You still haven't proven how discussions on politics or philosophy aren't family friendly. Sure, they can get somewhat heated at times, but that doesn't make them not "family-friendly".
I sometimes drop by that forum sometimes myself. There are often interesting discussions there.
It seems selective to allow any off-topic forum to exist given the reasoning for removing PPNS.That said I can see why it was removed. There are lots of other forums that can provide a venue for those sorts of discussions. As an example, take another forum which I have been a member of since Late 2007. It's focus is on providing help with computer issues and problems (Malware, configuration, what have you) there are a few general discussion forums but Politics, philosophy, etc style topics are outright banned. Threads will be locked or posts edited/deleted if they start to get too political, religious/anti-religious, etc. Is this censorship? Well, yes, in a technical sense. But it also makes perfect sense from the perspective of the administrator. The forum is, after all, first and foremost, for helping users.
That is also why there was a crackdown on the rampant off-topic conversations that were going on in help threads. A person asking for help with their Windows System not booting could derail into a discussion about the best kind of wine to pair with provolone cheese.
In the case of the forum in question (Computerhope), the idea is to build a community, but that community is being built for specific purpose. It is sort of the same as here, in that the purpose is to build a community (rather, it built such a community) specifically for Minecraft discussion topics. As a courtesy and perhaps because such discussions were occurring elsewhere (or, more likely, to try to spurr discussion when the forum was small and fledgling) there were many other forums introduced - The various Off-topic forums. However there is no arguing, I think, that they do go against the main goal of the forum, and while it would have made more sense to remove them far earlier such that the issue is not made out to be some huge conspiracy of censorship, I can see why it was done that way.
This does raise the question, however, as to how long it will take before various other subforums come under the same scrutiny- In particular the Computers & Technology forum, which is only tangentially related to Minecraft in that computers can run it. And the General Gaming subforum, which is explicitly about Not Minecraft. They aren't falling under scrutiny now, but neither was PPNS, so it is likely just a matter of time before they might be eliminated also. I could understand that as well, but it seems- unfair to allow a community to build up within a subforum- many members only hang out in certain subforums, many don't even discuss minecraft at all- and then to come through and basically hang up an eviction notice. An ideal would have been at least a grace period or warning- though arguably that would just end up wit hteh same backlash, over time, and by the time it was actually shut down the people who would have been most effective could have found elsewhere to discuss the topics that interest them.
Sadly, conversation in the PPNS continued to be hostile despite all moderation attempts. There were always certain users who, despite multiple warnings and bans, continued to break the rules time and time again. Worse, rather than simply cease hostilities, the forum became saturated with thinly veiled insults in place of quality debate. As the forums became more geared towards family friendliness, the PPNS refused to improve.
The decision about whether or not to close the PPNS has come up several times now, and each time, I've defended its existence based on the idea that the discussion of important topics is something that should be a part of any community. Unfortunately, with each repeated return to this question, I began to doubt the maturity of the PPNS community and its ability to be the forum that it needed to be in order to find a place to belong on the Minecraft Forums. I do not want this forum to be closed, but I have been pushed into a corner where I can no longer defend it. After considering the current toxicity and its refusal to improve, I've been forced to agree with its closure. I have not been forced by citricsquid, Curse, or any of other staff to arrive where I am today. I know it's hard to accept, but it was the PPNS regulars who forced me into this position.
I'm truly sorry that it came to this. I hope you find another community that is more properly equipped to handle the kinds of topics that the PPNS was created to give voice to.
Sadly, conversation in the PPNS continued to be hostile despite all moderation attempts. There were always certain users who, despite multiple warnings and bans, continued to break the rules time and time again.
Isn't that what a permaban is for?
I do not want this forum to be closed, but I have been pushed into a corner where I can no longer defend it. After considering the current toxicity and its refusal to improve, I've been forced to agree with its closure. I have not been forced by citricsquid, Curse, or any of other staff to arrive where I am today. I know it's hard to accept, but it was the PPNS regulars who forced me into this position.
If you're not forced to do something then why are you saying that you were forced?
As the Global Moderator of Planet Random (my pen-pal from the East Coast is the Administrator), I suggest that PPNS regulars join Planet Random. It was at one point a vibrant community but activity has died down a little bit recently. We even have a section devoted to Philosophy and Current Events! Here: http://planetrandom.freeforums.org/philosophy-and-current-events-f21.html
Our main focus was on video games and we still maintain a section for video games as well as technology, TV shows, and movies as well as an off-topic section. We have more lax rules than here since most users (including all the staff) are adults now but we still do not allow links to bad things. Our rules are similar to Mod The Sims. Still there have been a couple of trollers and spammers so I had to deal with them.
I hope that we can all cooperate together and make both Minecraft Forum and Planet Random better communities.
You still haven't proven how discussions on politics or philosophy aren't family friendly. Sure, they can get somewhat heated at times, but that doesn't make them not "family-friendly".
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Curse PremiumI sometimes drop by that forum sometimes myself. There are often interesting discussions there.
It seems selective to allow any off-topic forum to exist given the reasoning for removing PPNS.That said I can see why it was removed. There are lots of other forums that can provide a venue for those sorts of discussions. As an example, take another forum which I have been a member of since Late 2007. It's focus is on providing help with computer issues and problems (Malware, configuration, what have you) there are a few general discussion forums but Politics, philosophy, etc style topics are outright banned. Threads will be locked or posts edited/deleted if they start to get too political, religious/anti-religious, etc. Is this censorship? Well, yes, in a technical sense. But it also makes perfect sense from the perspective of the administrator. The forum is, after all, first and foremost, for helping users.
That is also why there was a crackdown on the rampant off-topic conversations that were going on in help threads. A person asking for help with their Windows System not booting could derail into a discussion about the best kind of wine to pair with provolone cheese.
In the case of the forum in question (Computerhope), the idea is to build a community, but that community is being built for specific purpose. It is sort of the same as here, in that the purpose is to build a community (rather, it built such a community) specifically for Minecraft discussion topics. As a courtesy and perhaps because such discussions were occurring elsewhere (or, more likely, to try to spurr discussion when the forum was small and fledgling) there were many other forums introduced - The various Off-topic forums. However there is no arguing, I think, that they do go against the main goal of the forum, and while it would have made more sense to remove them far earlier such that the issue is not made out to be some huge conspiracy of censorship, I can see why it was done that way.
This does raise the question, however, as to how long it will take before various other subforums come under the same scrutiny- In particular the Computers & Technology forum, which is only tangentially related to Minecraft in that computers can run it. And the General Gaming subforum, which is explicitly about Not Minecraft. They aren't falling under scrutiny now, but neither was PPNS, so it is likely just a matter of time before they might be eliminated also. I could understand that as well, but it seems- unfair to allow a community to build up within a subforum- many members only hang out in certain subforums, many don't even discuss minecraft at all- and then to come through and basically hang up an eviction notice. An ideal would have been at least a grace period or warning- though arguably that would just end up wit hteh same backlash, over time, and by the time it was actually shut down the people who would have been most effective could have found elsewhere to discuss the topics that interest them.
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Retired StaffThe decision about whether or not to close the PPNS has come up several times now, and each time, I've defended its existence based on the idea that the discussion of important topics is something that should be a part of any community. Unfortunately, with each repeated return to this question, I began to doubt the maturity of the PPNS community and its ability to be the forum that it needed to be in order to find a place to belong on the Minecraft Forums. I do not want this forum to be closed, but I have been pushed into a corner where I can no longer defend it. After considering the current toxicity and its refusal to improve, I've been forced to agree with its closure. I have not been forced by citricsquid, Curse, or any of other staff to arrive where I am today. I know it's hard to accept, but it was the PPNS regulars who forced me into this position.
I'm truly sorry that it came to this. I hope you find another community that is more properly equipped to handle the kinds of topics that the PPNS was created to give voice to.
Isn't that what a permaban is for?
If you're not forced to do something then why are you saying that you were forced?
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Retired StaffIs that what you'd prefer I do?
If somebody is consistently breaking the rules and has been banned and warned multiple times? I'd certainly consider it.
Our main focus was on video games and we still maintain a section for video games as well as technology, TV shows, and movies as well as an off-topic section. We have more lax rules than here since most users (including all the staff) are adults now but we still do not allow links to bad things. Our rules are similar to Mod The Sims. Still there have been a couple of trollers and spammers so I had to deal with them.
I hope that we can all cooperate together and make both Minecraft Forum and Planet Random better communities.
--Ocram
Because making excuses is easier than making a good forum.