Try not start blaming Bethesda and telling Notch to kick their but without knowing exactly what you are saying, because i just read a handful of arrogant... speeches(sorry, no offence...)without actual reasonable argument further explaining why Bethesda is wrong. That doesn't work in the real world; you have to have facts, and tell the people where you got it, to back up your argument.("citing" is indicating where you got your facts. You're introduced to doing that in highschool, but when you start citing, you feel powerful :smile.gif:
-It seems Bethesda doesn't have legal ground, but they can certainly, possibly win a lawsuit against MojangAB. That's why it is a risky decision to "fight" back (unless its Ghandi-style in this case). As far as I know, Notch is being smart and safe by peacefully trying to communicate back(yep, Ghandi-style! I think).
-No matter what B.S. we hear from the lawyers, Notch and the team will have to show patience all the way, he can't go "kicking butts," unless you meant that figuratively in the sense of beating them with a strong argument(text balloon fight!!).
Now my opinions on the lawsuit, again, are:
-"Scrolls" is a word with certain meaning and "Elder Scrolls" with another. There is a distinct difference in connotation. That means, despite them having the denotation of "rolled paper" the hidden meanings, or feelings from those words are different.
-One connotation for each is "papers" and "magical papers." Did you feel the difference? Because this is hard to explain if you haven't gone through grade 8, 9 or 10 English, or English is not your 1st language and/or forgot what denotations and connotations are.
-Elder Scrolls is a series not about scrolls, so I heard and saw, because I haven't really played any of them. But what I just read on Wikipedia says that Oblivion was the first to mention the "elder scrolls" and I'm guessing only certain people are capable of seeing the words on them.
-So they ARE "magical" whereas Scrolls by MojangAB resembles Magic: the Gathering gameplay (or Yu-Gi-Oh! but more of MTG), and the "scrolls" are as if MTG suddenly changed its title to "Cards." Get what I mean?
-Sorry for sidetracking... anyway, the meanings are different and the gameplay and themes are extremely different(aside from "fantasy") in each title: these wrongful reasons in our hearts are less of a reason for Mojang to be sued. Nevertheless, if you watched a couple of serious lawsuit movies, you can tell that Notch being sued is still possible :-(
-Now on the other hand, these are based on opinions, opinions can be convinced, which is the basis of the lawyers job. They can twist the judge or juries' understanding of the situation, so the more time spent on arguing the Bethesda lawyers are right, the chances of winning fall.
I'm not entirely interested in "Scrolls" but I may later, and I still hope that Bethesda is in the wrong here, because my reasoning after all this is that they are being unfair. Ever hear how Magic: the Gathering got its rights to the name? It was going to be just "Magic" but it was too common a word, and copyrighting such kind of word is not allowed. "Scrolls" is different, its not a common everyday word unless you go to Hogwarts, but could still be turned down from getting a copyright. Oh, someone mentioned Dwarf Fortress and Team Fortress, and he/she is right. If Valve tried to sue Dwarf Fortress, I think it would be this same situation. The names imply different connotation, and the gameplay and themes are way different.
I'm honestly sort of on Bethesda's Side, ONLY because I think it's unfair to get a trademark on a single word. What if I wanted a trademark on my game "Weapon"?
Oh no...I'm developing a fangame, and I have an item called "Scroll of the Elders". I have never even known of Elder Scrolls until they threatened to sue Mojang. Will I get sued too?
Actual lawsuit? Or clever marketing scheme? 3 million copies of Minecraft bought. That's 3 million people to be interested in famous indie game maker "Notch"'s next game. What better way to hear about it than to hear that they're being sued by one of our favourite big game corporations? Really, how many of you had heard about Scrolls before this??
I heard about scrolls long ago. And besides, that would be a terrible marketing scheme. It might last a week at most before Bethesda found out, and then there would be a lawsuit that Mojang couldn't get out of.
If Mojang cant handle a speedbump like this then they dont deserve to become a leading company in gaming. I personally love Minecraft, but now that Mojang hits a wall like this everyone is up in arms over it. "Real" gaming companies need to deal with this **** all the time, so if Mojang wants to be a "real" company they need to experience it too. Furthermore, everyone who is upset about a copyright being enforced, please realize that Mojang enforced their copyright of "Minecraft" (which is also a word) when an iPhone game used it.
Mojang can handle this. They're doing it right now.
And enforcing "Minecraft" is different. "Minecraft" is copyrighted. But nowhere does it say that "Scrolls" is copyrighted other than by MOjang itself. Sure, Bethesda copyrighted "Elder Scrolls" but that's different. You don't own every word in a copyrighted title, just the whole title.
this is just sad and pothetic for big name companys to even want to sue some small company (considering how they atleast get 15 million buys, which is much more than minecraft) just for useing "scrolls" in their name. this just shows how greedy some....-let's just stick to family friendly words- people can be, just for some stupid little word. im betting the are going to sue for lots of money, and so it just proves my point of their greed. im telling you, they are probrobly hunting for people to sue, just for a few thousands of dollars or whatever. it's just sad, im telling you.
I play the elder srolls, and I know that barely anyone who plays it or has played it or even heard of it uses the name of the instalment (I.E. Oblivion, Skyrim)and does not use the elder scrolls.
TL;DR
I don't get it.
well, since your too stupid to unterstand that minecraft isnt taking place in space or 1000 years from now, understand that minecraft isnt even in the future, more like the past if anything at all. since your numbers on your I.Q. seem a little low, why dont you leave the typing to the Big Dogs, bro.
I play the elder srolls, and I know that barely anyone who plays it or has played it or even heard of it uses the name of the instalment (I.E. Oblivion, Skyrim)and does not use the elder scrolls.
TL;DR
I don't get it.
:huh.gif: I always refer to it by "The Elder Scrolls: Arena", "The Elder Scrolls II:Daggerfall" "The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind", "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion", and "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim".
Why? Because The Elder Scrolls are my favorite game series, and (to me) it shows respect to say all of it's name instead of just Oblivion, Skyrim, ect.
Rgarber: No. The key here is the context of the title. Using it as an in-game item isn't going to be any sort of an issue, because there's no risk of your product being confused for anyone else's. This isn't about USE of a term, it's about disambiguating different products in the same market niche, despite what the kneejerk herpderp brigade here seems to think. You're fine. If you were, say, producing a PC game called Worrowmind, THEN it'd be time to worry.
well i think there should be a law we it says you can not sue people for using a word like really what are we gonna get sued if we using it in a book name or in a paper or if we say it really it's just so stuiped if the first part of the name is not the same there should be no good reason to so mojang
1. This is NOT a copyright issue. It is a TRADEMARK issue. The laws regarding trademarks are different from laws regarding copyright, and are much more vague.
2. The laws regarding trademarks require that you actively defend your trademark or risk losing it. Even if Bethesda doesn't want to sue Mojang, they HAVE to, or they risk weakening their trademark and possibly losing it entirely.
3. Notch is not some perfect little angel in this case. HE TRIED TO TRADEMARK THE WORD "SCROLLS". This is what Bethesda has a problem with. If Notch (Mojang) successfully trademarks the word "Scrolls" in a video game context, someone could try to trademark a game titled "Fantasy Scrolls", or even "The Ancient Scrolls" and point to this case as a precedent.
If Notch hadn't tried to trademark the word "Scrolls", Bethesda may not have threatened to sue at all. However, because he did try, Bethesda is forced to defend their trademark if they believe there is any chance of it affecting them in a future. What happens if, 5 years from now, Bethesda decide to make a CCG based on their popular Elder Scrolls franchise?
Please go here to actually learn a little about the issue before spouting your uneducated nonsense (not aimed at anyone in particular): http://www.rockpaper...-off-explained/
1. This is NOT a copyright issue. It is a TRADEMARK issue. The laws regarding trademarks are different from laws regarding copyright, and are much more vague.
2. The laws regarding trademarks require that you actively defend your trademark or risk losing it. Even if Bethesda doesn't want to sue Mojang, they HAVE to, or they risk weakening their trademark and possibly losing it entirely.
3. Notch is not some perfect little angel in this case. HE TRIED TO TRADEMARK THE WORD "SCROLLS". This is what Bethesda has a problem with. If Notch (Mojang) successfully trademarks the word "Scrolls" in a video game context, someone could try to trademark a game titled "Fantasy Scrolls", or even "The Ancient Scrolls" and point to this case as a precedent.
If Notch hadn't tried to trademark the word "Scrolls", Bethesda may not have threatened to sue at all. However, because he did try, Bethesda is forced to defend their trademark if they believe there is any chance of it affecting them in a future. What happens if, 5 years from now, Bethesda decide to make a CCG based on their popular Elder Scrolls franchise?
And here I was thinking, that the minecraft forums were full of 14 year olds that didn't know anything about the law system. I thank you, sir.
-It seems Bethesda doesn't have legal ground, but they can certainly, possibly win a lawsuit against MojangAB. That's why it is a risky decision to "fight" back (unless its Ghandi-style in this case). As far as I know, Notch is being smart and safe by peacefully trying to communicate back(yep, Ghandi-style! I think).
-No matter what B.S. we hear from the lawyers, Notch and the team will have to show patience all the way, he can't go "kicking butts," unless you meant that figuratively in the sense of beating them with a strong argument(text balloon fight!!).
Now my opinions on the lawsuit, again, are:
-"Scrolls" is a word with certain meaning and "Elder Scrolls" with another. There is a distinct difference in connotation. That means, despite them having the denotation of "rolled paper" the hidden meanings, or feelings from those words are different.
-One connotation for each is "papers" and "magical papers." Did you feel the difference? Because this is hard to explain if you haven't gone through grade 8, 9 or 10 English, or English is not your 1st language and/or forgot what denotations and connotations are.
-Elder Scrolls is a series not about scrolls, so I heard and saw, because I haven't really played any of them. But what I just read on Wikipedia says that Oblivion was the first to mention the "elder scrolls" and I'm guessing only certain people are capable of seeing the words on them.
-So they ARE "magical" whereas Scrolls by MojangAB resembles Magic: the Gathering gameplay (or Yu-Gi-Oh! but more of MTG), and the "scrolls" are as if MTG suddenly changed its title to "Cards." Get what I mean?
-Sorry for sidetracking... anyway, the meanings are different and the gameplay and themes are extremely different(aside from "fantasy") in each title: these wrongful reasons in our hearts are less of a reason for Mojang to be sued. Nevertheless, if you watched a couple of serious lawsuit movies, you can tell that Notch being sued is still possible :-(
-Now on the other hand, these are based on opinions, opinions can be convinced, which is the basis of the lawyers job. They can twist the judge or juries' understanding of the situation, so the more time spent on arguing the Bethesda lawyers are right, the chances of winning fall.
I'm not entirely interested in "Scrolls" but I may later, and I still hope that Bethesda is in the wrong here, because my reasoning after all this is that they are being unfair. Ever hear how Magic: the Gathering got its rights to the name? It was going to be just "Magic" but it was too common a word, and copyrighting such kind of word is not allowed. "Scrolls" is different, its not a common everyday word unless you go to Hogwarts, but could still be turned down from getting a copyright. Oh, someone mentioned Dwarf Fortress and Team Fortress, and he/she is right. If Valve tried to sue Dwarf Fortress, I think it would be this same situation. The names imply different connotation, and the gameplay and themes are way different.
5 games on the list not connected with The Elder Scrolls series, 3 of which came out at least 20 years ago. the other two havent been released yet..
PCG: SORRY.
"Try not start blaming Bethesda and telling No.....
-snip-
... and themes are way different."
Well, actually its quite simple.
Mojang AB owns the copyright to the intellectual property name "Scrolls".
Bethesda Softworks does not.
Bethesda Softworks owns the intellectual property name "The Elder Scrolls".
Seeing as "Scrolls" is not the same as "The Elder Scrolls", there is no copyright violation.
END.
I have copyrighted the letter E©. Please cease and desist using the letter E© in any and all communications/programs/game titles... without proper authorization (and royalty fees to myself).
- Wildcat
(note: this is a serious question, not sarcasm.)
I heard about scrolls long ago. And besides, that would be a terrible marketing scheme. It might last a week at most before Bethesda found out, and then there would be a lawsuit that Mojang couldn't get out of.
Mojang can handle this. They're doing it right now.
And enforcing "Minecraft" is different. "Minecraft" is copyrighted. But nowhere does it say that "Scrolls" is copyrighted other than by MOjang itself. Sure, Bethesda copyrighted "Elder Scrolls" but that's different. You don't own every word in a copyrighted title, just the whole title.
Pipes
TL;DR
I don't get it.
:huh.gif: I always refer to it by "The Elder Scrolls: Arena", "The Elder Scrolls II:Daggerfall" "The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind", "The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion", and "The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim".
Why? Because The Elder Scrolls are my favorite game series, and (to me) it shows respect to say all of it's name instead of just Oblivion, Skyrim, ect.
1. This is NOT a copyright issue. It is a TRADEMARK issue. The laws regarding trademarks are different from laws regarding copyright, and are much more vague.
2. The laws regarding trademarks require that you actively defend your trademark or risk losing it. Even if Bethesda doesn't want to sue Mojang, they HAVE to, or they risk weakening their trademark and possibly losing it entirely.
3. Notch is not some perfect little angel in this case. HE TRIED TO TRADEMARK THE WORD "SCROLLS". This is what Bethesda has a problem with. If Notch (Mojang) successfully trademarks the word "Scrolls" in a video game context, someone could try to trademark a game titled "Fantasy Scrolls", or even "The Ancient Scrolls" and point to this case as a precedent.
If Notch hadn't tried to trademark the word "Scrolls", Bethesda may not have threatened to sue at all. However, because he did try, Bethesda is forced to defend their trademark if they believe there is any chance of it affecting them in a future. What happens if, 5 years from now, Bethesda decide to make a CCG based on their popular Elder Scrolls franchise?
And here I was thinking, that the minecraft forums were full of 14 year olds that didn't know anything about the law system. I thank you, sir.