Attention: if you support this thread chances are you will support my space thread. Go to http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/683793-spaaaaaaeeeeeeesssssss/ for an actual space thread (as opposed to simply talking about the opposition against space threads) and also for a space banner you can post in your signature! If by chance the link does not work, edit out the squares in the address bar and refresh. If it still doenst work PM me. Also there is a much more popular and better thread which I provide a link to within my thread so check that out too.
Its annoying when people agree with your thread, but dont take the time to hit the like button. People, please hit the like button if you agree with me. By hitting the like button, you are not necessarily agreeing with the title of the topic; that was more or less just a way to attract peoples attention, and seeing it now, I regret not being able to think of something else. Its not realistic to limit someones ability to speak out, even if it is stupid, because then it backfires eventually on the people that arent stupid. If anything, short and biased comments should recieve a warning, being judged by smart and impartial moderators and forum admins. This is further elaborated on page 3 of the comments by yoshi9048.
First of all, you need to realize that by not supporting threads that condone space travel/technology, you are SEVERELY limiting what the player can do. Sure, redstone has its uses, but what is actually acheivable with redstone is negligable. Yeah you can build a theoretical computer in minecraft with redstone, but look how much work it took you, and look at how little it actually achieved! Without technology, the player cant do anything with his resources: There can be no automated mineing equipment, no automated building equipment, what the player can do with what he builds is next to nothing, besides making it look pretty. If you visit the my space thread you will find a link to a much more intrigueing thread that details massive warships and huge SMP possibilities that are not achievable with the overly conservative views surrounding the minecraft forum. What about a fantasy equivalent of each scifi object mentioned? What about a magic airship that can travel through space? Its powered by redstone, and redstone is magic really.
Its a very biased and overused critique to other peoples threads. What makes this all more true is that I made a thread detailing how scifi and fantsy could get along, pleasing both parties. An reasonable compromise that was shot down. I do like scifi a bit more than fantasy, but fantasy hasnt thrown me. Why cant they get along in Minecraft; Like in Warhammer 40k, Star Ocean, or Final Fantasy? I want technology because it would multiply the amount of things the player could do. If you still want that peaceful simple village of non machinary, so be it. You still have that choice. Hey guys, dont get me wrong I love games that happen to be fantasy such as Elder Scrolls.
An even better example people would be much more familiar with would be Star Wars. Yes thats right. Not only because The Force is magic by definition, but also because you see alot of ancient traditions and primitive technologies alongside more modern traditions and advanced technology.
This mod is an example of what Minecraft could feature. Its a very prime example and is part 1 of 6 so look for more on youtube if you are interested (there is a nuclear reactor in 4 I think).
So JackTDawson pretty much summed up how I feel. Thank you Jack. Here is his post:
BEFORE I found out that Minecraft was to be running during the time period of medieval times, I often had wanted more out of the game. I wanted the ability to make advanced civilizations. I mean, if you think about it, it's mine CRAFT.. You craft your world. The title to the game is not Medieval Craft. So when it was announced that this game was turning toward medieval setting, I was disappointed and had quit the game. I got bored. But, things have been added lately that brought me back not because of the medieval setting, but because I like seeing the variety of the biomes and animals and what you can CRAFT with it.
But will it last ? Medieval times will only hold people for so long. The reason we like minecraft to begin with is the ability to craft and build our world. NOT a Role Playing Game. Now I'm not saying RPG and medieval should be removed. No not at all. I'm saying, the game should still have the ability to craft even advanced items for those of us who want it. If you take a look at all the mods / plugins for the bukkit server, it will be recognized that people WANT the ability to create cities and towns. And from the videos we have seen lately, like the Vector YouTube videos, that's exactly what some have done.
Which brings us to another point, RPGs. Role Playing Games are a cool idea, but a lot of us feel it should not be the focus of the game. I'm on the fence about it because I'm using the "Wait and See" method to see which direction this is all going before saying "I love it" or "I hate it".
If one does a search for MMOs out there, FANTASY ( medieval themes ) have been done to DEATH in a ton of the games out there. So having a CRAFTING game stop at medieval technology, is just a shame and very disappointing. Again, I repeat, its a crafting game, its why we play it. There is already a ton of MMO RPG medieval type of games out there. Take WURM online for example, also started by Notch and has not gone any further then the medieval time period. And as much as its a cool game, its player base is small relative to Minecraft. So why the appeal to Minecraft ? Because your not forced to play this game in one specific way. I mean, whats the point of being creative when you run out of things to build because the game has a stopping point in the medieval times. People will get bored. I know I will.
Some will say "Well then you don't have to play it". Well if you think about it, the reason we are playing it is because of the freedom to BUILD WHATEVER we want. That is being taken away from us, and its a #1 reason others have been programming their own version of Minecraft. Its why we have so many different clones out there. Not to mention the plugins that give us the ability to make things like a computer inside of Minecraft. Which has NOTHING to do with Medieval times.
You see, keep in mind, other game companies are watching MoJang. They are watching the mistakes that are being made because they will scoop up on this whole crafting idea if Minecraft fails. And Its why I support this thread, I am using the "wait and see where this is going" method before making my final decision on weather or not this game is worth my time. And yes, other companies want to make a game that IS worth your time so you'll keep buying their games / updates / Expansions.
DARKMAGIC101 also does a fine job of explaining how we spacers/techies feel:
I feel the more you play the easier things should get, start with wood get stone, then iron then diamond. Being able to build big mining machines(like the ones in BuildCraft) would be next in my list. Now to the point. I feel the setting of minecraft is much like the game "Age of Empires", you start primitive, living in mud hunts, then you build up to medieval and so forth. I feel that in minecraft you are constantly progressing.
Why not progress pass medieval and go to industrial? You can still have fantasy. Being able to go to space in the future doesn't seem all ridiculous to me. I think (although many may disagree), the theme of the game not Fantasy, but progression, and progression to me has no setting set in stone.
On a smaller note, the example video above is not implying that "exactly that" should be applied directly to vanilla. Im suggesting that most or all of it should be included in Minecraft, but not necessarily the same way. One such thing that would not be the same if it was included in minecraft would be the ease of making automated equiptment. Automated equiptment should be something of an investment the player should only be able to make way down the road in the game, so as to preserve the survival element in Minecraft more. This thread is not about including said elements into Minecraft; it is about whether or not technology at all as a whole should be included ever.
So Ive included another poll question which is slightly off topic. Should game difficulty increase as you progress beyond your original spawn point (meaning more monsters/different monsters/etc)? And if not, there needs to be an increasing difficulty as you progress through the game, so how else? Please elaborate.
So share your thoughts and lets argue about it until the end of time.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
LoL
In all seriousness, things like guns and space travle really doesn't fit in with minecraft,since minecraft was ment to be mid-evil.
If you want to get technical with redstone, you could say that its primative wiring, based on magnets. Since it can make compasses, and with the whole inversion of power thing.
I would use my "Magic space boots" to fly across the sky to get to my flying doggie and go on a magical adventure to go beat up the last of the muffin army :biggrin.gif:
If i dont get that i would just be bored :sad.gif:
If something like space travel was ever included in Minecraft, it wouldn't be through normal or traditional sci-fi means. I can't imagine using a spaceship in any capacity. However, there's already a lot of portals to other worlds which are assumed to be alternate dimensions, but they could very well just be other planets. In which case, space travel is already in the game.
As for the magic plasma gun? I think it's more power than the player is meant to have easy access to. If you look at the weapons and items you can get and carry with you in the game, I've noticed Notch keeps the player relatively weak. It's only through lots of work that you can get things like potions to even partially increase your power.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
If something like space travel was ever included in Minecraft, it wouldn't be through normal or traditional sci-fi means. I can't imagine using a spaceship in any capacity. However, there's already a lot of portals to other worlds which are assumed to be alternate dimensions, but they could very well just be other planets. In which case, space travel is already in the game.
As for the magic plasma gun? I think it's more power than the player is meant to have easy access to. If you look at the weapons and items you can get and carry with you in the game, I've noticed Notch keeps the player relatively weak. It's only through lots of work that you can get things like potions to even partially increase your power.
I never suggested something like that would be something the player "should have easy access to".
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Space would be nice if it was really expensive. Imagine flying around discovering planets. amazing. I want my own GIANT space ship like the zeppelin. It would be amazing. So i agree to more stuff to work with. More redstone maybe?
Its a weak argument, and one that is used much too frequently. An idea whether good or bad is always scrutinized by this remark. The game already has redstone which is basically a sort of magic dust that makes technology possible and so if you were to create a sort of "plasma gun or something" it would be a "MAGIC plasma gun or something" which by definition fits in in with fantasy since it is MAGIC. I made a thread that detailed space travel, and how fantasy and scifi could get along just fine together, pleasing both parties. Magic will be in the game if you havent already heard, and so when I heard of this I dreamt of how one day Minecraft might feature an expansion allowing space travel and advanced technology, alongside otherworldly things making something like Star Ocean or Warhammer 40k, or something of the Final Fantasy series which feature just that.
This mod is a prime example of what Minecraft could feature. Its a very prime example and is part 1 of 6 so look for more on youtube if you are interested (there is a nuclear reactor in 4 I think).
So share your thoughts and lets argue about it until the end of time.
There's nothing wrong with a futuristic mod. However, adding in futuristic elements would get out of control. The setting keeps a general order to the game. It doesn't fit with the setting to be exploring 15th century mine caverns with a pistol, or flying a plane while bone creatures shoot arrows at you. Redstone is a mineral that can carry electricity. That should be as far as technology goes.
BEFORE I found out that Minecraft was to be running during the time period of medieval times, I often had wanted more out of the game. I wanted the ability to make advanced civilizations. I mean, if you think about it, it's mine CRAFT.. You craft your world. The title to the game is not Medieval Craft. So when it was announced that this game was turning toward medieval setting, I was disappointed and had quit the game. I got bored. But, things have been added lately that brought me back not because of the medieval setting, but because I like seeing the variety of the biomes and animals and what you can CRAFT with it.
But will it last ? Medieval times will only hold people for so long. The reason we like minecraft to begin with is the ability to craft and build our world. NOT a Role Playing Game. Now I'm not saying RPG and medieval should be removed. No not at all. I'm saying, the game should still have the ability to craft even advanced items for those of us who want it. If you take a look at all the mods / plugins for the bukkit server, it will be recognized that people WANT the ability to create cities and towns. And from the videos we have seen lately, like the , that's exactly what some have done.
Which brings us to another point, RPGs. Role Playing Games are a cool idea, but a lot of us feel it should not be the focus of the game. I'm on the fence about it because I'm using the "Wait and See" method to see which direction this is all going before saying "I love it" or "I hate it".
If one does a search for MMOs out there, FANTASY ( medieval themes ) have been done to DEATH in a ton of the games out there. So having a CRAFTING game stop at medieval technology, is just a shame and very disappointing. Again, I repeat, its a crafting game, its why we play it. There is already a ton of MMO RPG medieval type of games out there. Take WURM online for example, also started by Notch and has not gone any further then the medieval time period. And as much as its a cool game, its player base is small relative to Minecraft. So why the appeal to Minecraft ? Because your not forced to play this game in one specific way. I mean, whats the point of being creative when you run out of things to build because the game has a stopping point in the medieval times. People will get bored. I know I will.
Some will say "Well then you don't have to play it". Well if you think about it, the reason we are playing it is because of the freedom to BUILD WHATEVER we want. That is being taken away from us, and its a #1 reason others have been programming their own version of Minecraft. Its why we have so many different clones out there. Not to mention the plugins that give us the ability to make things like a computer inside of Minecraft. Which has NOTHING to do with Medieval times.
You see, keep in mind, other game companies are watching MoJang. They are watching the mistakes that are being made because they will scoop up on this whole crafting idea if Minecraft fails. And Its why I support this thread, I am using the "wait and see where this is going" method before making my final decision on weather or not this game is worth my time. And yes, other companies want to make a game that IS worth your time so you'll keep buying their games / updates / Expansions.
There's nothing wrong with a futuristic mod. However, adding in futuristic elements would get out of control. The setting keeps a general order to the game. It doesn't fit with the setting to be exploring 15th century mine caverns with a pistol, or flying a plane while bone creatures shoot arrows at you. Redstone is a mineral that can carry electricity. That should be as far as technology goes.
*snip*
EDIT: The person above me really did a much better job explaining than me I must say...
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
Okay, when I first played Minecraft my first thought was "okay this is a building game, AWESOME I wonder what I can build? Okay there are zombies and skeletons and these completely random green things that blow up... umm okay". I never stopped to think it was actually medival or whatever. Then I decide to go on forum post ideas about space and stuff and get waaay waaay flamed about "OMG IT IS FANTSEAAA WWAAAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??!?!". Its just completely rediculous. Minecraft is a building game where you pretty much just build and all of a sudden "OMG ITS FANTASY DUMBASS NOOB!". No, redstone should go to the stars and beyond. Fantasy doesnt mean that you should be trapped in the pre modern world, never to advance farther than a simple tower NO. There needs to be technology. It would make the game far more interesting, and the game already is already completely random so your point is invalid.
I totally agree. I play minecraft BECAUSE its a Crafting game, not another boring MMO RPG Fantasy Medieval time game which has been done to death. Times are changing, crafting games are a big topic and usually people are looking for crafting games because of its build ability, not because its another World Of Warcraft.
I totally agree. I play minecraft BECAUSE its a Crafting game, not another boring MMO RPG Fantasy Medieval time game which has been done to death. Times are changing, crafting games are a big topic and usually people are looking for crafting games because of its build ability, not because its another World Of Warcraft.
Its great that someone knows more about what Im talking about than even myself. You did a much better job explaining by the way, thank you.
Seriously, there needs to viewable crafting recipes in the game. Go support this idea. Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
But why do you need advanced things to be interested? That enchanted sword you just made? Just think of it as a "power sword" or something, and voila, sci-fi. Why can't we progress along a magic "tech-tree" instead of one emulating real life? And about your magic plasma gun, you're basically just using the Space X trope with magic instead of space. You can call it magic all you want, but it just doesn't feel magical.
We can have new things to build with without them being hypertech. I mean really, can you explain what getting insane amounts of technology would add to the building aspect of minecraft? We may be "stuck in the middle ages," but they didn't have in the middle ages, or magic at all for that matter.
And if you absolutely need to see a completely new planet every few seconds for a game to hold your interest, minecraft can't do that, go play spore or something.
The default character skin is a guy wearing a t-shirt and jeans.
Not medieval.
That said, I wouldn't be devastated if MineCraft doesn't venture too far from being "just" fantasy. I would, however, be disappointed if the fantasy goes too far down the road of cliches. I'm talking elves, and dwarves, and orc, and goblins...
I prefer MC's original approach to creatures. Sure, we started off with zombies and skeletons and giant spiders, but those were the early days! MC was just finding its feet. And besides, undead are fair-use in practically any setting.
And now, after being given such things as creepers (four-legged exploding maybe-plants!), ghasts (giant flying, crying heads with tentacles!), silverfish (swarms of stone-eating fish-bugs!), blazes (floating sticks of fire!), mooshrooms (cordyceps cows!), and endermen (lanky kleptomaniacs with ophthalmophobia!)... After all that, we get dragons.
But I guess dragons are popular, so they can be excused.
Umm... I went off on a tangent. I ask forgiveness.
Okay, when I first played Minecraft my first thought was "okay this is a building game, AWESOME I wonder what I can build? Okay there are zombies and skeletons and these completely random green things that blow up... umm okay". I never stopped to think it was actually medival or whatever. Then I decide to go on forum post ideas about space and stuff and get waaay waaay flamed about "OMG IT IS FANTSEAAA WWAAAT IS WRONG WITH YOU??!?!". Its just completely rediculous. Minecraft is a building game where you pretty much just build and all of a sudden "OMG ITS FANTASY DUMBASS NOOB!". No, redstone should go to the stars and beyond. Fantasy doesnt mean that you should be trapped in the pre modern world, never to advance farther than a simple tower NO. There needs to be technology. It would make the game far more interesting, and the game already is completely random so your point is invalid.
EDIT: The person above me really did a much better job explaining than me I must say...
.ok,some people think it is a fantasy and some people want an increase to minecraft technology.personally,i think the mechanics in minecraft is completly balanced the way it is.sure,notch could add advanced technology to the game,but too much tech and it will ruin the game.
"It doesn't fit the setting" is a perfectly valid argument. Just because you don't agree with it that doesn't mean that it isn't correct.
Whether you like it or not Minecraft does have a very strong fantasy setting, and just throwing it out the window because you want space and plasma rifles isn't valid. Nor is the argument that "if Minecraft doesn't do it, than someone else will and Minecraft will die!" I welcome the idea of new crafting games like minecraft, to add variety to the genre. If there was a sci-fi minecraft it would be suitable to have plasma rifles in it becuase it would fit the setting and i'm sure many people would go play it if it was any good. but there would still be a great many people playing minecraft.
I agree that a mixture of magic and technology is an intriguing idea but for minecraft, it just doesn't work.
And if you absolutely want a plasma rifle in Minecraft, well that's what mods are for.
I agree that it is a bit annoying. Besides...let's face it...quite often, the most vocal part of the community has been dead wrong.
They said the game would never be on a console. --- Minecraft is announced for Xbox. People said "NO RPG" so much it used to be a sticky. --- Experience orbs and skill system. People said magic had no place time and again. --- Enchanting, potions, and other dimensions added.
Need I go on?
However, there is one thing about the "Doesn't fit with the setting" argument that is hard to ignore. The fact is that Notch has made it pretty clear that he favours a more fantasy-esque flavour to the game. When pistons were added to the game, they were changed from the mod's gleaming iron boxes to something looking straight out of "Gilligan's Island". It was even stated that the team, aside from making them look more fantasy like, had also considered giving them a different name that would be more fantasy appropriate (ultimately, this seems to have been scrapped in favour of a more recognizable term).
So, it would seem that Mojang itself doesn't favour modern elements in Minecraft. However, there is a big catch to this. It's going to blow a few people's minds. Minecraft is not Medieval either!
To see the evidence of this, just look at what's in the game. You've got TNT...which actually is more like dynamite, but I digress...and minecarts using coal-fed engines. Which means that the the setting for the game would be closer to the late 1800's to early 1900's. In other words, for those two things to exist in game, Minecraft could (historically) be set no earlier than 200 years ago.
Of course, it gets worse. This is without factoring in Redstone. One important thing to know about Redstone is that, while it works like a circuit, Notch has been adamant in stating that it is NOT electricity. That means it's more like magic...or "magi-tech". Now the setting becomes a bit more complicated. What you have, essentially, is the mystical non-existent era that classic Final Fantasy games took place in...say, from about FFIV to FFVI. Or you have steampunk. In both cases, while these settings seem low-tech on the surface, they still find room for things like Zeppelins, rayguns, and walking powered armour. Either way, this opens the doors to a lot of technology, since the only real rule is "Can you give it an awesome-looking makeover?" instead of whether or not it existed "back then". Why? Because "back then" isn't a real time period, it's purely an atheistic, mixed with a largely arbitrary estimation on how much invention would be done.
So where does that leave some of the ideas people bring up?
Guns:Gunpowder weapons were in use as early as ancient China (700 AD), and the term "firearm" was coined for gunpowder weapons during the Dark Ages. By the estimated era of Minecraft, such weapons would have been in wide use. Even accounting for fantasy standards, simple flintlock weapons could exist. Besides which, gunpowder is already in the game, and given Steve's seemingly limitless ingenuity, it's unlikely he'd miss the applications. This one just comes down to needing a balanced design. Space Travel:Jules Verne wrote "From the Earth to the Moon" in 1865, and it was a fairly realistic guess at how space travel could be achieved. However the concept would not really be addressed scientifically until 1903, by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. This falls within the estimated timeframe for Minecraft, but barely, and the first rocket to reach space would not come for another 41 years...manned flight would take another decade or so. Add in the fact that, in the fantasy setting of Minecraft, you have portals that are more reliable, faster, and arguably safer for essentially the same purpose, and while this one is plausible, it becomes unlikely. Asphalt:Believe it or not, this is the least modern idea so far. The word "asphalt" actually has its roots in ancient Greek, and was carried on through the Roman empire and into the modern day. That's just for the origins of the word in English. Asphalt itself is also mentioned in Sanskrit writings, and is probably almost as old as humanity. By the 1800's...which, again, is the earliest Minecraft could take place, asphalt was well established for use as a paving material. This one absolutely fits in Minecraft. Submarines & Diving Gear:Once again, turn to our friend Jules Vern, who wrote about submarines in "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" (1869) and a submarine that could also transform into a speedboat, automobile, or aircraft in "Master of the World" (1904). Mr. Verne was known for writing highly plausible science fiction (grant you, some of his visions of the future were so uncanny that he may have been or known a time-traveller). Vern wasn't the first to think of them, though. While never made (that we know) Leonardo DaVinci also produced detailed designs for a workable submarine and the diving equipment to go with it. While submarines were not widely used for war until World War I (1914–1918), the first submarine known for a certainty to work was made in 1620...and it may not have been the earliest. However, by the time required for the most advanced non-redstone technology currently in Minecraft, many more submarines had been created. As for diving equipment, in ancient times leather air bladders were sometimes employed by naval divers. Later, in 1715, Englishman John Lethbridge invented an early diving machine that was something of a cross between scuba gear and an crude sort of submersible. Diving technology continued to be refined through the following centuries, making both of these reasonable in Minecraft, possibly with the addition of a magical element such as a potion used for an air supply in scuba gear.
So...the bottom line? Technology: It's not as new as you think!
I agree that it is a bit annoying. Besides...let's face it...quite often, the most vocal part of the community has been dead wrong.
They said the game would never be on a console. --- Minecraft is announced for Xbox. People said "NO RPG" so much it used to be a sticky. --- Experience orbs and skill system. People said magic had no place time and again. --- Enchanting, potions, and other dimensions added.
Need I go on?
However, there is one thing about the "Doesn't fit with the setting" argument that is hard to ignore. The fact is that Notch has made it pretty clear that he favours a more fantasy-esque flavour to the game. When pistons were added to the game, they were changed from the mod's gleaming iron boxes to something looking straight out of "Gilligan's Island". It was even stated that the team, aside from making them look more fantasy like, had also considered giving them a different name that would be more fantasy appropriate (ultimately, this seems to have been scrapped in favour of a more recognizable term).
So, it would seem that Mojang itself doesn't favour modern elements in Minecraft. However, there is a big catch to this. It's going to blow a few people's minds. Minecraft is not Medieval either!
To see the evidence of this, just look at what's in the game. You've got TNT...which actually is more like dynamite, but I digress...and minecarts using coal-fed engines. Which means that the the setting for the game would be closer to the late 1800's to early 1900's. In other words, for those two things to exist in game, Minecraft could (historically) be set no earlier than 200 years ago.
Of course, it gets worse. This is without factoring in Redstone. One important thing to know about Redstone is that, while it works like a circuit, Notch has been adamant in stating that it is NOT electricity. That means it's more like magic...or "magi-tech". Now the setting becomes a bit more complicated. What you have, essentially, is the mystical non-existent era that classic Final Fantasy games took place in...say, from about FFIV to FFVI. Or you have steampunk. In both cases, while these settings seem low-tech on the surface, they still find room for things like Zeppelins, rayguns, and walking powered armour. Either way, this opens the doors to a lot of technology, since the only real rule is "Can you give it an awesome-looking makeover?" instead of whether or not it existed "back then". Why? Because "back then" isn't a real time period, it's purely an atheistic, mixed with a largely arbitrary estimation on how much invention would be done.
So where does that leave some of the ideas people bring up?
Guns:Gunpowder weapons were in use as early as ancient China (700 AD), and the term "firearm" was coined for gunpowder weapons during the Dark Ages. By the estimated era of Minecraft, such weapons would have been in wide use. Even accounting for fantasy standards, simple flintlock weapons could exist. Besides which, gunpowder is already in the game, and given Steve's seemingly limitless ingenuity, it's unlikely he'd miss the applications. This one just comes down to needing a balanced design. Space Travel:Jules Verne wrote "From the Earth to the Moon" in 1865, and it was a fairly realistic guess at how space travel could be achieved. However the concept would not really be addressed scientifically until 1903, by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. This falls within the estimated timeframe for Minecraft, but barely, and the first rocket to reach space would not come for another 41 years...manned flight would take another decade or so. Add in the fact that, in the fantasy setting of Minecraft, you have portals that are more reliable, faster, and arguably safer for essentially the same purpose, and while this one is plausible, it becomes unlikely. Asphalt:Believe it or not, this is the least modern idea so far. The word "asphalt" actually has its roots in ancient Greek, and was carried on through the Roman empire and into the modern day. That's just for the origins of the word in English. Asphalt itself is also mentioned in Sanskrit writings, and is probably almost as old as humanity. By the 1800's...which, again, is the earliest Minecraft could take place, asphalt was well established for use as a paving material. This one absolutely fits in Minecraft. Submarines & Diving Gear:Once again, turn to our friend Jules Vern, who wrote about submarines in "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" (1869) and a submarine that could also transform into a speedboat, automobile, or aircraft in "Master of the World" (1904). Mr. Verne was known for writing highly plausible science fiction (grant you, some of his visions of the future were so uncanny that he may have been or known a time-traveller). Vern wasn't the first to think of them, though. While never made (that we know) Leonardo DaVinci also produced detailed designs for a workable submarine and the diving equipment to go with it. While submarines were not widely used for war until World War I (1914–1918), the first submarine known for a certainty to work was made in 1620...and it may not have been the earliest. However, by the time required for the most advanced non-redstone technology currently in Minecraft, many more submarines had been created. As for diving equipment, in ancient times leather air bladders were sometimes employed by naval divers. Later, in 1715, Englishman John Lethbridge invented an early diving machine that was something of a cross between scuba gear and an crude sort of submersible. Diving technology continued to be refined through the following centuries, making both of these reasonable in Minecraft, possibly with the addition of a magical element such as a potion used for an air supply in scuba gear.
So...the bottom line? Technology: It's not as new as you think!
Overall, I agree with this statement.
I consider minecraft to be a steampunk-type game (Lots of mechanical things) with heavy fantasy elements.
Coal (steam) powered minecarts, pseudo-electricity, and mechanical pistons, yet we still use swords and bows, we travel to other dimensions, and we will (soon) be fighting dragons when choose to do so.
It's survival married to mysticism with a dash of quirkyness.
What I mean by quirkyness is TNT, cake, bed blowing up in nether, things like that.
It DOES have a theme, it's just a complex one..
Notch likes to think randomly and outside the box as much as he can,
hence why there is no demons, netherchickens, space shuttles and werewolves.
Its annoying when people agree with your thread, but dont take the time to hit the like button. People, please hit the like button if you agree with me. By hitting the like button, you are not necessarily agreeing with the title of the topic; that was more or less just a way to attract peoples attention, and seeing it now, I regret not being able to think of something else. Its not realistic to limit someones ability to speak out, even if it is stupid, because then it backfires eventually on the people that arent stupid. If anything, short and biased comments should recieve a warning, being judged by smart and impartial moderators and forum admins. This is further elaborated on page 3 of the comments by yoshi9048.
First of all, you need to realize that by not supporting threads that condone space travel/technology, you are SEVERELY limiting what the player can do. Sure, redstone has its uses, but what is actually acheivable with redstone is negligable. Yeah you can build a theoretical computer in minecraft with redstone, but look how much work it took you, and look at how little it actually achieved! Without technology, the player cant do anything with his resources: There can be no automated mineing equipment, no automated building equipment, what the player can do with what he builds is next to nothing, besides making it look pretty. If you visit the my space thread you will find a link to a much more intrigueing thread that details massive warships and huge SMP possibilities that are not achievable with the overly conservative views surrounding the minecraft forum. What about a fantasy equivalent of each scifi object mentioned? What about a magic airship that can travel through space? Its powered by redstone, and redstone is magic really.
Its a very biased and overused critique to other peoples threads. What makes this all more true is that I made a thread detailing how scifi and fantsy could get along, pleasing both parties. An reasonable compromise that was shot down. I do like scifi a bit more than fantasy, but fantasy hasnt thrown me. Why cant they get along in Minecraft; Like in Warhammer 40k, Star Ocean, or Final Fantasy? I want technology because it would multiply the amount of things the player could do. If you still want that peaceful simple village of non machinary, so be it. You still have that choice. Hey guys, dont get me wrong I love games that happen to be fantasy such as Elder Scrolls.
An even better example people would be much more familiar with would be Star Wars. Yes thats right. Not only because The Force is magic by definition, but also because you see alot of ancient traditions and primitive technologies alongside more modern traditions and advanced technology.
This mod is an example of what Minecraft could feature. Its a very prime example and is part 1 of 6 so look for more on youtube if you are interested (there is a nuclear reactor in 4 I think).
So JackTDawson pretty much summed up how I feel. Thank you Jack. Here is his post:
DARKMAGIC101 also does a fine job of explaining how we spacers/techies feel:
On a smaller note, the example video above is not implying that "exactly that" should be applied directly to vanilla. Im suggesting that most or all of it should be included in Minecraft, but not necessarily the same way. One such thing that would not be the same if it was included in minecraft would be the ease of making automated equiptment. Automated equiptment should be something of an investment the player should only be able to make way down the road in the game, so as to preserve the survival element in Minecraft more. This thread is not about including said elements into Minecraft; it is about whether or not technology at all as a whole should be included ever.
So Ive included another poll question which is slightly off topic. Should game difficulty increase as you progress beyond your original spawn point (meaning more monsters/different monsters/etc)? And if not, there needs to be an increasing difficulty as you progress through the game, so how else? Please elaborate.
So share your thoughts and lets argue about it until the end of time.
Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
LoL
In all seriousness, things like guns and space travle really doesn't fit in with minecraft,since minecraft was ment to be mid-evil.
If you want to get technical with redstone, you could say that its primative wiring, based on magnets. Since it can make compasses, and with the whole inversion of power thing.
If i dont get that i would just be bored :sad.gif:
As for the magic plasma gun? I think it's more power than the player is meant to have easy access to. If you look at the weapons and items you can get and carry with you in the game, I've noticed Notch keeps the player relatively weak. It's only through lots of work that you can get things like potions to even partially increase your power.
Invalid argument:
This is the suggestion section in which I have made a suggestion thread.
Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I never suggested something like that would be something the player "should have easy access to".
The player would have to work to earn it.
Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
There's nothing wrong with a futuristic mod. However, adding in futuristic elements would get out of control. The setting keeps a general order to the game. It doesn't fit with the setting to be exploring 15th century mine caverns with a pistol, or flying a plane while bone creatures shoot arrows at you. Redstone is a mineral that can carry electricity. That should be as far as technology goes.
But will it last ? Medieval times will only hold people for so long. The reason we like minecraft to begin with is the ability to craft and build our world. NOT a Role Playing Game. Now I'm not saying RPG and medieval should be removed. No not at all. I'm saying, the game should still have the ability to craft even advanced items for those of us who want it. If you take a look at all the mods / plugins for the bukkit server, it will be recognized that people WANT the ability to create cities and towns. And from the videos we have seen lately, like the , that's exactly what some have done.
Which brings us to another point, RPGs. Role Playing Games are a cool idea, but a lot of us feel it should not be the focus of the game. I'm on the fence about it because I'm using the "Wait and See" method to see which direction this is all going before saying "I love it" or "I hate it".
If one does a search for MMOs out there, FANTASY ( medieval themes ) have been done to DEATH in a ton of the games out there. So having a CRAFTING game stop at medieval technology, is just a shame and very disappointing. Again, I repeat, its a crafting game, its why we play it. There is already a ton of MMO RPG medieval type of games out there. Take WURM online for example, also started by Notch and has not gone any further then the medieval time period. And as much as its a cool game, its player base is small relative to Minecraft. So why the appeal to Minecraft ? Because your not forced to play this game in one specific way. I mean, whats the point of being creative when you run out of things to build because the game has a stopping point in the medieval times. People will get bored. I know I will.
Some will say "Well then you don't have to play it". Well if you think about it, the reason we are playing it is because of the freedom to BUILD WHATEVER we want. That is being taken away from us, and its a #1 reason others have been programming their own version of Minecraft. Its why we have so many different clones out there. Not to mention the plugins that give us the ability to make things like a computer inside of Minecraft. Which has NOTHING to do with Medieval times.
You see, keep in mind, other game companies are watching MoJang. They are watching the mistakes that are being made because they will scoop up on this whole crafting idea if Minecraft fails. And Its why I support this thread, I am using the "wait and see where this is going" method before making my final decision on weather or not this game is worth my time. And yes, other companies want to make a game that IS worth your time so you'll keep buying their games / updates / Expansions.
*snip*
EDIT: The person above me really did a much better job explaining than me I must say...
Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
I totally agree. I play minecraft BECAUSE its a Crafting game, not another boring MMO RPG Fantasy Medieval time game which has been done to death. Times are changing, crafting games are a big topic and usually people are looking for crafting games because of its build ability, not because its another World Of Warcraft.
Its great that someone knows more about what Im talking about than even myself. You did a much better job explaining by the way, thank you.
Also click on my profile to view my space thread under find content.
We can have new things to build with without them being hypertech. I mean really, can you explain what getting insane amounts of technology would add to the building aspect of minecraft? We may be "stuck in the middle ages," but they didn't have in the middle ages, or magic at all for that matter.
And if you absolutely need to see a completely new planet every few seconds for a game to hold your interest, minecraft can't do that, go play spore or something.
To read the haiku that you
Just finished reading
Not medieval.
That said, I wouldn't be devastated if MineCraft doesn't venture too far from being "just" fantasy. I would, however, be disappointed if the fantasy goes too far down the road of cliches. I'm talking elves, and dwarves, and orc, and goblins...
I prefer MC's original approach to creatures. Sure, we started off with zombies and skeletons and giant spiders, but those were the early days! MC was just finding its feet. And besides, undead are fair-use in practically any setting.
And now, after being given such things as creepers (four-legged exploding maybe-plants!), ghasts (giant flying, crying heads with tentacles!), silverfish (swarms of stone-eating fish-bugs!), blazes (floating sticks of fire!), mooshrooms (cordyceps cows!), and endermen (lanky kleptomaniacs with ophthalmophobia!)... After all that, we get dragons.
But I guess dragons are popular, so they can be excused.
Umm... I went off on a tangent. I ask forgiveness.
.ok,some people think it is a fantasy and some people want an increase to minecraft technology.personally,i think the mechanics in minecraft is completly balanced the way it is.sure,notch could add advanced technology to the game,but too much tech and it will ruin the game.
Whether you like it or not Minecraft does have a very strong fantasy setting, and just throwing it out the window because you want space and plasma rifles isn't valid. Nor is the argument that "if Minecraft doesn't do it, than someone else will and Minecraft will die!" I welcome the idea of new crafting games like minecraft, to add variety to the genre. If there was a sci-fi minecraft it would be suitable to have plasma rifles in it becuase it would fit the setting and i'm sure many people would go play it if it was any good. but there would still be a great many people playing minecraft.
I agree that a mixture of magic and technology is an intriguing idea but for minecraft, it just doesn't work.
And if you absolutely want a plasma rifle in Minecraft, well that's what mods are for.
They said the game would never be on a console. --- Minecraft is announced for Xbox.
People said "NO RPG" so much it used to be a sticky. --- Experience orbs and skill system.
People said magic had no place time and again. --- Enchanting, potions, and other dimensions added.
Need I go on?
However, there is one thing about the "Doesn't fit with the setting" argument that is hard to ignore. The fact is that Notch has made it pretty clear that he favours a more fantasy-esque flavour to the game. When pistons were added to the game, they were changed from the mod's gleaming iron boxes to something looking straight out of "Gilligan's Island". It was even stated that the team, aside from making them look more fantasy like, had also considered giving them a different name that would be more fantasy appropriate (ultimately, this seems to have been scrapped in favour of a more recognizable term).
So, it would seem that Mojang itself doesn't favour modern elements in Minecraft. However, there is a big catch to this. It's going to blow a few people's minds.
Minecraft is not Medieval either!
To see the evidence of this, just look at what's in the game. You've got TNT...which actually is more like dynamite, but I digress...and minecarts using coal-fed engines. Which means that the the setting for the game would be closer to the late 1800's to early 1900's. In other words, for those two things to exist in game, Minecraft could (historically) be set no earlier than 200 years ago.
Of course, it gets worse. This is without factoring in Redstone. One important thing to know about Redstone is that, while it works like a circuit, Notch has been adamant in stating that it is NOT electricity. That means it's more like magic...or "magi-tech". Now the setting becomes a bit more complicated. What you have, essentially, is the mystical non-existent era that classic Final Fantasy games took place in...say, from about FFIV to FFVI. Or you have steampunk. In both cases, while these settings seem low-tech on the surface, they still find room for things like Zeppelins, rayguns, and walking powered armour. Either way, this opens the doors to a lot of technology, since the only real rule is "Can you give it an awesome-looking makeover?" instead of whether or not it existed "back then". Why? Because "back then" isn't a real time period, it's purely an atheistic, mixed with a largely arbitrary estimation on how much invention would be done.
So where does that leave some of the ideas people bring up?
Guns: Gunpowder weapons were in use as early as ancient China (700 AD), and the term "firearm" was coined for gunpowder weapons during the Dark Ages. By the estimated era of Minecraft, such weapons would have been in wide use. Even accounting for fantasy standards, simple flintlock weapons could exist. Besides which, gunpowder is already in the game, and given Steve's seemingly limitless ingenuity, it's unlikely he'd miss the applications. This one just comes down to needing a balanced design.
Space Travel: Jules Verne wrote "From the Earth to the Moon" in 1865, and it was a fairly realistic guess at how space travel could be achieved. However the concept would not really be addressed scientifically until 1903, by Konstantin Tsiolkovsky. This falls within the estimated timeframe for Minecraft, but barely, and the first rocket to reach space would not come for another 41 years...manned flight would take another decade or so. Add in the fact that, in the fantasy setting of Minecraft, you have portals that are more reliable, faster, and arguably safer for essentially the same purpose, and while this one is plausible, it becomes unlikely.
Asphalt: Believe it or not, this is the least modern idea so far. The word "asphalt" actually has its roots in ancient Greek, and was carried on through the Roman empire and into the modern day. That's just for the origins of the word in English. Asphalt itself is also mentioned in Sanskrit writings, and is probably almost as old as humanity. By the 1800's...which, again, is the earliest Minecraft could take place, asphalt was well established for use as a paving material. This one absolutely fits in Minecraft.
Submarines & Diving Gear: Once again, turn to our friend Jules Vern, who wrote about submarines in "20,000 Leagues Under the Sea" (1869) and a submarine that could also transform into a speedboat, automobile, or aircraft in "Master of the World" (1904). Mr. Verne was known for writing highly plausible science fiction (grant you, some of his visions of the future were so uncanny that he may have been or known a time-traveller). Vern wasn't the first to think of them, though. While never made (that we know) Leonardo DaVinci also produced detailed designs for a workable submarine and the diving equipment to go with it. While submarines were not widely used for war until World War I (1914–1918), the first submarine known for a certainty to work was made in 1620...and it may not have been the earliest. However, by the time required for the most advanced non-redstone technology currently in Minecraft, many more submarines had been created. As for diving equipment, in ancient times leather air bladders were sometimes employed by naval divers. Later, in 1715, Englishman John Lethbridge invented an early diving machine that was something of a cross between scuba gear and an crude sort of submersible. Diving technology continued to be refined through the following centuries, making both of these reasonable in Minecraft, possibly with the addition of a magical element such as a potion used for an air supply in scuba gear.
So...the bottom line? Technology: It's not as new as you think!
Overall, I agree with this statement.
I consider minecraft to be a steampunk-type game (Lots of mechanical things) with heavy fantasy elements.
Coal (steam) powered minecarts, pseudo-electricity, and mechanical pistons, yet we still use swords and bows, we travel to other dimensions, and we will (soon) be fighting dragons when choose to do so.
What I mean by quirkyness is TNT, cake, bed blowing up in nether, things like that.
It DOES have a theme, it's just a complex one..
Notch likes to think randomly and outside the box as much as he can,
hence why there is no demons, netherchickens, space shuttles and werewolves.
http://getsatisfaction.com/mojang/topics/making_minecraft_like_spore
This is why.
(The guy decided to put his extended description in a comment rather than put it in the OP. So just look for his first comment.)