create a thing, and then sell it for money. Asking for money before creating the thing is doing it wrong and goes against the tradition of the doujin culture.
The person who introduced this concept to the thread had their comments deleted by a moderator, so sadly no one can follow that discussion. I though it raised some interesting points though.
I agree with this tradition for creations that are relatively small and for creations that you can actually sell access to. For creations that must be given away freely (think outdoor visual art), I don't think the create-first-pay-later models works. Especially when the upfront costs of the creation are large.
The kickstarter model makes much more sense creations that must be given away freely, because the artist can be guaranteed that the creation will be paid for before spending any time on its creation. This actually reduces a huge amount of risk for creators and is much better than the tip jar model, in my opinion.
I'm curious to know why you made your earlier post bigger of redundant information that ether I already know, or more things that you're totally getting the wrong idea from. I never said there shouldn't be professional modders, I don't appreciate words being put into my mouth.
I also don't know why you think I object to this kickstarter, while all I have is just concerns and questions. Also don't throw freely around so loosely, while it will be technically free for some others still would of had to pay for the "free mod"
So really he assumes the risks and responsibilities of freelance work? Fine, if he is successful kudos to him. I am really just more curious to a plan B, or if he has tried other things for assistance (Ex: Paetron), or the reason this will be his only line of work.