If there is an effort underway to port to 1.12, it might be worth considering if it could be done by subclassing and extending the existing player class instead of replacing it. The one drawback Smart Moving always had was that it was not compatible with third-party mod-added custom armors, or with other mods that modify the player such as Gender. There was the player class replacer add-on that made it work with third-party armors such as Thaumcraft's magnificent Thaumium Fortress armor, but that had bizarre side effects on things like Bibliocraft armor stands.
smart moving is a mission critical mod in my opinion, visual only glitches aren't even an annoyance unless i hit f5 by mistake.
also there's been a very easy to use API that other mods could and should have been plugging into to fix that issue for YEARS, smart moving has already bent over backwards trying to help, screw them if they don't care enough to fix their problems.
smart moving is a mission critical mod in my opinion, visual only glitches aren't even an annoyance unless i hit f5 by mistake.
also there's been a very easy to use API that other mods could and should have been plugging into to fix that issue for YEARS, smart moving has already bent over backwards trying to help, screw them if they don't care enough to fix their problems.
I agree on the mission critical score. Hey, vanilla, what do you mean I can't climb an obstacle that's only 2 blocks high? Almost every modern game in the world allows climbing obstacles. Most of them will let you jump up, grab, and scale an obstacle taller than you are — 3 blocks, say. Why can't Minecraft?
You're wrong IMO about the API issue. Yes, there was an API. Yes, there was even a player model enhancer. Neither should have been necessary in the first place. It's not the responsibility of every other modder who touches the player model in any way to be compatible with Smart Moving. It's Smart Moving's responsibility to implement its modifications to the player model in a way that does not force other mods to jump through additional hoops to be compatible with Smart Moving. and de-facto have both a "Smart Moving present" and a "Smart Moving not present" version of their code. This is why Thermal Expansion implemented its own covers instead of staying multipart compatible: Building Forge Multipart compatibility into every multipartable piece in Thermal Expansion de facto meant that Thermal Expansion now had torequire Forge Multipart.
Of course, IMO in a perfect world vanilla Minecraft would adopt Smart Moving's extensions to the player model. And Gender's. But in a perfect world, vanilla Minecraft would adopt a lot of things that are now done by mods, and Mojang would reward the modders for their work. But the only case I'm aware of in which this has actually happened in vanilla Minecraft is vanilla horses. (Contrast with Forge where CoFH's Redstone Flux energy API has been almost universally adopted as the standard energy API. Though there are still holdouts of course ... I'm looking at you, IC².)
I agree on the mission critical score. Hey, vanilla, what do you mean I can't climb an obstacle that's only 2 blocks high? Almost every modern game in the world allows climbing obstacles. Most of them will let you jump up, grab, and scale an obstacle taller than you are — 3 blocks, say. Why can't Minecraft?
You're wrong IMO about the API issue. Yes, there was an API. Yes, there was even a player model enhancer. Neither should have been necessary in the first place. It's not the responsibility of every other modder who touches the player model in any way to be compatible with Smart Moving. It's Smart Moving's responsibility to implement its modifications to the player model in a way that does not force other mods to jump through additional hoops to be compatible with Smart Moving. and de-facto have both a "Smart Moving present" and a "Smart Moving not present" version of their code. This is why Thermal Expansion implemented its own covers instead of staying multipart compatible: Building Forge Multipart compatibility into every multipartable piece in Thermal Expansion de facto meant that Thermal Expansion now had torequire Forge Multipart.
Of course, IMO in a perfect world vanilla Minecraft would adopt Smart Moving's extensions to the player model. And Gender's. But in a perfect world, vanilla Minecraft would adopt a lot of things that are now done by mods, and Mojang would reward the modders for their work. But the only case I'm aware of in which this has actually happened in vanilla Minecraft is vanilla horses. (Contrast with Forge where CoFH's Redstone Flux energy API has been almost universally adopted as the standard energy API. Though there are still holdouts of course ... I'm looking at you, IC².)
you say neither should have been necessary in the first place, however if that were really the case divisor would have never seen fit to alter the minecraft player character and how it animates so drastically and smart moving would never have existed.
i cannot agree.
i also can't agree that one mod being able to identify another's presence is really that much to ask, no way in heck, not even remotely, i know for a fact versions of tinkers construct and natura confirm to each other their presence or lack thereof, there's no reason not to except being lazy was easier and sloppier.
edit: to be clear, in my opinion smart moving should have been merged with forge or vanilla years ago, it's really silly why they still haven't to be honest either.
lastly, the crawling is the big feature for me, do not want to play without.
Crawling is really an important feature, yeah, sometimes as important as climbing. No disagreement there.
There's a difference between identifying another mod's presence and enabling support for it, though, and having massively different code depending whether another mod is present or not because that mod chose to create its own player class from scratch and totally replace the vanilla player class rather than simply extending the vanilla class. Several other mod developers have called this out as a fundamental design error on Divisor's part. The fact that Smart Moving is so freaking awesomely useful does not negate that design error.
Crawling is really an important feature, yeah, sometimes as important as climbing. No disagreement there.
There's a difference between identifying another mod's presence and enabling support for it, though, and having massively different code depending whether another mod is present or not because that mod chose to create its own player class from scratch and totally replace the vanilla player class rather than simply extending the vanilla class. Several other mod developers have called this out as a fundamental design error on Divisor's part. The fact that Smart Moving is so freaking awesomely useful does not negate that design error.
it doesn't need to be "massively different" it just needs to go "oh you have smart moving, i'll disable the vanilla fallbacks and use the correct way" and that's about it, mod developers need to stop doing it wrong because it's easier is the real issue.
1. Yes, everything seems to work great! Excellent job on the port.
2. It's so nice to have Superman-style fly-where-you-look back. Gods of Chaos, I hate creative flight. Yes, creative flight is better than no flight at all, but having a refrigerator dropped on your foot is better than being stabbed in the eye with a sharpened stick, too.
3. I seem to be running into a few ...sync issues maybe? I had a sign that took me five tries to break, another that vanished when broken, and a half-dozen or so chunks of netherrack that also just vanished when broken.
4. See the console log spam issue above.
Now, that said and with massive thanks to ScienceDrummer for the update/port (I cannot emphasize that enough), there are some bugs present that are inherent in SmartMoving. For instance, if I turn around in third person view, my Thaumcraft Goggles of Revealing are suddenly on the back of my head, and my Optifine cloak is hanging down my chest like a bib. They don't move with me when I swim, fly or crawl, either, and if I go into third-person mode when I'm within sight of armor on a Bibliocraft armor stand (I haven't tested it with vanilla armor stands yet), the armor on the stand spins around like a dervish.
I want to stress these issues are not the fault of ScienceDrummer's port. They are a consequence of the underlying design decision in Smart Moving to replace, rather than extend, the vanilla player model. Many other modders have pointed to this when asked "Why isn't your mod compatible with Smart Moving?", and said, "No, you have it backwards, it's Smart Moving that is incompatible with everything else."
Disclaimer: I am not a modder myself (learning Java and modding is on my to-do-someday list) and don't know enough about the internals of Minecraft to know how difficult it is to extend the player model in a compatible way.
I do note that Divisor used to have a Player API Helper (or was it API Extender?) add-on that patched player API calls by other mods to help with these mod-interaction bugs. (My recollection is that it fixed all the ones I'm aware of except the armor-stand whirling-dervish bug and compatibility with iPixeli's Gender Mod, and the Gender Mod hasn't been updated to 1.12 yet.)
I don't know if Divisor plans on doing anything more with Smart Moving. But it would be really fantastic if some experienced modder would take on the task of looking into the core Smart Moving code and seeing whether it is possible to re-implement it in a way that does not result in incompatibility with every other mod that uses the player model in any way.
it's unclear where science drummer and Tommys64 are the same person or not, but based on reading comments i am going to assume this is not the case, as far as i can tell science drummer found the update, but did not actually do any of the programming.
as far as i understand the way github works is issues must be reported to the main repository and not a fork, either that or issues have not been setup to be accepted, i've asked which is the correct place to report issues but for now the main repository should work just fine.
3. I seem to be running into a few ...sync issues maybe? I had a sign that took me five tries to break, another that vanished when broken, and a half-dozen or so chunks of netherrack that also just vanished when broken.
quote snipped for length.
also try running the mod by itself with just FML (minecraft forge) and nothing else and see if you still have issues first.
THE MINECRAFT FORUMS EDITOR IS COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE, THIS FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IS A QUOTE.
Now, that said and with massive thanks to ScienceDrummer for the update/port (I cannot emphasize that enough), there are some bugs present that are inherent in SmartMoving. For instance, if I turn around in third person view, my Thaumcraft Goggles of Revealing are suddenly on the back of my head, and my Optifine cloak is hanging down my chest like a bib. They don't move with me when I swim, fly or crawl, either, and if I go into third-person mode when I'm within sight of armor on a Bibliocraft armor stand (I haven't tested it with vanilla armor stands yet), the armor on the stand spins around like a dervish.
THE MINECRAFT FORUMS EDITOR IS COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE, THE PRECEDING PARAGRAPH WAS A QUOTE.
this is expected behavior and nothing out of the ordinary, from what i understand the update has made minimal changes only to port the mod to the current minecraft version for compatibility, from what i can tell there are absolutely zero new features or changes to expected behavior.
this is a feature request, you can make it on github to the main repository link provided above as an issue with the selection of "feature request".
SORRY FOR SO MANY EDITS, THIS POST IS NOW FINAL, THIS FORUMS SOFTWARE IS SERIOUSLY THE WORST PIECE OF SOFTWARE I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.
Yeah, I know the behaviors are expected. I tried to make it clear that these were legacy issues that SmartMoving has always had, and that were MOSTLY but not completely fixed by the API Extender add-on. I also tried to make it as clear as I could that I am not in any way placing any blame whatsoever on the port.
I share your pain with the forum editor. (If anything, it's gotten worse over time.)
And ScienceDrummer, I thought you and TommyS64 were one and the same with different usernames on different sites. My error.
TommyS64, apologies for stealing your thunder, I didn't realize I was misattributing.
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he stated on the main github issues page that at current all he's done is port it to current versions and he'll need some time to understand more of how the mod functions to do much else btw, just letting you guys know, in the meantime, mods should and if they care to be compatible, will use the provided API, there may never be a way around that also, it is simply how it works.
Unfortunately they will be the fault of them soon enough, once the port gets more popular. They will demand it working, and to be honest, I have seen what coding is capable of. An extended "check for" could be the solution to creating an algorithm to detect and implement armours that are alien to the mod. Plus, I hope that swimming in 1.13 will bring some more stability to movement soon enough and maybe even feature that very same solution I just proposed. Or at least a part of it.
smart moving is a mission critical mod in my opinion, visual only glitches aren't even an annoyance unless i hit f5 by mistake.
also there's been a very easy to use API that other mods could and should have been plugging into to fix that issue for YEARS, smart moving has already bent over backwards trying to help, screw them if they don't care enough to fix their problems.
I agree on the mission critical score. Hey, vanilla, what do you mean I can't climb an obstacle that's only 2 blocks high? Almost every modern game in the world allows climbing obstacles. Most of them will let you jump up, grab, and scale an obstacle taller than you are — 3 blocks, say. Why can't Minecraft?
You're wrong IMO about the API issue. Yes, there was an API. Yes, there was even a player model enhancer. Neither should have been necessary in the first place. It's not the responsibility of every other modder who touches the player model in any way to be compatible with Smart Moving. It's Smart Moving's responsibility to implement its modifications to the player model in a way that does not force other mods to jump through additional hoops to be compatible with Smart Moving. and de-facto have both a "Smart Moving present" and a "Smart Moving not present" version of their code. This is why Thermal Expansion implemented its own covers instead of staying multipart compatible: Building Forge Multipart compatibility into every multipartable piece in Thermal Expansion de facto meant that Thermal Expansion now had to require Forge Multipart.
Of course, IMO in a perfect world vanilla Minecraft would adopt Smart Moving's extensions to the player model. And Gender's. But in a perfect world, vanilla Minecraft would adopt a lot of things that are now done by mods, and Mojang would reward the modders for their work. But the only case I'm aware of in which this has actually happened in vanilla Minecraft is vanilla horses. (Contrast with Forge where CoFH's Redstone Flux energy API has been almost universally adopted as the standard energy API. Though there are still holdouts of course ... I'm looking at you, IC².)
you say neither should have been necessary in the first place, however if that were really the case divisor would have never seen fit to alter the minecraft player character and how it animates so drastically and smart moving would never have existed.
i cannot agree.
i also can't agree that one mod being able to identify another's presence is really that much to ask, no way in heck, not even remotely, i know for a fact versions of tinkers construct and natura confirm to each other their presence or lack thereof, there's no reason not to except being lazy was easier and sloppier.
edit: to be clear, in my opinion smart moving should have been merged with forge or vanilla years ago, it's really silly why they still haven't to be honest either.
lastly, the crawling is the big feature for me, do not want to play without.
Crawling is really an important feature, yeah, sometimes as important as climbing. No disagreement there.
There's a difference between identifying another mod's presence and enabling support for it, though, and having massively different code depending whether another mod is present or not because that mod chose to create its own player class from scratch and totally replace the vanilla player class rather than simply extending the vanilla class. Several other mod developers have called this out as a fundamental design error on Divisor's part. The fact that Smart Moving is so freaking awesomely useful does not negate that design error.
it doesn't need to be "massively different" it just needs to go "oh you have smart moving, i'll disable the vanilla fallbacks and use the correct way" and that's about it, mod developers need to stop doing it wrong because it's easier is the real issue.
Hello Divisor can you please update the mod to 1.12.2 please. I will understand if you can't do it.
So tell me if you can or can't.
Oh sh*t guys. https://github.com/Tommsy64/SmartMoving/releases/tag/1.12.2-16.4-RC3
awesome, i'm gonna fire up a new instance and drop them all in and see what explodes.
[edit] gets in game fine, nothing appears to be broken at first glance, climbing and crawling work, nothing else tested [/edit]
My hand is missing though, which sucks. :/
I don't know how to use Github.
Does this mean the mod is now working?
Yes, I AM a Vampire. Nice of you to notice.
Why is that box so big? What do you mean I should stop breaking the fourth wall?
it means there's release candidate 3 download versions of it.
as i posted before, i didn't test much at all but it appeared functional from the very limited testing i've done.
Firing it up...
This RC is constantly flooding my console with:
OK, having tested a bit:
1. Yes, everything seems to work great! Excellent job on the port.
2. It's so nice to have Superman-style fly-where-you-look back. Gods of Chaos, I hate creative flight. Yes, creative flight is better than no flight at all, but having a refrigerator dropped on your foot is better than being stabbed in the eye with a sharpened stick, too.
3. I seem to be running into a few ...sync issues maybe? I had a sign that took me five tries to break, another that vanished when broken, and a half-dozen or so chunks of netherrack that also just vanished when broken.
4. See the console log spam issue above.
Now, that said and with massive thanks to ScienceDrummer for the update/port (I cannot emphasize that enough), there are some bugs present that are inherent in SmartMoving. For instance, if I turn around in third person view, my Thaumcraft Goggles of Revealing are suddenly on the back of my head, and my Optifine cloak is hanging down my chest like a bib. They don't move with me when I swim, fly or crawl, either, and if I go into third-person mode when I'm within sight of armor on a Bibliocraft armor stand (I haven't tested it with vanilla armor stands yet), the armor on the stand spins around like a dervish.
I want to stress these issues are not the fault of ScienceDrummer's port. They are a consequence of the underlying design decision in Smart Moving to replace, rather than extend, the vanilla player model. Many other modders have pointed to this when asked "Why isn't your mod compatible with Smart Moving?", and said, "No, you have it backwards, it's Smart Moving that is incompatible with everything else."
Disclaimer: I am not a modder myself (learning Java and modding is on my to-do-someday list) and don't know enough about the internals of Minecraft to know how difficult it is to extend the player model in a compatible way.
I do note that Divisor used to have a Player API Helper (or was it API Extender?) add-on that patched player API calls by other mods to help with these mod-interaction bugs. (My recollection is that it fixed all the ones I'm aware of except the armor-stand whirling-dervish bug and compatibility with iPixeli's Gender Mod, and the Gender Mod hasn't been updated to 1.12 yet.)
I don't know if Divisor plans on doing anything more with Smart Moving. But it would be really fantastic if some experienced modder would take on the task of looking into the core Smart Moving code and seeing whether it is possible to re-implement it in a way that does not result in incompatibility with every other mod that uses the player model in any way.
apparently some people didn't notice the link before, but in divisor's absence the official place is here on github:
https://github.com/Tommsy64/SmartMoving
it's unclear where science drummer and Tommys64 are the same person or not, but based on reading comments i am going to assume this is not the case, as far as i can tell science drummer found the update, but did not actually do any of the programming.
as far as i understand the way github works is issues must be reported to the main repository and not a fork, either that or issues have not been setup to be accepted, i've asked which is the correct place to report issues but for now the main repository should work just fine.
quote snipped for length.
also try running the mod by itself with just FML (minecraft forge) and nothing else and see if you still have issues first.
THE MINECRAFT FORUMS EDITOR IS COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE, THIS FOLLOWING PARAGRAPH IS A QUOTE.
Now, that said and with massive thanks to ScienceDrummer for the update/port (I cannot emphasize that enough), there are some bugs present that are inherent in SmartMoving. For instance, if I turn around in third person view, my Thaumcraft Goggles of Revealing are suddenly on the back of my head, and my Optifine cloak is hanging down my chest like a bib. They don't move with me when I swim, fly or crawl, either, and if I go into third-person mode when I'm within sight of armor on a Bibliocraft armor stand (I haven't tested it with vanilla armor stands yet), the armor on the stand spins around like a dervish.
THE MINECRAFT FORUMS EDITOR IS COMPLETE AND TOTAL GARBAGE, THE PRECEDING PARAGRAPH WAS A QUOTE.
this is expected behavior and nothing out of the ordinary, from what i understand the update has made minimal changes only to port the mod to the current minecraft version for compatibility, from what i can tell there are absolutely zero new features or changes to expected behavior.
this is a feature request, you can make it on github to the main repository link provided above as an issue with the selection of "feature request".
SORRY FOR SO MANY EDITS, THIS POST IS NOW FINAL, THIS FORUMS SOFTWARE IS SERIOUSLY THE WORST PIECE OF SOFTWARE I'VE EVER SEEN IN MY ENTIRE LIFE.
Ok, for some reason my reply is missing but yeah, I didn't make the port, Tommys64 made it.
Tommys64 has informed me that he had issue reporting for his fork disabled before, please report issues here:
https://github.com/Tommsy64/SmartMoving/issues
Thanks for the pointer.
Yeah, I know the behaviors are expected. I tried to make it clear that these were legacy issues that SmartMoving has always had, and that were MOSTLY but not completely fixed by the API Extender add-on. I also tried to make it as clear as I could that I am not in any way placing any blame whatsoever on the port.
I share your pain with the forum editor. (If anything, it's gotten worse over time.)
And ScienceDrummer, I thought you and TommyS64 were one and the same with different usernames on different sites. My error.
TommyS64, apologies for stealing your thunder, I didn't realize I was misattributing.
he stated on the main github issues page that at current all he's done is port it to current versions and he'll need some time to understand more of how the mod functions to do much else btw, just letting you guys know, in the meantime, mods should and if they care to be compatible, will use the provided API, there may never be a way around that also, it is simply how it works.
Unfortunately they will be the fault of them soon enough, once the port gets more popular. They will demand it working, and to be honest, I have seen what coding is capable of. An extended "check for" could be the solution to creating an algorithm to detect and implement armours that are alien to the mod. Plus, I hope that swimming in 1.13 will bring some more stability to movement soon enough and maybe even feature that very same solution I just proposed. Or at least a part of it.
Yes, I AM a Vampire. Nice of you to notice.
Why is that box so big? What do you mean I should stop breaking the fourth wall?