I'm not saying that.
I'm saying it takes that long to test the absolute most basic things to make sure they at least work.
For ****s sake they could have tested furnaces in under 5 minutes and found the crash bug, especially since the furnace and chest bugs have both happened before. It doesn't take that long to say "Okay I made a new block, lets go hit it with a few different things and see what happens!" either.
Assuming their computer is the same hardware and software as everyone who experienced each bug, that is true.
But unfortunately that is not realistic.
Something tells me that Jeb and I are operating different computing environments.
For the record, I used the furnace over 20 times before the bug happened.
Learn to debug before you make comments about how they're doing it wrong. Or at the least display some humility by asking if it is that easy before you ACCUSE them of ineptitude.
1.8 is what I expected to be. I read all of the update news before it came out, a little disappointing when NPCs were not implemented, and leveling did nothing. But I would rather have strongholds, a new biome, abandoned mine shafts, a hunger bar, chests update, iron bars, glass panes, giant mushrooms, melons, pumpkin seeds, etc. now than wait a couple weeks more for 2 more features out of the many offered in 1.8.
Even more accurately: You were promised a cupcake. You expected a cupcake. The cupcake was more complicated to build than previously expected. You got a muffin while they finished making your cupcake. Still good, but disappointing. But when you get your cupcake, now its also going to have sprinkles.
I feel that you've completely missed the point of what I've been trying to say.
I'm disappointed because I was expecting it to be done, not for a date, but for a build number. 1.8 was supposed to be the whole thing. They gave us half. Not even a fully developed half, just a compilation of unfinished projects. I wouldn't have minded so much if they finished the NPCs, mobs, and combat for 1.8 and saved the terrain, farming, and populators for 1.9 (or any combination of completed projects). If they had done that, it wouldn't seem like a half-assed build. On top of that, I could give some real input on what does and does not work. But that's not what happened. They just packaged whatever they had and threw it out there. I can't provide feedback because the problems I find might just simply be a result of unfinished code. Hence the irrelevance.
You can't expect them to release a bug free game..
People need to realise they can't possible test a game for everyone single person in the entire worlds environment..
For Example i have been playing 1.8 fine without the memory leak crashes however 2 mates of mine crash every 5 to 10 minutes.
My assumption is that im running a good gaming system (i7 3.04 12gb DDR3 with GTX460 in SLI, win 7 pro 64bit)
where was they are running stuff like laptops that are 3+ years old running vista with less then 4gb of ram
I tried it on my laptop which is win 7 pro with only 4gb and i got the memory leak.
as long as people are aware they need beta players like us to FIND these bugs and report them then they can resolve them. Unfortantly they made the game so widely available to people who are not really old enough to understand all of this YET so they all just ***** n moan..
Just have patience people they will fix it.. Remember the final release is in november so just wait and enjoy what you currently have
I feel that you've completely missed the point of what I've been trying to say.
I'm disappointed because I was expecting it to be done, not for a date, but for a build number. 1.8 was supposed to be the whole thing. They gave us half. Not even a fully developed half, just a compilation of unfinished projects. I wouldn't have minded so much if they finished the NPCs, mobs, and combat for 1.8 and saved the terrain, farming, and populators for 1.9 (or any combination of completed projects). If they had done that, it wouldn't seem like a half-assed build. On top of that, I could give some real input on what does and does not work. But that's not what happened. They just packaged whatever they had and threw it out there. I can't provide feedback because the problems I find might just simply be a result of unfinished code. Hence the irrelevance.
If the code is unfinished, anything you can or might say may influence how it IS finished.
Similarly, nothing is ever finished until the game hits final release, because many things simply are put in the game that are going to be changed to accommodate new game mechanisms. A good example of this would be that NPC will possibly be one of the last things to be finished in the game because how they will work will largely be dependent on the world they ave to reference, and until its finished, they will always be half-done.
Why don't you suggest something relevant?
For example: I think that towns need a way to naturally repel monsters. Possibly invisible borders that keep monsters out, stone walls, or guards. Perhaps all three. If the stone wall method is used, it could also create a zone of non-aggression that means that you could be attacked by all the villagers if you destroy any blocks within it, start a fire, take wheat, attack any NPCs in the area, etc
If you give robust suggestions, its very easy for Notch to ignore all of it and go 'ah, yes' to some of it he had not thought of.
If they already thought of this, they will discard your idea.
Yes, but if you beta-read a book or something, telling them to make the book for you and ignore their own vision would just be useless. Quite frankly, testers are not here to TELL the designer how to make their game, they are here to SUPPORT the designer making their game.
Really? I've never had a problem with this.
Ah, but you don't beta read books. You edit them. You bring up questions like "I don't understand why x thought y when z happened" or "This detail is irrelevant and doesn't need to be here" or "I think the story would flow better if you explained x first". The story will be the same, but it will make more sense, and in the same way an editor can improve a book, this community can improve Minecraft. We can say something feels too hard, too simple, boring, or we really enjoy. Many of us won't know why something is fun or unfun, but we know that it is. That input can be quite valuable.
Looking at the community as just testers is another flawed notion. We are the players. We are the people that are going to play Minecraft and be entertained by it. We can give notch valuable input about what we like, dislike, find fun, and find boring. I agree that often times game developers know more about creating a fun experience than players, but that doesn't make player input invalid. Sometimes developers come across features that they never intended to implement but make it into builds and the players absolutely love them.
As far as bugs are concerned, yes there will be bugs. Yes it is our job to find them. That doesn't mean some of them shouldn't be obvious, considering they were found within five minutes of release. Don't you test your stuff to make sure it doesn't crash within five minutes of normal gameplay? The frustration people are expressing here is with game breaking bugs that should have been fairly obvious.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Stupid people say stupid things. Sometimes smart people say stupid things too. It's when the stupid people say smart things that life gets interesting.
I'm honestly content with the update, and looking forward to more. I do agree that we need to be a great deal more patient in the future though. I feel bad that the team was harassed so much over this.
Well maybe is people didn't constantly complain about getting the update out faster maybe it would meet your amazingly high expectations. This is why we have mods
Ah, but you don't beta read books. You edit them. You bring up questions like "I don't understand why x thought y when z happened" or "This detail is irrelevant and doesn't need to be here" or "I think the story would flow better if you explained x first". The story will be the same, but it will make more sense, and in the same way an editor can improve a book, this community can improve Minecraft. We can say something feels too hard, too simple, boring, or we really enjoy. Many of us won't know why something is fun or unfun, but we know that it is. That input can be quite valuable.
Looking at the community as just testers is another flawed notion. We are the players. We are the people that are going to play Minecraft and be entertained by it. We can give notch valuable input about what we like, dislike, find fun, and find boring. I agree that often times game developers know more about creating a fun experience than players, but that doesn't make player input invalid. Sometimes developers come across features that they never intended to implement but make it into builds and the players absolutely love them.
As far as bugs are concerned, yes there will be bugs. Yes it is our job to find them. That doesn't mean some of them shouldn't be obvious, considering they were found within five minutes of release. Don't you test your stuff to make sure it doesn't crash within five minutes of normal gameplay? The frustration people are expressing here is with game breaking bugs that should have been fairly obvious.
A fairly valid and well stated argument, but if you go into the Diablo 3 Beta and ***** about the distinct lack of laser cannons and spaceship fight scenes, you are only wasting other peoples time. Overly diluting the concept from the core idea can seriously undermine the intended function of the game. A screwdriver is not a hammer, although I have used a screwdriver to hammer things in before. But putting a hammer and a screwdriver together would likely be... irrelevant, if you can just have a good hammer, and a good screwdriver. There will always be people who don't like the mix, and if you are enthusiastic about screwdrivers and don't really care about hammers, you may be very frustrated with a large minority of individuals yelling at your to include more hammer parts in your screwdriver design.
Also, once again, finding bugs on a single computer is NOT THAT EASY. Wanna guess how many of the pre-release bugs I ran into in the 10 or so hours I played it?
Pro-tip: I was smelting lots of things and found not a single problem.
If the code is unfinished, anything you can or might say may influence how it IS finished.
Similarly, nothing is ever finished until the game hits final release, because many things simply are put in the game that are going to be changed to accommodate new game mechanisms. A good example of this would be that NPC will possibly be one of the last things to be finished in the game because how they will work will largely be dependent on the world they ave to reference, and until its finished, they will always be half-done.
Why don't you suggest something relevant?
For example: I think that towns need a way to naturally repel monsters. Possibly invisible borders that keep monsters out, stone walls, or guards. Perhaps all three. If the stone wall method is used, it could also create a zone of non-aggression that means that you could be attacked by all the villagers if you destroy any blocks within it, start a fire, take wheat, attack any NPCs in the area, etc
If you give robust suggestions, its very easy for Notch to ignore all of it and go 'ah, yes' to some of it he had not thought of.
If they already thought of this, they will discard your idea.
There's a difference between unfinished as a result of a lack of idea, and unfinished as a result of rushing. It doesn't take much to figure out that I'm talking about the latter. Terrain gen, NPCs, mobs, these were not unfinished because they had a creative block. They were unfinished because they rushed.
There's a difference between unfinished as a result of a lack of idea, and unfinished as a result of rushing. It doesn't take much to figure out that I'm talking about the latter. Terrain gen, NPCs, mobs, these were not unfinished because they had a creative block. They were unfinished because they rushed.
I didn't think either of those to be true.
They feel unfinished because they are waiting for other things to be implemented before they decide how best to handle them. For example, spiderwebs were added long before abandoned mines, but notch was still waiting for an appropriate game mechanic that made them feel like they fit before he implemented them fully into the game. So he just left them alone and then when abandoned mineshafts came in he said to himself: "NOW IS TIME".
I guarantee notch has 1000 unimplemented ideas still, and some of them are probably so dependent on other ideas that he is trying to get them into the game in the order he feels is most appropriate. Every programmer has a different creative method.
Mojang has enough money to spend on a few different systems on which they could test fresh builds for game breaking bugs. Half an hour of normal gameplay on each system as well as testing in suspected trouble areas could've averted things like the furnace bug and the chest crash. Averting game breaking bugs so your beta testers can test for less obvious bugs is probably a good investment of time and money.
As far as Minecraft being Notch's hammer/screwdriver and people wanting to add more ideas from the other. Sometimes people are right and sometimes they're wrong. As far as I'm concerned, Minecraft is a Swiss army knife.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Stupid people say stupid things. Sometimes smart people say stupid things too. It's when the stupid people say smart things that life gets interesting.
I didn't think either of those to be true.
They feel unfinished because they are waiting for other things to be implemented before they decide how best to handle them. For example, spiderwebs were added long before abandoned mines, but notch was still waiting for an appropriate game mechanic that made them feel like they fit before he implemented them fully into the game. So he just left them alone and then when abandoned mineshafts came in he said to himself: "NOW IS TIME".
I guarantee notch has 1000 unimplemented ideas still, and some of them are probably so dependent on other ideas that he is trying to get them into the game in the order he feels is most appropriate. Every programmer has a different creative method.
I really wish you would take the time to read what I actually said.
I didn't think either of those to be true.
They feel unfinished because they are waiting for other things to be implemented before they decide how best to handle them. For example, spiderwebs were added long before abandoned mines, but notch was still waiting for an appropriate game mechanic that made them feel like they fit before he implemented them fully into the game. So he just left them alone and then when abandoned mineshafts came in he said to himself: "NOW IS TIME".
I guarantee notch has 1000 unimplemented ideas still, and some of them are probably so dependent on other ideas that he is trying to get them into the game in the order he feels is most appropriate. Every programmer has a different creative method.
That's not really an excuse for not finishing the new biome code they were advertising. If they don't generate a new block, sure, fine. We can generate some new chunks in another update. But there are entire biomes that are missing from the game, biomes we had in previous versions of the game. This is the kind of thing people want and are annoyed about.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Stupid people say stupid things. Sometimes smart people say stupid things too. It's when the stupid people say smart things that life gets interesting.
Mojang has enough money to spend on a few different systems on which they could test fresh builds for game breaking bugs. Half an hour of normal gameplay on each system as well as testing in suspected trouble areas could've averted things like the furnace bug and the chest crash. Averting game breaking bugs so your beta testers can test for less obvious bugs is probably a good investment of time and money.
Strongly disagree to this.
For all you know they already do that.
As i had said previously.. there is way to much variety of players out there for them to cater for every single person.
You can have a machine that is 3 to 5 years old that is running perfectly fine vs a new machine bought 2 months ago not being able to play it fully.
I believe they are doing the best they can to address the issues being put forward to them. Also the fact that released 1.8 after less then 24hrs after the Prerelease 2 was out gives you an idea they are working on it.
People are just saying have patience.. expect bugs.. try to work around them. if 1.8 crashes to much... go back to 1.7.3
what they should be doing is opening up a site where you can obtain the previous versions..
A big reason that I was personally disappointed was because of the pre-release
They made it look like they were going to fix up the update and get everything working before making a dedicated official "Minecraft Beta 1.8" but they didn't. They left Jeb alone to fix a few bugs by himself then called it a release which was a HUGE letdown for me.
Us. We begged, we spammed, we rushed, we pestered, and we annoyed. We asked for a buggy, incomplete update just so we could play something new, and we got we asked for. We got what we deserved.
Those of you that are happy, fine. Those of you that are unhappy but demanded updates, I suggest you think more about your actions in the future. Those of you that sat quietly and waited, you have my deepest respect. I wish there were more people like you on these forums.
/end community scolding.
I sat quietly and waited. I wasn't in a hurry as I was enjoying playing around with current mods on 1.73. This update for ppl using heavily modded 1.73 could easily be a disappointment as an unmodded 1.8 isn't going to have those modded bells and whistles. Give a few weeks for the mods to start arriving for 1.8 and then the hue and cry will die down.
I've only played a couple of hours of 1.8 and because of the way my 1.73 is modded, it seems a bit too easy to play. Too much available food and the 'health' ups from killing any mods makes it much easier to survive in fights.
That said there are some positives too. I like the eating food aspect now. No more 'accidently' eating food by right clicking when you thought you were on something like the bow or fishing rod and in fact were on some food. Then there's a new mob, haven't come across it yet or many of the other new things. Trees aren't as easy to use for 'under' shelter from mobs as they all seem to be tall enough for them to walk under now, but that will just mean adjusting gameplay.
What I like most about the update is its so different to 1.73 that we actually now have 2 distinct versions of minecraft we can play. How kool is that?
So you're saying... you don't want the update til 1.9?
Well then go back to 1.7.3 until 1.9.
I fail to see the problem.
Then it won't be rushed for you! Yay!
He's saying he doesn't want the update until it's feature complete.
Yours is a great solution. If it were just him. The problem is that this game comes with something called Multiplayer, which many players enjoy and which will suffer greatly from a half update.
Large servers are going to be under pressure from their playerbases to update to 1.8 so people can have the features from 1.8. For many servers with limited hardware capabilities and limited map sizes, this means regenerating a new map, which in turn angers the server builders who are upset at the prospect of losing their structures. A possible solution to this is to migrate many structures using an outside program like MCEdit, but of course this means someone will have to do the actual moving. What servers found out when it was discovered that the update would be split was that they either must go through this mess twice, or wait to update until 1.9, which would of course mean angering one of the player groups.
Splitting the adventure update, especially biome generation, essentially causes civil wars within large servers, which can result in people leaving said servers, which is no fun for anyone. The update was not very well thought out, particularly for those who strictly play multiplayer.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Stupid people say stupid things. Sometimes smart people say stupid things too. It's when the stupid people say smart things that life gets interesting.
Assuming their computer is the same hardware and software as everyone who experienced each bug, that is true.
But unfortunately that is not realistic.
Something tells me that Jeb and I are operating different computing environments.
For the record, I used the furnace over 20 times before the bug happened.
Learn to debug before you make comments about how they're doing it wrong. Or at the least display some humility by asking if it is that easy before you ACCUSE them of ineptitude.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
I feel that you've completely missed the point of what I've been trying to say.
I'm disappointed because I was expecting it to be done, not for a date, but for a build number. 1.8 was supposed to be the whole thing. They gave us half. Not even a fully developed half, just a compilation of unfinished projects. I wouldn't have minded so much if they finished the NPCs, mobs, and combat for 1.8 and saved the terrain, farming, and populators for 1.9 (or any combination of completed projects). If they had done that, it wouldn't seem like a half-assed build. On top of that, I could give some real input on what does and does not work. But that's not what happened. They just packaged whatever they had and threw it out there. I can't provide feedback because the problems I find might just simply be a result of unfinished code. Hence the irrelevance.
People need to realise they can't possible test a game for everyone single person in the entire worlds environment..
For Example i have been playing 1.8 fine without the memory leak crashes however 2 mates of mine crash every 5 to 10 minutes.
My assumption is that im running a good gaming system (i7 3.04 12gb DDR3 with GTX460 in SLI, win 7 pro 64bit)
where was they are running stuff like laptops that are 3+ years old running vista with less then 4gb of ram
I tried it on my laptop which is win 7 pro with only 4gb and i got the memory leak.
as long as people are aware they need beta players like us to FIND these bugs and report them then they can resolve them. Unfortantly they made the game so widely available to people who are not really old enough to understand all of this YET so they all just ***** n moan..
Just have patience people they will fix it.. Remember the final release is in november so just wait and enjoy what you currently have
If the code is unfinished, anything you can or might say may influence how it IS finished.
Similarly, nothing is ever finished until the game hits final release, because many things simply are put in the game that are going to be changed to accommodate new game mechanisms. A good example of this would be that NPC will possibly be one of the last things to be finished in the game because how they will work will largely be dependent on the world they ave to reference, and until its finished, they will always be half-done.
Why don't you suggest something relevant?
For example: I think that towns need a way to naturally repel monsters. Possibly invisible borders that keep monsters out, stone walls, or guards. Perhaps all three. If the stone wall method is used, it could also create a zone of non-aggression that means that you could be attacked by all the villagers if you destroy any blocks within it, start a fire, take wheat, attack any NPCs in the area, etc
If you give robust suggestions, its very easy for Notch to ignore all of it and go 'ah, yes' to some of it he had not thought of.
If they already thought of this, they will discard your idea.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
Ah, but you don't beta read books. You edit them. You bring up questions like "I don't understand why x thought y when z happened" or "This detail is irrelevant and doesn't need to be here" or "I think the story would flow better if you explained x first". The story will be the same, but it will make more sense, and in the same way an editor can improve a book, this community can improve Minecraft. We can say something feels too hard, too simple, boring, or we really enjoy. Many of us won't know why something is fun or unfun, but we know that it is. That input can be quite valuable.
Looking at the community as just testers is another flawed notion. We are the players. We are the people that are going to play Minecraft and be entertained by it. We can give notch valuable input about what we like, dislike, find fun, and find boring. I agree that often times game developers know more about creating a fun experience than players, but that doesn't make player input invalid. Sometimes developers come across features that they never intended to implement but make it into builds and the players absolutely love them.
As far as bugs are concerned, yes there will be bugs. Yes it is our job to find them. That doesn't mean some of them shouldn't be obvious, considering they were found within five minutes of release. Don't you test your stuff to make sure it doesn't crash within five minutes of normal gameplay? The frustration people are expressing here is with game breaking bugs that should have been fairly obvious.
A fairly valid and well stated argument, but if you go into the Diablo 3 Beta and ***** about the distinct lack of laser cannons and spaceship fight scenes, you are only wasting other peoples time. Overly diluting the concept from the core idea can seriously undermine the intended function of the game. A screwdriver is not a hammer, although I have used a screwdriver to hammer things in before. But putting a hammer and a screwdriver together would likely be... irrelevant, if you can just have a good hammer, and a good screwdriver. There will always be people who don't like the mix, and if you are enthusiastic about screwdrivers and don't really care about hammers, you may be very frustrated with a large minority of individuals yelling at your to include more hammer parts in your screwdriver design.
Also, once again, finding bugs on a single computer is NOT THAT EASY. Wanna guess how many of the pre-release bugs I ran into in the 10 or so hours I played it?
Pro-tip: I was smelting lots of things and found not a single problem.
lrn2computer
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
There's a difference between unfinished as a result of a lack of idea, and unfinished as a result of rushing. It doesn't take much to figure out that I'm talking about the latter. Terrain gen, NPCs, mobs, these were not unfinished because they had a creative block. They were unfinished because they rushed.
I didn't think either of those to be true.
They feel unfinished because they are waiting for other things to be implemented before they decide how best to handle them. For example, spiderwebs were added long before abandoned mines, but notch was still waiting for an appropriate game mechanic that made them feel like they fit before he implemented them fully into the game. So he just left them alone and then when abandoned mineshafts came in he said to himself: "NOW IS TIME".
I guarantee notch has 1000 unimplemented ideas still, and some of them are probably so dependent on other ideas that he is trying to get them into the game in the order he feels is most appropriate. Every programmer has a different creative method.
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
As far as Minecraft being Notch's hammer/screwdriver and people wanting to add more ideas from the other. Sometimes people are right and sometimes they're wrong. As far as I'm concerned, Minecraft is a Swiss army knife.
I really wish you would take the time to read what I actually said.
That's not really an excuse for not finishing the new biome code they were advertising. If they don't generate a new block, sure, fine. We can generate some new chunks in another update. But there are entire biomes that are missing from the game, biomes we had in previous versions of the game. This is the kind of thing people want and are annoyed about.
So you're saying... you don't want the update til 1.9?
Well then go back to 1.7.3 until 1.9.
I fail to see the problem.
Then it won't be rushed for you! Yay!
http://notch.tumblr.com/post/123343045/my-vision-for-survival (follow this link if you need proof)
Strongly disagree to this.
For all you know they already do that.
As i had said previously.. there is way to much variety of players out there for them to cater for every single person.
You can have a machine that is 3 to 5 years old that is running perfectly fine vs a new machine bought 2 months ago not being able to play it fully.
I believe they are doing the best they can to address the issues being put forward to them. Also the fact that released 1.8 after less then 24hrs after the Prerelease 2 was out gives you an idea they are working on it.
People are just saying have patience.. expect bugs.. try to work around them. if 1.8 crashes to much... go back to 1.7.3
what they should be doing is opening up a site where you can obtain the previous versions..
A big reason that I was personally disappointed was because of the pre-release
They made it look like they were going to fix up the update and get everything working before making a dedicated official "Minecraft Beta 1.8" but they didn't. They left Jeb alone to fix a few bugs by himself then called it a release which was a HUGE letdown for me.
I sat quietly and waited. I wasn't in a hurry as I was enjoying playing around with current mods on 1.73. This update for ppl using heavily modded 1.73 could easily be a disappointment as an unmodded 1.8 isn't going to have those modded bells and whistles. Give a few weeks for the mods to start arriving for 1.8 and then the hue and cry will die down.
I've only played a couple of hours of 1.8 and because of the way my 1.73 is modded, it seems a bit too easy to play. Too much available food and the 'health' ups from killing any mods makes it much easier to survive in fights.
That said there are some positives too. I like the eating food aspect now. No more 'accidently' eating food by right clicking when you thought you were on something like the bow or fishing rod and in fact were on some food. Then there's a new mob, haven't come across it yet or many of the other new things. Trees aren't as easy to use for 'under' shelter from mobs as they all seem to be tall enough for them to walk under now, but that will just mean adjusting gameplay.
What I like most about the update is its so different to 1.73 that we actually now have 2 distinct versions of minecraft we can play. How kool is that?
He's saying he doesn't want the update until it's feature complete.
Yours is a great solution. If it were just him. The problem is that this game comes with something called Multiplayer, which many players enjoy and which will suffer greatly from a half update.
Large servers are going to be under pressure from their playerbases to update to 1.8 so people can have the features from 1.8. For many servers with limited hardware capabilities and limited map sizes, this means regenerating a new map, which in turn angers the server builders who are upset at the prospect of losing their structures. A possible solution to this is to migrate many structures using an outside program like MCEdit, but of course this means someone will have to do the actual moving. What servers found out when it was discovered that the update would be split was that they either must go through this mess twice, or wait to update until 1.9, which would of course mean angering one of the player groups.
Splitting the adventure update, especially biome generation, essentially causes civil wars within large servers, which can result in people leaving said servers, which is no fun for anyone. The update was not very well thought out, particularly for those who strictly play multiplayer.