That used to be a pretty fun forum to go to, now it's a disgusting hot mess. Back in the day it almost always had a good share of ideas (though there were always stupid ones here and there) and a mass amount of smart critics. Now it's home to one-liner/joke threaders.
For reasons unknown, I see mods defend the people who make the stupid troll threads more than the people who call them out, giving these troll users even more reason to post garbage there. That's the equivalent to giving bank robbers an ice cream cone and "just a warning". Then I hear about one of the stupidest moves anyone could make on a forum: they remove the vague threads rule.
Good god, what thought process do you need to have to make a decision like that? Smart thinking, now that kid that posts one sentence about "lol ender sheep" gets away with it. In fact, half of the threads in that forum now are just people who spew something vague out and then never come back to the their own threads. Oh, let's not mention the plethora of joke accounts that spawned because people knew what they'd get away with.
Sometimes I wish this was the Facepunch forums, after maybe 2 stupid threads, you're done for. You aren't coming back to make that 8th joke thread that mods do nothing about. Every single time I go back to that forum, the first thread I see is dumber than the last.
You forgot about normal users (though some of these are sockpuppet accounts) who support the troll threads because they can't properly read between the lines and see what's going on. They're too puppy-eyed over the fact that "wolves lifting creepers sounds sooooo cooool!" and they can't see past that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
It's not pretty, that's for sure. Unfortunately, the mods can't do much about vague threads anymore, as it's no longer against the rules to make them.
So, roll with the punches I guess? A change isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
If changes we've made are compromising a section we're definitely willing to make further changes to right that wrong. If people can share more thoughts on what they think would improve the section that would be a great help
It's not pretty, that's for sure. Unfortunately, the mods can't do much about vague threads anymore, as it's no longer against the rules to make them.
So, roll with the punches I guess? A change isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
Nothing personal, but I don't see any reason to make a post where it's pretty much "yeah it's tough, but that's how it is! sux d00d! better just mentally accept it". It adds nothing to the thread, and this isn't a problem that has no solutions. Also saying "changes aren't gonna happen anytime soon" is pointless, because how would you know? That's the point of the thread, to spark the changes.
If you believe a post is against the rules, or spam, use the report button at the bottom of the post, and a moderator will review it.
This is one of the biggest problems. People will throw out joke threads en masse, but write them in a way where they technically can't get banned for it. Which I understand, because what if some poor guy just makes an honest bad thread and then gets banned for it? It's not fair to that guy, but there are telltale signs that a lot of users give. I'll admit, some jokers write suggestions so well we end up supporting it even though we weren't supposed to.
If changes we've made are compromising a section we're definitely willing to make further changes to right that wrong. If people can share more thoughts on what they think would improve the section that would be a great help
I still can't fathom why the vague threads rule was removed. The second that happened, people started making new accounts just for that and spammed that forum like never before, because they knew they could get away with it. If someone posts "I want some m0re cats, let's add them!!", then guess what? You got a thread where the OP thinks he's making a point while you got 9 repliers begging for details that almost never come. That's just a waste. And it happens so many times in a row. It's old, and it pushes the better threads off the front pages.
The more detailed joke threads are harder to pin down, but it's the same story... If they know they can get away with it and that people will always angrily reply to them, then the jokers will just keep doing it and never stop. Sure, ignoring the joke threader would help, but how will you convince an entire forum to see the light and follow that advice. Sadly we don't live in an ideal world.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
It's a dumb, endless cycle. Vague thread gets posted, people ask for detail, repeat, repeat, repeat. This is the crap that happens when you remove rules. People will just come in here, make the same mistakes and never learn. Not to mention removing rules only spawn plethoras of joke threads. gg.
It's a dumb, endless cycle. Vague thread gets posted, people ask for detail, repeat, repeat, repeat. This is the crap that happens when you remove rules. People will just come in here, make the same mistakes and never learn. Not to mention removing rules only spawn plethoras of joke threads. gg.
In instances such as this, the thread can be dealt with. If it's a whole new suggestion, it's harder to deal with. But not every idea is a duplicate.
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about... Did you post this in the wrong thread?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about... Did you post this in the wrong thread?
Nope. McRiveter posted a link above my last post, an example thread of what he sees as "vague suggestions". It was about adding a baby dragon to the game. I merely provided an example of what can be done with vague ideas under a certain circumstance. In this case, the thread was not removed for being vague, but locked and linked to the existing thread, which had more elaboration on the idea.
Even though it looks off topic, it wasn't. Just a suggestion - not vague - about how to handle that example.
Sorry for the confusion, I was replying to this post:
It's a dumb, endless cycle. Vague thread gets posted, people ask for detail, repeat, repeat, repeat. This is the crap that happens when you remove rules. People will just come in here, make the same mistakes and never learn. Not to mention removing rules only spawn plethoras of joke threads. gg.
First off, I think you are glorifying what happened in the past. I think the ratio for good and bad suggestion are roughly the same from back then to now. Positivity bias is the source of this.
Second off, there were more people on it back then. It was faster paced, so bad suggestions would sink faster compared to good ones, making it seem like there was less bad suggestions.
Finally, if you want to make it seem like there is some improvement, maybe you could suggest some sort of way to incentivize good suggestion making.
First off, I think you are glorifying what happened in the past. I think the ratio for good and bad suggestion are roughly the same from back then to now. Positivity bias is the source of this.
I don't mean to speak for the OP, but I think he was talking about how some stupid threads were handled back then.
Finally, if you want to make it seem like there is some improvement, maybe you could suggest some sort of way to incentivize good suggestion making.
Heck, maybe even a suggestion competition.
What's the point of any of that? There's already a massive suggestion guide mindless new users just skip reading because they think they're doing everything right, then blame the rest of the forum when they post something dumb. A "suggestion competition"? I honestly don't see what that would provide..?
I read that the reason for removing the vague threads rule was because "it was difficult to determine what's vague and what isn't". So basically, if a rule has grey area, just remove it altogether? Jesus, was that even thought out at all? It's not hard to know what's vague and what ain't.
If someone posts "deserts neeeeed snakes and birds, you agree right?" then how is that not vague? It's hard to support something where we don't even get enough info to know if the idea is balanced or fitting. It's just "snakes and birds herpty herp".
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
This is someone who made constantly made stupid threads and almost all of them got locked. Was it not clear enough this guy is just another joke spammer? I think some mods here need to go through a boot camp to teach them how to spot joke threaders.
This is someone who made constantly made stupid threads and almost all of them got locked. Was it not clear enough this guy is just another joke spammer? I think some mods here need to go through a boot camp to teach them how to spot joke threaders.
Actually, if you look at this poster's profile only a few have been locked. Reasons being stated in each thread due to wishlists. Wishlists are comprised of two or more suggestions that are not closely related. In the particular thread you've linked, the suggestions all follow a theme closely. And even though to you or someone else, it may seem absurd, it's not breaking any rules. As a moderator posted "People have a right to post their opinions about this suggestion. Please refrain from telling people to stop." This includes telling the any user including the OP to stop.
Simply put; if it doesn't break the rules, there isn't much to be done. Any registered user on this forum may post a suggestion, regardless of how logical or absurd it may or may not be to others, so long as it does not violate forum rules. We aren't here to censor user's content based on whether or not it looks like a joke.
I do not moderate any of the PC sections including the one you are having issues with. I only moderate console sections. However whether or not a report is filed, moderators use their best judgement to determine if a post violates the rules, and will be taken care of as deemed fit. In this case it has been reviewed, and left open to discussion. If you don't like a suggestion, you don't have to support it. Just ignore it, and move on.
Threads you percieve as "obvious jokes" are just as likely to be made by a naïve, young user who just doesn't know any better. Trolling is a very risky thing to accuse a member for without solid evidence to do so. You wouldn't like it if one of your posts/threads, which you thought was legitimate, was deleted and you found a warning for trolling in your inbox, would you?
If you want my honest answer. I think I'd put the fault on myself and not the forum if my thread was really stupid. But I don't want to speak for everyone there.
What about vague threads? And the people that keep spamming them?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Threads you percieve as "obvious jokes" are just as likely to be made by a naïve, young user who just doesn't know any better. Trolling is a very risky thing to accuse a member for without solid evidence to do so. You wouldn't like it if one of your posts/threads, which you thought was legitimate, was deleted and you found a warning for trolling in your inbox, would you?
If members keep replying to it, that means there is interest in the thread. Whether the posts are positive or negative, attention is still attention. Stop replying to the thread completely, and that includes sarcastic, outraged, "stop replying!" or otherwise dismissive remarks and unconstructive posts, and the thread will die.
If I make a thread so stupid that it gets deleted, then the fault is probably on me. If anything, I'd feel better more than discouraged because me farting out a thread about "Ender Herobrine Creepers" will only bring negative attention to myself. Just because people reply to a thread doesn't always mean it "has interest", but it's just a bunch of people saying how stupid it is.
Threads you percieve as "obvious jokes" are just as likely to be made by a naïve, young user who just doesn't know any better. Trolling is a very risky thing to accuse a member for without solid evidence to do so. You wouldn't like it if one of your posts/threads, which you thought was legitimate, was deleted and you found a warning for trolling in your inbox, would you?
It wouldn't be right for a mod to do, but if I make a thread so dumb that it's assumed to be a joke thread, I think a bit of that falls on me. That doesn't explain people pooping out 1-lined suggestions that get away with it because the vague threads rule was removed. And that some of those people who found out about said rule-removal made new accounts just to abuse that (which people are still doing).
It wouldn't be right for a mod to do, but if I make a thread so dumb that it's assumed to be a joke thread, I think a bit of that falls on me. That doesn't explain people pooping out 1-lined suggestions that get away with it because the vague threads rule was removed. And that some of those people who found out about said rule-removal made new accounts just to abuse that (which people are still doing).
Maybe this is the BEST example of vague, one-liner, joke thread.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a programmer. I use C/C++, BASIC, Assembly, and Python. If i sound too technicial, that's because it's the way i think.
If you believe there's a rule that Suggestions is lacking to prevent or reduce these kinds of threads in a fair way, something based as little as possible on a person's opinion, by all means, suggest away.
This isn't really a rule, but perhaps a minimum character count in the original post?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Github ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้дด็็็็็้้้้้็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้
That used to be a pretty fun forum to go to, now it's a disgusting hot mess. Back in the day it almost always had a good share of ideas (though there were always stupid ones here and there) and a mass amount of smart critics. Now it's home to one-liner/joke threaders.
For reasons unknown, I see mods defend the people who make the stupid troll threads more than the people who call them out, giving these troll users even more reason to post garbage there. That's the equivalent to giving bank robbers an ice cream cone and "just a warning". Then I hear about one of the stupidest moves anyone could make on a forum: they remove the vague threads rule.
Good god, what thought process do you need to have to make a decision like that? Smart thinking, now that kid that posts one sentence about "lol ender sheep" gets away with it. In fact, half of the threads in that forum now are just people who spew something vague out and then never come back to the their own threads. Oh, let's not mention the plethora of joke accounts that spawned because people knew what they'd get away with.
Sometimes I wish this was the Facepunch forums, after maybe 2 stupid threads, you're done for. You aren't coming back to make that 8th joke thread that mods do nothing about. Every single time I go back to that forum, the first thread I see is dumber than the last.
You forgot about normal users (though some of these are sockpuppet accounts) who support the troll threads because they can't properly read between the lines and see what's going on. They're too puppy-eyed over the fact that "wolves lifting creepers sounds sooooo cooool!" and they can't see past that.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
It's not pretty, that's for sure. Unfortunately, the mods can't do much about vague threads anymore, as it's no longer against the rules to make them.
So, roll with the punches I guess? A change isn't likely to happen anytime soon.
If you believe a post is against the rules, or spam, use the report button at the bottom of the post, and a moderator will review it.
If changes we've made are compromising a section we're definitely willing to make further changes to right that wrong. If people can share more thoughts on what they think would improve the section that would be a great help
Nothing personal, but I don't see any reason to make a post where it's pretty much "yeah it's tough, but that's how it is! sux d00d! better just mentally accept it". It adds nothing to the thread, and this isn't a problem that has no solutions. Also saying "changes aren't gonna happen anytime soon" is pointless, because how would you know? That's the point of the thread, to spark the changes.
This is one of the biggest problems. People will throw out joke threads en masse, but write them in a way where they technically can't get banned for it. Which I understand, because what if some poor guy just makes an honest bad thread and then gets banned for it? It's not fair to that guy, but there are telltale signs that a lot of users give. I'll admit, some jokers write suggestions so well we end up supporting it even though we weren't supposed to.
I still can't fathom why the vague threads rule was removed. The second that happened, people started making new accounts just for that and spammed that forum like never before, because they knew they could get away with it. If someone posts "I want some m0re cats, let's add them!!", then guess what? You got a thread where the OP thinks he's making a point while you got 9 repliers begging for details that almost never come. That's just a waste. And it happens so many times in a row. It's old, and it pushes the better threads off the front pages.
The more detailed joke threads are harder to pin down, but it's the same story... If they know they can get away with it and that people will always angrily reply to them, then the jokers will just keep doing it and never stop. Sure, ignoring the joke threader would help, but how will you convince an entire forum to see the light and follow that advice. Sadly we don't live in an ideal world.
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
It's stuff like this that just keeps happening.
It's a dumb, endless cycle. Vague thread gets posted, people ask for detail, repeat, repeat, repeat. This is the crap that happens when you remove rules. People will just come in here, make the same mistakes and never learn. Not to mention removing rules only spawn plethoras of joke threads. gg.
Well, search "dragon" in the search bar. Now make it an advanced search, and search only the suggestions section. See this thread: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-discussion/suggestions/2590561-hatching-the-dragon-egg ? Now go back to the thread you posted. Report it as a duplicate thread, since the idea has already been posted, and elaborated on. A moderator can take care of it.
In instances such as this, the thread can be dealt with. If it's a whole new suggestion, it's harder to deal with. But not every idea is a duplicate.
This has nothing to do with what we're talking about... Did you post this in the wrong thread?
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
Nope. McRiveter posted a link above my last post, an example thread of what he sees as "vague suggestions". It was about adding a baby dragon to the game. I merely provided an example of what can be done with vague ideas under a certain circumstance. In this case, the thread was not removed for being vague, but locked and linked to the existing thread, which had more elaboration on the idea.
Even though it looks off topic, it wasn't. Just a suggestion - not vague - about how to handle that example.
Sorry for the confusion, I was replying to this post:
First off, I think you are glorifying what happened in the past. I think the ratio for good and bad suggestion are roughly the same from back then to now. Positivity bias is the source of this.
Second off, there were more people on it back then. It was faster paced, so bad suggestions would sink faster compared to good ones, making it seem like there was less bad suggestions.
Finally, if you want to make it seem like there is some improvement, maybe you could suggest some sort of way to incentivize good suggestion making.
Heck, maybe even a suggestion competition.
I don't mean to speak for the OP, but I think he was talking about how some stupid threads were handled back then.
What's the point of any of that? There's already a massive suggestion guide mindless new users just skip reading because they think they're doing everything right, then blame the rest of the forum when they post something dumb. A "suggestion competition"? I honestly don't see what that would provide..?
I read that the reason for removing the vague threads rule was because "it was difficult to determine what's vague and what isn't". So basically, if a rule has grey area, just remove it altogether? Jesus, was that even thought out at all? It's not hard to know what's vague and what ain't.
If someone posts "deserts neeeeed snakes and birds, you agree right?" then how is that not vague? It's hard to support something where we don't even get enough info to know if the idea is balanced or fitting. It's just "snakes and birds herpty herp".
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
Well...yeah. That doesn't fix the whole bad suggestion thing. But it might make people more likely to make good suggestions? ....
...
You know what, I'll just shut up.
Oh hey check this out.
This is someone who made constantly made stupid threads and almost all of them got locked. Was it not clear enough this guy is just another joke spammer? I think some mods here need to go through a boot camp to teach them how to spot joke threaders.
Actually, if you look at this poster's profile only a few have been locked. Reasons being stated in each thread due to wishlists. Wishlists are comprised of two or more suggestions that are not closely related. In the particular thread you've linked, the suggestions all follow a theme closely. And even though to you or someone else, it may seem absurd, it's not breaking any rules. As a moderator posted "People have a right to post their opinions about this suggestion. Please refrain from telling people to stop." This includes telling the any user including the OP to stop.
Simply put; if it doesn't break the rules, there isn't much to be done. Any registered user on this forum may post a suggestion, regardless of how logical or absurd it may or may not be to others, so long as it does not violate forum rules. We aren't here to censor user's content based on whether or not it looks like a joke.
I do not moderate any of the PC sections including the one you are having issues with. I only moderate console sections. However whether or not a report is filed, moderators use their best judgement to determine if a post violates the rules, and will be taken care of as deemed fit. In this case it has been reviewed, and left open to discussion. If you don't like a suggestion, you don't have to support it. Just ignore it, and move on.
If you want my honest answer. I think I'd put the fault on myself and not the forum if my thread was really stupid. But I don't want to speak for everyone there.
What about vague threads? And the people that keep spamming them?
Yeah, that guy in the avatar is me. I'm *that* strange. It happens. Sometimes people act like that. Just go with it. I can offer help with suggestions even before you post them - NOT make your suggestions - but help you with them.
Unofficial Suggestions Guide (2.0) - by Theriasis
Unofficial Critics Guide - by yoshi9048
If I make a thread so stupid that it gets deleted, then the fault is probably on me. If anything, I'd feel better more than discouraged because me farting out a thread about "Ender Herobrine Creepers" will only bring negative attention to myself. Just because people reply to a thread doesn't always mean it "has interest", but it's just a bunch of people saying how stupid it is.
Glad to see this thread didn't really go anywhere.
It wouldn't be right for a mod to do, but if I make a thread so dumb that it's assumed to be a joke thread, I think a bit of that falls on me. That doesn't explain people pooping out 1-lined suggestions that get away with it because the vague threads rule was removed. And that some of those people who found out about said rule-removal made new accounts just to abuse that (which people are still doing).
Maybe this is the BEST example of vague, one-liner, joke thread.
I'm a programmer. I use C/C++, BASIC, Assembly, and Python. If i sound too technicial, that's because it's the way i think.
My Suggestions
This isn't really a rule, but perhaps a minimum character count in the original post?
My Github ด้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้дด็็็็็้้้้้็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้็็็็็้้้้้