I agree with Grum about the login issues. It's a huge security issue in a game where all you've really bought is a login. But he's very wrong about modder's complaints. Mojang has no need to *change* the obfuscation with each version; that creates an enormous additional burden on modders with that policy for no benefit.
I am glad they're working on improving the code and not just dumping out release after release, each requiring a complete rework of all my mods and modpacks. It would be nice to be off that treadmill but at least it's moving slower and that's a relief.
Indeed. Many of the things Grum discussed seem to fully justify the things Mojang has done and will do.
The only thing that was bothering me about what Grum said was his argument about the API and using examples like Bukkit. Maybe I was misinterpreting things but it sounded like the Mod API will be closer to a script extender, not something like Forge or Modloader... which is highly concerning. People didn't wait for years for a client side Bukkit. We want a native mod manager.
It's actually amazing that they will not rush this update. We've received feedback from the developers, stating that there may be rabbits and underwater structures. I'll be hoping that those will be in 1.8, and it will probably silence the whiners that say that 1.8 is not a survival update.
It also means that 1.8 will be much less bug-free, hopefully.
It's actually amazing that they will not rush this update. We've received feedback from the developers, stating that there may be rabbits and underwater structures. I'll be hoping that those will be in 1.8, and it will probably silence the whiners that say that 1.8 is not a survival update.
It also means that 1.8 will be much less bug-free, hopefully.
New generated structures and rabbits don't really fit in the category of "survival features" though, structures are more for the adventuring, and rabbits would probably be there for some extra ambience which is always welcome in my book.
Survival does need an overhaul some time though. Nowadays it is less survival and more a contest of just how much excess you can do. It's survival at the very beginning of a new world but the survival aspect becomes trivial very very quickly.
After reading the recent discussion between Grum and some Modders, I've lost all faith in this company.
[01:25] <Grum> but wait!
[01:25] <Grum> shouldn't the whole 'collective of the opensource internet' be able to make Forge stable in minutes?
[01:26] <Arcanis_> lol what
[01:26] <Arcanis_> People are generally lazy and are fine with expecting someone else to do something.
___
[01:32] <Grum> you do realize that you are making an argument that people should work together to make something, yet no-one has started to make a sane api for the things they want to have abstracted out of the game so they just have to collectively update said api?
Quite frankly, I agree with everything Grum said during the conversation and I agree with all of his phrasing. Arcanis seemed like he had no clue what the Hell he was talking about at any point in the conversation yet still felt the need to talk bad about Grum and Mojang.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The problem with the truth, is that it never lies.
[01:32] <Grum> you do realize that you are making an argument that people should work together to make something, yet no-one has started to make a sane api for the things they want to have abstracted out of the game so they just have to collectively update said api?
There's not one, but two problems here. First, Forge *does* have a lot of API functionality. There's the block registry, the item registry, the ore registry, the biome dictionary, the config system, and event trackers for a large number of events including loads, saves, terrain generation, village generation, missing registrations, and a whole bunch of other events I haven't used yet. So Grum is asking why something hasn't happened when it actually *has* happened.
Second, the main reason there's not more is that APIs are normally written by the software producer, i.e. Mojang, and Mojang has at least been implying, for literally years now, that an API will be along soon. People taking Mojang at their word, which includes most modders, have concluded writing external APIs will be basically wasted effort because it will shortly be superseded. The APIs that have been made, for the most part, are ones that are absolutely necessary for interoperability between mods.
I've written APIs, for my own purposes, for BlockState, for block and item registration and I'm writing one now for persistent storage. I've sort of written an API for world-specific config files (still more of a pattern than an API). Not publication-quality, because it's just for my own use, but definitely API systems. Lots of other mod authors have written their own APIs for minecraft as well, judging by what's in their API files (generally not just for their own code.) I can say in my case the reason I haven't tried to publish and publicize my API efforts is that I see no reason wasting my time pushing something soon to be obsolete. I'm sure other mod authors have had similar thought processes.
I am starting to wonder though, because based on that conversation Mojang doesn't actually have a planned path leading to an API. The changes they're making to the code are generally improvements, from looking at the 1.7 changes, but without a plan they're just going to flounder on the big scale, continually making little improvements but never reaching the destination of adequately clean code for an API. Maybe the modders *do* need to provide intellectual leadership in the form of draft APIs, because if Mojang doesn't have a big plan, they'll get sucked into somebody else's if it's available.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I hate Grum's condescending attitude here. Totally unprofessional.... but he is right on almost everything. The modding community has written itself into a corner and is kicking its feet at Mojang to fix it for them.
I disagree. He gave what he was given. This was not a formal conversation or a press release. I would have cut the guy off about 10 minutes in when it became clear that he 1. claimed to speak for all mod-developers, 2. made it clear that he did not think that Mojang should have the last word on how the internals of Minecraft were designed and written.
It is very nice of Mojang to take input from the community, but they have to be really careful when doing. Software written by community can become useless crap very quickly. I cannot believe what "community input" did to Star Wars Galaxies. It just totally destroyed it.
Then again I also lost a lost of respect for Grum based on his comments about SSH, and shells in Windows. Boy did he show his ignorance about Windows.
I am glad they are taking their time, but 10 months is more than enough IMO. So far all they've added really are minor things, except for slime blocks, new enchanting system, and the new custom world generation. It took way less time to implement new biomes, and that's way more new content than what's in 1.8. I don't see what's taking them so long, honestly.
I'm even more anxious for this than any other update, which is making the wait harder. I can't wait until I don't have to be stuck with the username itsCJR_4.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vanilla is the best way to play Minecraft, In my opinion. Plugins suck.
Please use proper spelling and grammar in your posts.
I am glad they are taking their time, but 10 months is more than enough IMO. So far all they've added really are minor things, except for slime blocks, new enchanting system, and the new custom world generation. It took way less time to implement new biomes, and that's way more new content than what's in 1.8. I don't see what's taking them so long, honestly.
I'm even more anxious for this than any other update, which is making the wait harder. I can't wait until I don't have to be stuck with the username itsCJR_4.
"All they added have been minor things. Except the major things they added." Amazing logic and reasoning skills, 10/10, good job.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The problem with the truth, is that it never lies.
I am glad they are taking their time, but 10 months is more than enough IMO. It took way less time to implement new biomes, and that's way more new content than what's in 1.8. I don't see what's taking them so long, honestly.
I'm even more anxious for this than any other update, which is making the wait harder. I can't wait until I don't have to be stuck with the username itsCJR_4.
"All they added have been minor things. Except the major things they added." Amazing logic and reasoning skills, 10/10, good job.
Happy Now? I took that part out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vanilla is the best way to play Minecraft, In my opinion. Plugins suck.
Please use proper spelling and grammar in your posts.
They're supposedly rewriting from scratch huge parts of the code to make the API or who knows what Mojang is doing at this point.
They're also fixing a lot of bugs and glitches, there's a lot of bugfixes in each new snapshot, and maybe they are also planning even new more features; we've seen a picture of those "underwater dungeons" or whatever they are going to be, so maybe that's a new 1.8 feature. If you were stuck with that name for a year or more, you can wait a few more months cant you?
I'm really excited for 1.8 but I'm patient and I'll wait, there's a lot to do in other versions too. You could also play the snapshots, I know they're not fully stable and mods and servers don't update to snapshots, but still...
I lost interest in Minecraft in 1.7 to be honest. I agree with the changes now, giving the user more choice in what type of world they want, but there's gonna be so many problems, and so much hassle with the new ID System.
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Can you match my resolve? If so then you will succeed. - Monty Oum
So Minecraft Wiki was lying to me. Whenever I went to "Upcoming Features", it said "1.8 is a future Minecraft update that will possibly be released in May". Now, it says, "No release date provided."
The Wiki was just providing conventional wisdom. In the past, multiple snapshots with just bugfixes have indicated a release is coming soon. The writers weren't "lying", they were just unable to telepathically determine Mojang had changed its policy.
Besides, everybody should know better than to rely on any Wiki as an authoritative source. Wikis get mistaken info and yes, sometimes even lies, inserted all the time; it's just that *most* of the time bad info gets fixed fairly quickly.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
Indeed. Many of the things Grum discussed seem to fully justify the things Mojang has done and will do.
The only thing that was bothering me about what Grum said was his argument about the API and using examples like Bukkit. Maybe I was misinterpreting things but it sounded like the Mod API will be closer to a script extender, not something like Forge or Modloader... which is highly concerning. People didn't wait for years for a client side Bukkit. We want a native mod manager.
Praise be to Spode.
It also means that 1.8 will be much less bug-free, hopefully.
Praise be to Spode.
Survival does need an overhaul some time though. Nowadays it is less survival and more a contest of just how much excess you can do. It's survival at the very beginning of a new world but the survival aspect becomes trivial very very quickly.
[01:25] <Grum> but wait!
[01:25] <Grum> shouldn't the whole 'collective of the opensource internet' be able to make Forge stable in minutes?
[01:26] <Arcanis_> lol what
[01:26] <Arcanis_> People are generally lazy and are fine with expecting someone else to do something.
___
[01:32] <Grum> you do realize that you are making an argument that people should work together to make something, yet no-one has started to make a sane api for the things they want to have abstracted out of the game so they just have to collectively update said api?
grum made my day.
Miner's nightmare preset
Miner's nightmare preset (original terrain)
Killing the Ender Dragon, no damage (no armor/potions/enchantments/pumpkin)
That's one of the most silly strawmen I've ever seen.
There's not one, but two problems here. First, Forge *does* have a lot of API functionality. There's the block registry, the item registry, the ore registry, the biome dictionary, the config system, and event trackers for a large number of events including loads, saves, terrain generation, village generation, missing registrations, and a whole bunch of other events I haven't used yet. So Grum is asking why something hasn't happened when it actually *has* happened.
Second, the main reason there's not more is that APIs are normally written by the software producer, i.e. Mojang, and Mojang has at least been implying, for literally years now, that an API will be along soon. People taking Mojang at their word, which includes most modders, have concluded writing external APIs will be basically wasted effort because it will shortly be superseded. The APIs that have been made, for the most part, are ones that are absolutely necessary for interoperability between mods.
I've written APIs, for my own purposes, for BlockState, for block and item registration and I'm writing one now for persistent storage. I've sort of written an API for world-specific config files (still more of a pattern than an API). Not publication-quality, because it's just for my own use, but definitely API systems. Lots of other mod authors have written their own APIs for minecraft as well, judging by what's in their API files (generally not just for their own code.) I can say in my case the reason I haven't tried to publish and publicize my API efforts is that I see no reason wasting my time pushing something soon to be obsolete. I'm sure other mod authors have had similar thought processes.
I am starting to wonder though, because based on that conversation Mojang doesn't actually have a planned path leading to an API. The changes they're making to the code are generally improvements, from looking at the 1.7 changes, but without a plan they're just going to flounder on the big scale, continually making little improvements but never reaching the destination of adequately clean code for an API. Maybe the modders *do* need to provide intellectual leadership in the form of draft APIs, because if Mojang doesn't have a big plan, they'll get sucked into somebody else's if it's available.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
I disagree. He gave what he was given. This was not a formal conversation or a press release. I would have cut the guy off about 10 minutes in when it became clear that he 1. claimed to speak for all mod-developers, 2. made it clear that he did not think that Mojang should have the last word on how the internals of Minecraft were designed and written.
It is very nice of Mojang to take input from the community, but they have to be really careful when doing. Software written by community can become useless crap very quickly. I cannot believe what "community input" did to Star Wars Galaxies. It just totally destroyed it.
Then again I also lost a lost of respect for Grum based on his comments about SSH, and shells in Windows. Boy did he show his ignorance about Windows.
I'm even more anxious for this than any other update, which is making the wait harder. I can't wait until I don't have to be stuck with the username itsCJR_4.
"All they added have been minor things. Except the major things they added." Amazing logic and reasoning skills, 10/10, good job.
Happy Now? I took that part out.
They're also fixing a lot of bugs and glitches, there's a lot of bugfixes in each new snapshot, and maybe they are also planning even new more features; we've seen a picture of those "underwater dungeons" or whatever they are going to be, so maybe that's a new 1.8 feature. If you were stuck with that name for a year or more, you can wait a few more months cant you?
I'm really excited for 1.8 but I'm patient and I'll wait, there's a lot to do in other versions too. You could also play the snapshots, I know they're not fully stable and mods and servers don't update to snapshots, but still...
gg dice
Besides, everybody should know better than to rely on any Wiki as an authoritative source. Wikis get mistaken info and yes, sometimes even lies, inserted all the time; it's just that *most* of the time bad info gets fixed fairly quickly.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.