I just hate Endermen. I don't get how some people can like them, they are totally useless and annoying. They are supposed to be scary, yet are passive unless YOU provoke them, and even then, they are not hard to kill at all, I personally find skeletons harder to deal with.
Add to that the fact they grief (thing that most of the smp players hate), but because they are mobs it should be ok? Every time i get griefed by an enderman, it's like Notch himself is griefing me. Oh and while i'm at it, someone said he liked to repair his buildings over and over, because that was "survival", so if he hosts a server it would be my pleasure to grief him over and over, enderman style.
They ruin mobtraps (and if you can't understand why some people use mobtraps, I think you either build little 4x4 houses and that's all, or only want to kill mobs by hand (in which case you should play games like dead island instead of minecraft), or use mods such as too many items or invedit.)
They also ruin the landscape, i'm sick tired of these floating trees all around my map, because some enderman wanted to grab that piece of wood. It's UGLY, pointless and don't tell me I have to light up all forest/swamp biomes please.
I'm just glad we have a nice modding community to make up for Notch mistakes.
Well, considering the fact that Mob traps can be considered a gross way of cheating in this game (because you're keeping yourself completely out of harms way, which may not be what Notch intended), maybe Mojang intended for the mob traps to be rendered useless. Just a thought, because the game now (and in the future) features new elements that changes the paradigm.
you demand pictures? you will get them!
These are the result of ONE night, so you might guess what happens if you leave them alone while you're doing your work...
these damages are minor, but if they stack together you might have serious problems (the not supposed door with the creeper coming through is just one example)
Are people seriously still arguing about whether or not Endermen move player placed blocks? There are like a million videos showing that they do... how is this still up for debate?
Don't worry, they don't. We've already redesigned them ender-proofed.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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Dude you do know that Notch hates mob grinders right? There's no way he's going to remove enderman's block picking up ability.
Actually, I don't know that. I've heard it often, but have never seen evidence of this. Moreover, XP doesn't drop from mobs killed in grinders, which means they could have done the same for regular drops, but chose not to, which means they don't "hate" grinders. If they did, why not cancel regular drops as well?
Lastly, hating ingenuity and creativity and learning the game's mechanics to create sophisticated tools, if Notch and company hate that, they're clearly on the wrong track. Sorry to break the news to you, but pistons, redstone, and all the stuff that allows you to create machines and systems, so far, their best use and most rewarding is to create "grinders".
Then Notch can suck those things dangling between my legs.
It's the basic evolution of survival. Mankind began in a state where it had to migrate around the world, chasing down animals to kill for food, leathers, etc. Over time man learned the benefits of breeding animals for a more permanent supply of food.
There are even game preserves that allow for the preservation of animal populations while allowing controlled hunting.
Passive and aggressive mob farms are of a similar vein. You start the game having to search for your materials and you grow to a point that you control the supply. Take that away and what's the point?
I'll build the occasional "pretty" structure, but almost everything I make is functional, and usually based around being a large, efficient MOB trap; combining form with function. Everything I've build I've done so in Survival, as well, meaning I've had to work for every stone, every rail, every dye. That work makes the result significantly more satisfying.
8 separate MOB collecting waterways and moat going to a central collection point, complete with elevators to extend the waterways.
A spread of waterways for mob collection. Very efficient given the limited spawnable areas around.
Four mob spawn areas (aggessive inside, passive on top) feeding into a central collection point. Incredibly efficient.
Enderman will have a god damn field day with these, and in the process completely ruin how I like to play the game.
Damn, these are epic! Just wait until someone calls you "lazy" because you don't hunt for the stuff... Congrats on the epicness! I'd not mind seeing more pictures if you feel like it.
Survival mode should have stopped in the last version and 1.8 should have included a new "Adventure" mode, with less emphasis on building and more on going out and fighting.
That way they'd have the extremes (creative and adventure) and Survival being in the middle, supporting the gameplay we've all grown accustom to: mob traps, mechanisms (including pistons), etc., and basically building in a world where you need to get the resources for yourself.
P.S. If Notch is intent on changing the very nature of the game then he should at least allow us to download older versions legitimately. 1.8 introduces some nice things, but if he actively pushes us in certain directions with new game mechanics, Minecraft is becoming less an less of a sandbox game.
I think dividing the game into different aspects with loose connections between them is a bad idea. The strong point of Minecraft is its freedom. At any second, I can decide to go hunting even though I built tons of structures. Or I can go exploring, or mining. Remove any of these possibilities and the game will be less rich for it.
This idea isn't originally mine, however I think instead of having to place massive moats and spam torches we should have some kind of Endermen repelant. The one I refer to being a totem/torch however you prefer. It would require an Enderpearl on top and then perhaps a fence post or red stone torch beneath in the crafting table. It would then create a torch/totem that could be placed, say with a reach of 15 blocks in any direction, and glows say green when active. Thus the torch/totem wouldn't even have to be in the mob grinder if it's small enough. Or the torch/totem could just disable them from picking up block within the area of influence. It would solve the problem. However, I think Notch might make them only pick up blocks to use as a weapon to attack with, but that is just my thought and I have no idea if he'd actually do that.
It's a good idea, but it won't help preserve the environment, unless you constantly place said repelents everywhere as you explore, which isn't as much of a challenge as it is a chore.
If removing blocks added anything, anything, I'd be ok with the repelent idea, but so far, I fail to see what good this ability is and why we should even try to preserve it.
The only solution I see, for the game (not me, I solutionised it already), is to have enderman be more aggressive and remove blocks solely in order to get to the player and kill him. That way, it'd function much like the creeper and everyone would be fine with this. Enderman might actually become scary, a monster with a purpose, instead of an autistic mob with a fascination for vandalism.
Well, considering the fact that Mob traps can be considered a gross way of cheating in this game (because you're keeping yourself completely out of harms way, which may not be what Notch intended), maybe Mojang intended for the mob traps to be rendered useless. Just a thought, because the game now (and in the future) features new elements that changes the paradigm.
We already stated that it wasn't cheating because cheating requires the following:
- violating rules towards a set goal
To create "grinders", no rules need be violated. Everything I used for mine is legitimate, no hacking, nothing. Not even the ladder "bug", and no lava either. I used gravity, pistons, water, and darkness. All of which are part of the game, none of which is a hack, not even a bug exploit.
With your logic, using diamond tools is cheating. Using a pickaxe to dig rock is a gross way of cheating because it's so much faster than using your fist. A "grinder" is nothing more than a sophisticated tool like any other tool. The only difference is that when you make a diamond pickaxe, it requires a few clicks, and when making a grinder, it requires hours of work. Doing something safely (which it isn't, by the way, I died in my own traps more than once) is not akin to cheating; it's just as smart as fighting in a way that keeps you unhurt (such as moving in all the right ways, hiding behind a tree, etc).
all my mate does in our server is build mob towers that kill by piston block crushing. and i killed myself in there, so they do kill.
you need to set them on a clock so they push 2 sets of blocks towards each other essentially turning 2 air blocks into stone. then release and loop that as a circuit so they open and close ever second or two. most of the ones he makes have a wall about 10 blocks long and 2 high on each side, the water feeds the mobs in and they get crushed to death!!. the current one he is on is about 40 blocks long because theres too many mobs for the current size 'piston crush death machine' it also means no items are lost which sometimes happened with those lava/ladder style traps.
Lol I only signed up to tell you this
as for on topic, endor man is a bit annoying for me but i'm not a big mechanism builder so haven't felt the pain of having my circuits ripped up!
I appreciate the effort of signing up just to tell me this! Would you happen to have pictures of your death factory?
1) As you should, since this is about the only "positive" addition to the game: schadenfreude. Not a very noble reason to appreciate that mob.
2) Sorry to ruin your schadenfreude, but we have found several ways of countering the enderman's ability to remove blocks: we now have a mod to make him unable to pick up blocks, and we also have the possibility to make the ceiling lower so he can't spawn.
You can now resume fapping to YouTube videos of people accidentally hurting themselves.
Lastly, hating ingenuity and creativity and learning the game's mechanics to create sophisticated tools, if Notch and company hate that, they're clearly on the wrong track.
I am new here, well, I just played Minecraft for some weeks. While I am making my favorite creation---My train station. I forget to pause my game and I got to toilet....
After that I saw a "Gameover" screen, I re-spawned and I saw my station is completely ruined...
Hence why I refer to them only as griefers until this is changed. The lulz-kiddies seem to love them though. I wonder why. I guess that is how they get their jollies because they don't get enough attention elsewhere.
We should have a player-friendly block that can detect any endermen spawned in a chunk or a specific area. We should also have some tools to anti-endermen, moreover, endermen shall only work when they're in your chunk, and you will be warned when one of them start removing (griefing).
It would require an Enderpearl on top and then perhaps a fence post or red stone torch beneath in the crafting table. It would then create a torch/totem that could be placed, say with a reach of 15 blocks in any direction, and glows say green when active. Thus the torch/totem wouldn't even have to be in the mob grinder if it's small enough. Or the torch/totem could just disable them from picking up block within the area of influence. It would solve the problem. However, I think Notch might make them only pick up blocks to use as a weapon to attack with, but that is just my thought and I have no idea if he'd actually do that.
While these ideas would prevent the endermen from spawning, it is a little too similar to placing torches everywhere in order to prevent your landscape from looking something like this:
I prefer PrincessRaiden's later idea to have them "only pick up blocks to use as a weapon to attack with" or maybe to try to bust down a wall to get to you... not to arbitrarily rip everything apart even when you are not around.
This NPC exists, very often, outside of the immediate eye-sight of the player. While spelunking in a mine shaft, while working on our improving your home, while out boating around the endermen are all around you arbitrarily picking up a block of whatever then arbitrarily placing it somewhere else. To what end? To no end. They might pull out the trunk of a tree. They might pull up a bit of sand on a coastline causing the water to flow into that empty hole as opposed to looking like a smooth shoreline. They could be ripping apart the roof to your giant cathedral because you don't have that light up by 500 torches because you wanted it to look true to form.
[/snip/]
What was the point of Mojang/Notch creating biomes and pristine landscapes if some NPC is going to come around and pit the whole thing up?
build a moat- sure, just completely redesign the already carefully designed creation. moats are barely even noticeable. I'm sure they would make a discreet and totally appropriate addition to any property
Well, considering the fact that Mob traps can be considered a gross way of cheating in this game (because you're keeping yourself completely out of harms way, which may not be what Notch intended), maybe Mojang intended for the mob traps to be rendered useless. Just a thought, because the game now (and in the future) features new elements that changes the paradigm.
You seem to be rather torn up about this "gross way of cheating", Malavok. How does another user's game play affect you?
While I do not use mob grinders, I respect that other people play this game with different styles. If that is what is fun for them, so be it.
If Mojang truly had a problem with mob traps, they could have done something without adding a griefer to the game to destroy the beautiful biomes and everyone's buildings.
mob grinder? you deserve what you get- no. if you go through the trouble of designing and building a fully functional mob grinder you should be rewarded for your ingenuity, as you are holding true with the spirit of minecraft as an innovator of block building. you should not be forced to rebuild parts of it every day just because someone decided to add a poorly designed mob to the game.
Enderman's most liked attribute is his ability to ruin players' structures; this ability is only liked by players who don't have such structures, but really get a kick out of knowing others' efforts are being griefed.
Enderman removing blocks = at best a minor amusement (the epic fun of seeing a block where you didn't place it or where it wasn't generated), and at worst a major nuisance which takes a far bigger role than it was originally designed to be (Notch didn't think of enderman as something that would entirely redefine the game and how we play it; the point wasn't to force players who care about their creations, and natural landscape, to suddenly have to cover everything with either torches or water.
The point wasn't to attack "grinders" either because that could have been done in other, simpler ways (such as removing the drops from mobs not killed by the player directly - even though that can be countered still, it'd at least show intent from the programmers, who, instead, merely did that for the XP orbs, proving that they could have done it with regular drops, but didn't).
Pro-enderman's ability to pick up blocks are yet to show what they like about it apart from their negative effects on some of us. Prove that there is more to it than schadenfreude, if you can.
i dont have any screenshots of said mobtrap, but i will get some, its a pretty standard tower with water for spawning and channelling mobs. some die of falling the others follow water flow into piston crusher
overhead view of pistons:
X = sandstone(or block of somesort)
> = piston pushes right
< = piston pushes left
A = air
using a redstone wire feed that goes from the pistons to a looped rail track (9 by 9) which has a dector rail and on the opposite side a powered rail, so the cart constantly goes round and round triggering the detector rail which pulses the pistons with power so they open and close over and over.
im using my bed lots to prevent endorman getting too much nighttime to move blocks, however cant do that in SMP lol
Thanks for that! What's directly below the piston area? I mean, to collect the items?
If you want to get rid of the endermen picking up blocks, use the mod; it's easy! All you need is in the OP, at the bottom.
I know the conversation has pretty much winded down, but I figured I'd offer an idea of how the Enderman could act.
The premise for Enderman that I heard was a mysterious creature with an unknown purpose that you don't want to catch the eyes of. If you do catch eyes you don't want to look away. A friend of mine went on about how Notch wanted to add psychological horror to the game using Enderman.
The execution is... well aside from the griefing... pretty cute. A stupid child randomly moving blocks as if it's trying to build but doesn't know how and throws a tantrum if you get in its way. It's not scary and not mysterious.
So how do we fix it? By reprogramming it. Give it purpose. Instead of a random pickup and random placement code make it actually do something. Instead of grabbing any block, why not make it seek out specific types of blocks? Give it something to build, or multiple things to build. With a purpose it won't be an NPC griefer but instead something mysterious.
I know this will require more work on their part, but that's part of designing a game. Heck, perhaps they could tie the Enderman's actions in with stuff in the Nether making them even more mysterious and helping tie the two worlds together?
As for player interaction: They should be able to pick up player lain blocks under certain conditions. For example: Only if it has nothing else placed on top (so it would only go after the roof and only if the roof was made of material it needs). If the player strikes first or catches their eye or breaks one of their structures while in their presence they should relentlessly chase the player and move any block to get to them. They also should be stronger 'cause otherwise it'll just be "oh an Enderman. Let's get an Enderpearl!"
That's my idea on how to make the Enderman more interesting and less of a greifer. Perhaps it's already been thought of, but I don't know. Don't have time to read all the pages in this thread.
And if your creation is an entire ADV map? Or a entire landscape? And what if you don't want to have a moat ruining your creation?
These cookie cutter answers don't cut it when it comes down to fixing these issues.
Add to that the fact they grief (thing that most of the smp players hate), but because they are mobs it should be ok? Every time i get griefed by an enderman, it's like Notch himself is griefing me. Oh and while i'm at it, someone said he liked to repair his buildings over and over, because that was "survival", so if he hosts a server it would be my pleasure to grief him over and over, enderman style.
They ruin mobtraps (and if you can't understand why some people use mobtraps, I think you either build little 4x4 houses and that's all, or only want to kill mobs by hand (in which case you should play games like dead island instead of minecraft), or use mods such as too many items or invedit.)
They also ruin the landscape, i'm sick tired of these floating trees all around my map, because some enderman wanted to grab that piece of wood. It's UGLY, pointless and don't tell me I have to light up all forest/swamp biomes please.
I'm just glad we have a nice modding community to make up for Notch mistakes.
May the force be without you.
Are people seriously still arguing about whether or not Endermen move player placed blocks? There are like a million videos showing that they do... how is this still up for debate?
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Don't worry, they don't. We've already redesigned them ender-proofed.
My signature is my friend. It is my thoughts. I must master it as I must master minecraft.
And we figured out how to do it without obsidian :wink.gif:
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Actually, I don't know that. I've heard it often, but have never seen evidence of this. Moreover, XP doesn't drop from mobs killed in grinders, which means they could have done the same for regular drops, but chose not to, which means they don't "hate" grinders. If they did, why not cancel regular drops as well?
Lastly, hating ingenuity and creativity and learning the game's mechanics to create sophisticated tools, if Notch and company hate that, they're clearly on the wrong track. Sorry to break the news to you, but pistons, redstone, and all the stuff that allows you to create machines and systems, so far, their best use and most rewarding is to create "grinders".
Damn, these are epic! Just wait until someone calls you "lazy" because you don't hunt for the stuff... Congrats on the epicness! I'd not mind seeing more pictures if you feel like it.
I think dividing the game into different aspects with loose connections between them is a bad idea. The strong point of Minecraft is its freedom. At any second, I can decide to go hunting even though I built tons of structures. Or I can go exploring, or mining. Remove any of these possibilities and the game will be less rich for it.
How cool is it actually? If you just explore and fight, you'd see randomly placed blocks. Cool? I fail to see how.
It's a good idea, but it won't help preserve the environment, unless you constantly place said repelents everywhere as you explore, which isn't as much of a challenge as it is a chore.
If removing blocks added anything, anything, I'd be ok with the repelent idea, but so far, I fail to see what good this ability is and why we should even try to preserve it.
The only solution I see, for the game (not me, I solutionised it already), is to have enderman be more aggressive and remove blocks solely in order to get to the player and kill him. That way, it'd function much like the creeper and everyone would be fine with this. Enderman might actually become scary, a monster with a purpose, instead of an autistic mob with a fascination for vandalism.
We already stated that it wasn't cheating because cheating requires the following:
- violating rules towards a set goal
To create "grinders", no rules need be violated. Everything I used for mine is legitimate, no hacking, nothing. Not even the ladder "bug", and no lava either. I used gravity, pistons, water, and darkness. All of which are part of the game, none of which is a hack, not even a bug exploit.
With your logic, using diamond tools is cheating. Using a pickaxe to dig rock is a gross way of cheating because it's so much faster than using your fist. A "grinder" is nothing more than a sophisticated tool like any other tool. The only difference is that when you make a diamond pickaxe, it requires a few clicks, and when making a grinder, it requires hours of work. Doing something safely (which it isn't, by the way, I died in my own traps more than once) is not akin to cheating; it's just as smart as fighting in a way that keeps you unhurt (such as moving in all the right ways, hiding behind a tree, etc).
I appreciate the effort of signing up just to tell me this! Would you happen to have pictures of your death factory?
1) As you should, since this is about the only "positive" addition to the game: schadenfreude. Not a very noble reason to appreciate that mob.
2) Sorry to ruin your schadenfreude, but we have found several ways of countering the enderman's ability to remove blocks: we now have a mod to make him unable to pick up blocks, and we also have the possibility to make the ceiling lower so he can't spawn.
You can now resume fapping to YouTube videos of people accidentally hurting themselves.
Can you prove this, Isensea? or are you just spouting your own feelings as scripture?
I have something to back up Mojang feeling otherwise:
Don't worry about mob grinders - Jeb
Isensea, we await your verification.
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Well said, Rikaelus and RedRainn.
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Hence why I refer to them only as griefers until this is changed. The lulz-kiddies seem to love them though. I wonder why. I guess that is how they get their jollies because they don't get enough attention elsewhere.
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While these ideas would prevent the endermen from spawning, it is a little too similar to placing torches everywhere in order to prevent your landscape from looking something like this:
I prefer PrincessRaiden's later idea to have them "only pick up blocks to use as a weapon to attack with" or maybe to try to bust down a wall to get to you... not to arbitrarily rip everything apart even when you are not around.
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No, Son0fgrim, that is not how this works. In case you missed it: and:
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You seem to be rather torn up about this "gross way of cheating", Malavok. How does another user's game play affect you?
While I do not use mob grinders, I respect that other people play this game with different styles. If that is what is fun for them, so be it.
If Mojang truly had a problem with mob traps, they could have done something without adding a griefer to the game to destroy the beautiful biomes and everyone's buildings.
Also:
Endermen are griefers coded into the game.
Enderman's most liked attribute is his ability to ruin players' structures; this ability is only liked by players who don't have such structures, but really get a kick out of knowing others' efforts are being griefed.
Enderman removing blocks = at best a minor amusement (the epic fun of seeing a block where you didn't place it or where it wasn't generated), and at worst a major nuisance which takes a far bigger role than it was originally designed to be (Notch didn't think of enderman as something that would entirely redefine the game and how we play it; the point wasn't to force players who care about their creations, and natural landscape, to suddenly have to cover everything with either torches or water.
The point wasn't to attack "grinders" either because that could have been done in other, simpler ways (such as removing the drops from mobs not killed by the player directly - even though that can be countered still, it'd at least show intent from the programmers, who, instead, merely did that for the XP orbs, proving that they could have done it with regular drops, but didn't).
Pro-enderman's ability to pick up blocks are yet to show what they like about it apart from their negative effects on some of us. Prove that there is more to it than schadenfreude, if you can.
The real question, in this thread, now, is whether or not we want our landscapes to look like this, and worse, given enough time.
Everything we found a solution for, or close to it, but this, short of using the mod, will remain.
Thanks for that! What's directly below the piston area? I mean, to collect the items?
If you want to get rid of the endermen picking up blocks, use the mod; it's easy! All you need is in the OP, at the bottom.
The premise for Enderman that I heard was a mysterious creature with an unknown purpose that you don't want to catch the eyes of. If you do catch eyes you don't want to look away. A friend of mine went on about how Notch wanted to add psychological horror to the game using Enderman.
The execution is... well aside from the griefing... pretty cute. A stupid child randomly moving blocks as if it's trying to build but doesn't know how and throws a tantrum if you get in its way. It's not scary and not mysterious.
So how do we fix it? By reprogramming it. Give it purpose. Instead of a random pickup and random placement code make it actually do something. Instead of grabbing any block, why not make it seek out specific types of blocks? Give it something to build, or multiple things to build. With a purpose it won't be an NPC griefer but instead something mysterious.
I know this will require more work on their part, but that's part of designing a game. Heck, perhaps they could tie the Enderman's actions in with stuff in the Nether making them even more mysterious and helping tie the two worlds together?
As for player interaction: They should be able to pick up player lain blocks under certain conditions. For example: Only if it has nothing else placed on top (so it would only go after the roof and only if the roof was made of material it needs). If the player strikes first or catches their eye or breaks one of their structures while in their presence they should relentlessly chase the player and move any block to get to them. They also should be stronger 'cause otherwise it'll just be "oh an Enderman. Let's get an Enderpearl!"
That's my idea on how to make the Enderman more interesting and less of a greifer. Perhaps it's already been thought of, but I don't know. Don't have time to read all the pages in this thread.
Have you read the thread or even the first post? No.
Have we addressed this issue a million times already and found far better solutions than this?? Yes.