No one is dismissing anyone's work. I prefaced my post with adoration for the three series mentioned. Anyone that spends 20+ hours making a custom map for free should be praised.
However, I think you overlooked my point. Ratings are useless unless they are comparable. There needs to be some consensus/benchmark for what is appropriate. Otherwise they are absolutely pointless and misleading.
For example, if a 10 is super hostile and a 9 is Vinyl Fantasy, where do we go from there? Should we just give each "nice" map a 9? Based on what? I could go on further, but it makes more sense to boil all of this irritation in one point.
The rating system, if used, should be an all or nothing system. Meaning that, if used, the system should panel each category the same, and place each map series on the same playing field. It's illogical to argue that a series is a 9 because you (personally) liked it. A subjective response can be riddled with holes without empirical data.
Which brings me to Killfish, who makes a laundry list of good points. In fact, they are all good . But to keep things simple, if ratings are going to be used, there needs to be some sort of community polling. It won't be perfect (mostly because it still leaves room for foul play [i.e. faux accounts, gathering friends]), but it's much better than the system in place now.
The overengineering series is incredible. And I thought some CTM mapmakers were good at redstone...
To Ani0Tokene and others concerned about the ratings, feel free to send me a review/rating you think is more just. If it's better written and seems to more evenly consider the map, I'll replace the current commentary. I don't have time to play all these maps, (not even close!) and that's why I rely on others' reviews. I'm the first to admit it's not a perfect system.
Regarding particular series mentioned:
Super Hostile- It is a bit of politicking that gives it the max rating. But you also need to consider the sheer number of consistently great maps he has put out. I don't think any map series with 2-3 maps deserves the highest rating.
Corrupt Lands- I have not played much of these maps, but considering their popularity and how much I see them played in LPs, I considered the rating okay.
Forgotten Lands- I believe this series completely deserves its rating.
Tenebrous- Honestly, I was leery of letting the 9 rating slide, considering my reviewer seemed very over-zealous claming "best map ever" and wanting a 10 at first just a few days after the map was released.
Twisted Logic- This may deserve a 9 at this point, as the rating doesn't yet reflect Moon II
The way your favorites lie, I'm not sure your mindset isn't "newer is always better." Maybe you should find a way to look at the older maps with fresh eyes? Just an idea.
I played a lot of CTM's, and this community / thread is great. I thought I'd give something back by reviewing a few maps.
I might or might not write more reviews in the future - just let me know if you want me to.
I'd very much like more reviews! I find them to be quite fair. I added your commentaries on Absolute Phenom and Warped Precision. It seemed appropriate to give you a salmon color.
Cool, thanks for adding them. Why didn't you add the other ones, though? I can kinda get why you didn't add the TL one, it's pretty similar to yours.
So, salmon color is "appropriate"? ;D I think I can see why... I don't care too much about the color, the only problem here is that it could probably be mistaken with orange pretty easily.
Running out of colors, man!
I don't add commentaries for single maps! Make sure it's a series before you review it!
To Ani0Tokene and others concerned about the ratings, feel free to send me a review/rating you think is more just. If it's better written and seems to more evenly consider the map, I'll replace the current commentary. I don't have time to play all these maps, (not even close!) and that's why I rely on others' reviews. I'm the first to admit it's not a perfect system.
Regarding particular series mentioned:
Super Hostile- It is a bit of politicking that gives it the max rating. But you also need to consider the sheer number of consistently great maps he has put out. I don't think any map series with 2-3 maps deserves the highest rating.
Corrupt Lands- I have not played much of these maps, but considering their popularity and how much I see them played in LPs, I considered the rating okay.
Forgotten Lands- I believe this series completely deserves its rating.
Tenebrous- Honestly, I was leery of letting the 9 rating slide, considering my reviewer seemed very over-zealous claming "best map ever" and wanting a 10 at first just a few days after the map was released.
Twisted Logic- This may deserve a 9 at this point, as the rating doesn't yet reflect Moon II
The way your favorites lie, I'm not sure your mindset isn't "newer is always better." Maybe you should find a way to look at the older maps with fresh eyes? Just an idea.
Discussion like this is totally welcome btw.
If extra reviews is what it takes, then I'll try to make some free time. I'm glad your open to discussing. I really enjoy CTM central aside from the rating system. I thought about it some more and I think I realized why it's annoying me so much.
The rating system, 1-10, has no defining characteristics. Meaning that a difference between an 7, 8, 9, and 10, or any other number in that group, is just whether or not it is higher or lower. Maybe a 5 = average and a 10 = Masterpiece.
I guess it is hard for me to recognize series with just 2 maps as 9s. I mean, where are they going to go from there? Is there potential for a rating to decrease?
And to your last comment z_bill, I really enjoy playing maps that are built well. When I see obvious MC or worledit brush strokes, boring layouts, or recycled content from other mapmakers, I just turn off from a map. Maybe that is my own fault, but I recognize it. I enjoy playing dated content as well, I just have a keen eye for detail. Maybe I just disagree with the (3) individual maps that are rated as 9s.
Stop basing everything around Vinyl Fantasy and Super Hostile.
....
It's hard not to use the top rated 2 CTM maps as benchmarks. If the rating system was devised such as 1= awful, 5 = average, 9 = outstanding and 10 = masterpiece (or something like that) then it would make sense to me and I would let it go. Because with that system, the maps are graded against a scale, rather than other maps! But without that clarification, it is misleading.
I guess it is hard for me to recognize series with just 2 maps as 9s. I mean, where are they going to go from there? Is there potential for a rating to decrease?Obviously. You can shift between Lethamyr and Inferno Mines as seen in Super Hostile.
....
It's hard not to use the top rated 2 CTM maps as benchmarks. If the rating system was devised such as 1= awful, 5 = average, 9 = outstanding and 10 = masterpiece (or something like that) then it would make sense to me and I would let it go. Because with that system, the maps are graded against a scale, rather than other maps! But without that clarification, it is misleading.
Run a country on opinions, and you're bankrupt and rioted within the second week.
Well, giving feedback on the particular thread is something I always do, but the fact that you can or should do that isn't a reason for not allowing us to rate standalone maps in this thread. A lot of those are way more well-done than a "series" of two rushed maps.
Post size shouldn't be a problem at all - I would just put the reviews in spoiler tags.
If you guys want, post the reviews for standalone maps in the thread. I don't have the time to upkeep all the reviews for single maps, plus it sets the precedent that we will have reviews for every CTM map, which obviously isn't something we can do or I can maintain.
Naxza, can you message that review to me with the features/commentary formatting please? Thanks a lot!
The overengineering series is incredible. And I thought some CTM mapmakers were good at redstone...
Are you talking about my screenshot?
Regarding particular series mentioned:
Super Hostile- It is a bit of politicking that gives it the max rating. But you also need to consider the sheer number of consistently great maps he has put out. I don't think any map series with 2-3 maps deserves the highest rating.
Corrupt Lands- I have not played much of these maps, but considering their popularity and how much I see them played in LPs, I considered the rating okay.
Forgotten Lands- I believe this series completely deserves its rating.
Tenebrous- Honestly, I was leery of letting the 9 rating slide, considering my reviewer seemed very over-zealous claming "best map ever" and wanting a 10 at first just a few days after the map was released.
Twisted Logic- This may deserve a 9 at this point, as the rating doesn't yet reflect Moon II
The way your favorites lie, I'm not sure your mindset isn't "newer is always better." Maybe you should find a way to look at the older maps with fresh eyes? Just an idea.
Discussion like this is totally welcome btw.
I'd very much like more reviews! I find them to be quite fair. I added your commentaries on Absolute Phenom and Warped Precision. It seemed appropriate to give you a salmon color.
The series needs to have 2 maps before it is added to the series list. It will be added to the normal list by zbill though.
Running out of colors, man!
I don't add commentaries for single maps! Make sure it's a series before you review it!
If extra reviews is what it takes, then I'll try to make some free time. I'm glad your open to discussing. I really enjoy CTM central aside from the rating system. I thought about it some more and I think I realized why it's annoying me so much.
The rating system, 1-10, has no defining characteristics. Meaning that a difference between an 7, 8, 9, and 10, or any other number in that group, is just whether or not it is higher or lower. Maybe a 5 = average and a 10 = Masterpiece.
I guess it is hard for me to recognize series with just 2 maps as 9s. I mean, where are they going to go from there? Is there potential for a rating to decrease?
And to your last comment z_bill, I really enjoy playing maps that are built well. When I see obvious MC or worledit brush strokes, boring layouts, or recycled content from other mapmakers, I just turn off from a map. Maybe that is my own fault, but I recognize it. I enjoy playing dated content as well, I just have a keen eye for detail. Maybe I just disagree with the (3) individual maps that are rated as 9s.
....
It's hard not to use the top rated 2 CTM maps as benchmarks. If the rating system was devised such as 1= awful, 5 = average, 9 = outstanding and 10 = masterpiece (or something like that) then it would make sense to me and I would let it go. Because with that system, the maps are graded against a scale, rather than other maps! But without that clarification, it is misleading.
Run a country on opinions, and you're bankrupt and rioted within the second week.
Looks great! Very subtle and creepy, nice
PvE Arena trailer
Mappers are going to have a LOT of fun when 1.3 is released.
You guys are all screwed.
It is password protected so random people can't just download it. The password is the IP of the server. If you have any problem just PM me
If you guys want, post the reviews for standalone maps in the thread. I don't have the time to upkeep all the reviews for single maps, plus it sets the precedent that we will have reviews for every CTM map, which obviously isn't something we can do or I can maintain.
Naxza, can you message that review to me with the features/commentary formatting please? Thanks a lot!
Great review again. I feel that you and killfish give the best and most comprehensive reviews on CTM maps.