I don't see why they should make a table and not go the full length and implement a full set of furniture for decoration. Everytime Notch adds one more, it seems like they have to have some form of functionality, when I don't think anyone would mind if they were brought in purely to make houses not appear as empty.
Also keeping in mind that pressure plate tables were introduced on a whim via a tweet to jeb as a last minute addition. There wouldn't be any tables at all if not for Jeb. :sleep.gif:
Adding bonuses for being a table is silly and arbitrary. The sole purpose of a table is to have a flat surface at a convient height. That is it. We can already acheive that. Saying that a table should give a bonus because it is a table is silly and arbitrary. You are trying to justify the function of a table. sourounding your famrland with a fence instead of a wall doesn't give a bonus. It goes completely against the nature of the game to offer an arbitary bonus for a table. And even if it didn't, a bonus for a table is not new functionality.
You've mentioned twice that bonuses for a table are silly and arbitrary. How come experience skills are not silly and arbitrary? How come the addition of a shear wasn't silly and arbitrary? These are in fact bonuses that didn't really need to be added, but they were. Shears for example, give you more wool. Yet without shears, you could still obtain wool but it's not as productive. Same goes with a cake on a table giving more food.
You want one block with a very specific functionality and aethetic. Glass panes and iron bars both offer a wide range of potential creative applications. They are not a single purpose block. Fences as well, esp after 1.7. It offers a wide range of uses, both practical and aethetic. You can fight over a fence a lot better than a 1.5 block high wall. The wide range of fence configurations sees widespread use. They also function as support beams, as torch extensions, as porticulous.
You talked very much about a fence but very little of a glass plane and iron bars. You find them creative, so why isn't a table creative when it's clearly also used for decoration? Who doesn't think that a table will have potential in the game of minecraft? Better yet, who won't use a table if it were to be implemented?
Truth is, this is a very, very, very minor detail that you are blowing out of proportion.
Notch is adding new biomes, they are expanding on the nether, there are new mobs, we now have hunger, leveling is being added... and you are throiwng a fit becuase we can put pressure plates on fence posts, and that is just not good enough for you. Nope, it doesn't matter that you can now have something that looks like a table for decorative purposes, and that any functional purpose you have for a table is already met. If they don't provide you with a block specifically designed for your need, its not a good addition.
It's not minor, if they could put something of such low value into minecraft, I wonder what's next. Also you can say all you want about this new update, but the fact of the matter is that it was released unfinished which is why it got such a bad reputation when compared to any other patch.
You've mentioned twice that bonuses for a table are silly and arbitrary. How come experience skills are not silly and arbitrary? How come the addition of a shear wasn't silly and arbitrary? These are in fact bonuses that didn't really need to be added, but they were. Shears for example, give you more wool. Yet without shears, you could still obtain wool but it's not as productive. Same goes with a cake on a table giving more food.
You seem to be missing the point of "arbitrary" Using shears to get more wool from a sheep is not arbitrary. It is using a tool for its intended purpose. experience points are an abstraction to represent your character learning new skills from the events they experience. Just as a person who has been working at a job for 30 years has more expereince than a person who just a started, and hence has much more advanced skills. However, cakes on tables is arbitrary. A cake should work just as well if it is on a counter, for instance, or any flat surface. A cake on a convient rock works just as well as a cake on a table. All the cake cares about is the flat surface. We make tables so we have a convient flat surface. making a table be a better flat surface is arbitrary. Because the surface of the wood is being supported by discrete legs instead of a solid block, the cake heals you more. How is that not arbitrary?
You talked very much about a fence but very little of a glass plane and iron bars. You find them creative, so why isn't a table creative when it's clearly also used for decoration? Who doesn't think that a table will have potential in the game of minecraft? Better yet, who won't use a table if it were to be implemented?
A table is a single discrete element. Glass panes and iron bars are only potential. The potential to make a window, the potential to make a glass tube, the potential to make a sunroom, the potential to make a jailhouse. They didn't give you a window block, they gave you a block that is useful as a window, as well as other things. A table is just a table. You can place a table. You can place multiple tables to make a bigger table. But its just a table, and all of its functionality can be acheived with normal blocks.
Also, I never said tables shouldn't be implemented. I've said the opposite many times. But a table is not an important addition. It adds very little.
It's not minor, if they could put something of such low value into minecraft, I wonder what's next. Also you can say all you want about this new update, but the fact of the matter is that it was released unfinished which is why it got such a bad reputation when compared to any other patch.
You seriously think tables are major? Really? The game has been held back and horribly crippled because we don't have tables? Adding tables is going to revolutionize the game? They would be a nice addition, I admit, but nothing more. The snow golem is a much more significant change, opening up the possibilty of other craftable mobs. Expanding the nether is a major change, potentially fixing a glaring weak point in the gameplay. Redoing the biome code is a major change, literally altering the landscape of the game. A table... A table is a nice decoration. Period.
And I am fully aware that the update was unfinished. That is the source of most of its flaws. I have been repeately pointing that out. That has nothing to do with the importance of tables.
You seem to be missing the point of "arbitrary" Using shears to get more wool from a sheep is not arbitrary. It is using a tool for its intended purpose. experience points are an abstraction to represent your character learning new skills from the events they experience. Just as a person who has been working at a job for 30 years has more expereince than a person who just a started, and hence has much more advanced skills. However, cakes on tables is arbitrary. A cake should work just as well if it is on a counter, for instance, or any flat surface. A cake on a convient rock works just as well as a cake on a table. All the cake cares about is the flat surface. We make tables so we have a convient flat surface. making a table be a better flat surface is arbitrary. Because the surface of the wood is being supported by discrete legs instead of a solid block, the cake heals you more. How is that not arbitrary?
Experience is arbitrary because it comes from an object, an orb. Has nothing to do with gaining any sort of work experience. Also I can counter your argument about a cake on a table vs anywhere else. Lets talk about what's more sanitary. In addition to that, what about what's more efficient.
A table is a single discrete element. Glass panes and iron bars are only potential. The potential to make a window, the potential to make a glass tube, the potential to make a sunroom, the potential to make a jailhouse. They didn't give you a window block, they gave you a block that is useful as a window, as well as other things. A table is just a table. You can place a table. You can place multiple tables to make a bigger table. But its just a table, and all of its functionality can be acheived with normal blocks.
Tables could be used as a support beam, pillars and such. First we need to add them to actually see the potential that they have. You're just only looking at a table one way and a glass pane in 20 different ways, which isn't fair.
You seriously think tables are major? Really? The game has been held back and horribly crippled because we don't have tables? Adding tables is going to revolutionize the game? They would be a nice addition, I admit, but nothing more. The snow golem is a much more significant change, opening up the possibilty of other craftable mobs. Expanding the nether is a major change, potentially fixing a glaring weak point in the gameplay. Redoing the biome code is a major change, literally altering the landscape of the game. A table... A table is a nice decoration. Period.
Think you're the one who's blowing it out of proportion. I'm just saying it was a messed up move from the developers. If they're going to make a table, they should make it properly and not have it be a workaround. I've never said it would revolutionize the game, or completely cripple it. However I have lost respect from the developers.
By the way, the snow golem is a joke, if you're really trying to convince me that it's a great idea, I'mma have to faceplam.
And I am fully aware that the update was unfinished. That is the source of most of its flaws. I have been repeately pointing that out. That has nothing to do with the importance of tables.
Experience is arbitrary because it comes from an object, an orb. Has nothing to do with gaining any sort of work experience. Also I can counter your argument about a cake on a table vs anywhere else. Lets talk about what's more sanitary. In addition to that, what about what's more efficient.
No, it is an abstraction because it comes in orbs and makes descrete points. It is still representing the expereince you gain from the combat.
And who cares how sanitary the surface is as long as the cake is on a plate? And I don't see how a table is any more efficient. I eat most of my meals in from of a computer, just holding my plate. It works just as well as a table. The mentality that you must eat at a table, or that you get more benefit from doing so, is pointless. Basically, you are asking for a block that will make cake work better. That is pointless. There is no functional reason to add a table, and you are twisting around trying to create one.
Tables could be used as a support beam, pillars and such. First we need to add them to actually see the potential that they have. You're just only looking at a table one way and a glass pane in 20 different ways, which isn't fair.
I'm sure people will find other ways to utilize tables, simply becuase it is another shape to work with. But a glass pane exists to be used in a wide range of circumstances. It is a basic building component. A table, explicitely created to be a table, is not. it is a highly specific block. Useing a pressure plate as a generic wooden surface that can be used in conjuntion with a fence post to create a table is a more generic use, albiet somewhat limited.
Think you're the one who's blowing it out of proportion. I'm just saying it was a messed up move from the developers. If they're going to make a table, they should make it properly and not have it be a workaround. I've never said it would revolutionize the game, or completely cripple it. However I have lost respect from the developers.
They make a 1 line code change, at the direct request of a player, to allow people to legitely do what they where using workarounds to do, thereby inreasing the aesthetic options. You take that as a bad change, and make adding a table to the game to be a big deal. All I've done is say that it is 100% reasonable to make the 1 line code change. You are the one who felt the need to make this thread and insist that it is a bad change.
By the way, the snow golem is a joke, if you're really trying to convince me that it's a great idea, I'mma have to faceplam.
Its not the implementation, it is the possibilities it opens up. Why do people have such a hard time with that concept? Notch specifically said that if people like it, he may add otehr craftable utility mobs. The mere possibility of that has more weight than adding a table.
- Decoration
- Gives a spot for cakes to be placed
- Makes cakes more accessible
- Would make houses look less of a cluster
- Will offer more vision than a regular block
- Would produce less darkness than a regular block
- Could offer bonuses
Possible Table Bonuses
- Tables will be similar to a chest but would instead only hold one item at a time. Any item placed inside the table's inventory will be displayed on top of it. (Aavri)
- Cakes placed on top of a table will replenish extra hunger when eaten. (Skingrad)
My Position: Quit having us make all these workaround tables and give us a craftable table that actually looks nice and does what it's intended to do. I don't want these pressure plate tables in my NPC villages. They don't even look nice and a pressure plate shouldn't belong on top of a fence. Take your time and stop cutting corners developers.
A piston table offers more than what we're getting. So why even bother having pressure plate tables to begin with? We could at least put a cake on a piston unlike a pressure plate table.
Pressure Plate Table
Pros
- Decoration
Cons
- Nothing can be placed directly on top of them
- Unable to stand on them if there is two empty blocks from the ceiling to the table since the fence counts as two whole blocks
- Negates the purpose of a pressure plate, which is meant to be stepped on
- Isn't even a real craft
- Table has holes inbetween each pressure plate when trying to make a larger table
New Table Block
Pros
- Decoration
- Can stand on them if there is two empty blocks from the ceiling to the table
- Cakes and all other blocks can be placed on top of them
- Is an actual craftable block
- Are able to make a large table without having it to look disfigured
Cons
Would have no cons since it would be designed as intended by the developers.
Cons might be it's extra work for something mostly decorative. Though If I were them I'd just modify the fence code to mimic the connecting behavior and modify the clip level to 1.0 (fences clip to 1.5 making it so you can't jump them normally) and modify the models.
EDIT: I also think some activities should require a table and chair, things like writing a book, painting custom paintings, etc.
There is no functional reason to add a table, and you are twisting around trying to create one.
There is, you're ignoring it and making a big ruckus about it. Stating what is abstract and arbitrary. Honestly who gives a crap, doubt any other person thinks of such ludicrous thoughts inside of a video game. Accept the idea of bonus if you want a value for tables, if not then move on. I personal would like tables with or without a bonus. This game isn't made in a specific way, it's just Notch's ideas in a computer. Surprised how deep people go into such obvious things. Besides, most blocks don't have any function.
I'm sure people will find other ways to utilize tables, simply becuase it is another shape to work with. But a glass pane exists to be used in a wide range of circumstances. It is a basic building component. A table, explicitely created to be a table, is not. it is a highly specific block. Useing a pressure plate as a generic wooden surface that can be used in conjuntion with a fence post to create a table is a more generic use, albiet somewhat limited.
Opinion, opinion, and opinion. The table we have now gives us very little to do with. Maybe if we had a better table we'd be able to do more with it.
They make a 1 line code change, at the direct request of a player, to allow people to legitely do what they where using workarounds to do, thereby inreasing the aesthetic options. You take that as a bad change, and make adding a table to the game to be a big deal. All I've done is say that it is 100% reasonable to make the 1 line code change. You are the one who felt the need to make this thread and insist that it is a bad change.
So lets all take the easy way out. Yeah, this game will come along great with that perspective. Probably the same reason why 1.8 was released so early.
Its not the implementation, it is the possibilities it opens up. Why do people have such a hard time with that concept? Notch specifically said that if people like it, he may add otehr craftable utility mobs. The mere possibility of that has more weight than adding a table.
It's just a stupid idea, sorry. I'm sure all fans will applaud it and all people who respect a common theme will not. What bothers me is that Notch could get bored and make a retarded craftable and useless mob, but he's unable to introduce a more improved table.
So lets all take the easy way out. Yeah, this game will come along great with that perspective. Probably the same reason why 1.8 was released so early.
This is exactly the problem.
There are 3 options.
1. Don't add tables. Effort: 0 Benefit: none
2. Add pressure plate tables. Effort: miniscule Benefit: low
3. Add real tables. Effort: medium Benefit: medium
option 2 is by far the most efficient thing to do, esp. in the context where they have a ton of other things they want to do. Somebody specifically requested a minor change, they added it, and you are twisting it around into a huge mistake. The effort to return ratio is great. It is a much better option than not adding it. Efficient =/= lazy, efficient means you get things done. Efficient means you have time to get other things done as well. Efficient means they have time to fix bugs. It is not like they sat down, said "Lets add tables", and decided to add pressure plate tables because it was easier. No. That would be lazy. This is doing the extra work of allowing pressure plate tables even though there was no previous intention of doing so.
He made 1 change. It took a minimum amount of effort. It expands upon what is possible in the game. And you are twisting that into a negative. Give two copies of minecraft, one that allows pressure plate tables and one that doesn't, I would have to say the one that does allow it is the superior version. So why are you making it out like this change is dragging minecraft back to the stone age?
Honestly the only reason people build these workarounds is not because they wanna be creative, but rather that they want these options but are unable to have them because they're not physically implemented into the game. Take beds for example, now they're finally added and no one even attempts to make those lame workarounds anymore.
Even if what your sayings is true, then why can't we have everything remain a block? Fences, doors, gates, all in which could be made out of blocks. That's considered making complicated structures out of simple components, right? But yet, those complicated structures still remain in the game and more get added in every patch.
Fences, doors, gates, and beds all fulfill functions that cannot be easily implemented with blocks. With the exception of beds, all of these special objects are extremely versatile, whereas a single table block is not. There are more intelligent solutions for implementing tables. One of which is the pressure plate idea, but the idea could use some tweaking.
This is exactly the problem.
There are 3 options.
1. Don't add tables. Effort: 0 Benefit: none
2. Add pressure plate tables. Effort: miniscule Benefit: low
3. Add real tables. Effort: medium Benefit: medium
option 2 is by far the most efficient thing to do, esp. in the context where they have a ton of other things they want to do. Somebody specifically requested a minor change, they added it, and you are twisting it around into a huge mistake. The effort to return ratio is great. It is a much better option than not adding it. Efficient =/= lazy, efficient means you get things done. Efficient means you have time to get other things done as well. Efficient means they have time to fix bugs. It is not like they sat down, said "Lets add tables", and decided to add pressure plate tables because it was easier. No. That would be lazy. This is doing the extra work of allowing pressure plate tables even though there was no previous intention of doing so.
He made 1 change. It took a minimum amount of effort. It expands upon what is possible in the game. And you are twisting that into a negative. Give two copies of minecraft, one that allows pressure plate tables and one that doesn't, I would have to say the one that does allow it is the superior version. So why are you making it out like this change is dragging minecraft back to the stone age?
Option 4 - fail miserably at adding tables resulting in death.
then how would you guys feel wanting tables? huh?!
dude... they're tables. I'm pretty sure Notch can handle it lmao, and its just a suggestion on a forum. The workarounds wouldn't exist without a need, and in the end who cares? obviously at some point the games getting cosmetics, are you going to write notch hate mail for doing it while servers still spam can't keep up? vote and gtfo :wink.gif:
Agreed. It makes me quite angry to see that Mojang does a stupid looking work around. It would take five minutes to throw the Fancy-Pack Mod into the game files, but no. They need an even easier solution.
I'm not trying to hate on Mojang or anything, but they could listen to the community a bit more.
First of all you go get the legal work done to add the mod into the game. Its not just a simple, Hello can we have your mod?
And for this point-less thread, don't you think if he wanted to add tables that can be crafted to Mc he would've? You could just go through the trouble of coding tables into your own game as a mod if you are not happy with what Notch has given you. Be happy you got the other awesome stuff, cause you couldn't have had this game to start with. So quit your belly-aching about a game that is not even finished, and enjoy what you've got. You could be dead.
Also keeping in mind that pressure plate tables were introduced on a whim via a tweet to jeb as a last minute addition. There wouldn't be any tables at all if not for Jeb. :sleep.gif:
You've mentioned twice that bonuses for a table are silly and arbitrary. How come experience skills are not silly and arbitrary? How come the addition of a shear wasn't silly and arbitrary? These are in fact bonuses that didn't really need to be added, but they were. Shears for example, give you more wool. Yet without shears, you could still obtain wool but it's not as productive. Same goes with a cake on a table giving more food.
You talked very much about a fence but very little of a glass plane and iron bars. You find them creative, so why isn't a table creative when it's clearly also used for decoration? Who doesn't think that a table will have potential in the game of minecraft? Better yet, who won't use a table if it were to be implemented?
It's not minor, if they could put something of such low value into minecraft, I wonder what's next. Also you can say all you want about this new update, but the fact of the matter is that it was released unfinished which is why it got such a bad reputation when compared to any other patch.
You seem to be missing the point of "arbitrary" Using shears to get more wool from a sheep is not arbitrary. It is using a tool for its intended purpose. experience points are an abstraction to represent your character learning new skills from the events they experience. Just as a person who has been working at a job for 30 years has more expereince than a person who just a started, and hence has much more advanced skills. However, cakes on tables is arbitrary. A cake should work just as well if it is on a counter, for instance, or any flat surface. A cake on a convient rock works just as well as a cake on a table. All the cake cares about is the flat surface. We make tables so we have a convient flat surface. making a table be a better flat surface is arbitrary. Because the surface of the wood is being supported by discrete legs instead of a solid block, the cake heals you more. How is that not arbitrary?
A table is a single discrete element. Glass panes and iron bars are only potential. The potential to make a window, the potential to make a glass tube, the potential to make a sunroom, the potential to make a jailhouse. They didn't give you a window block, they gave you a block that is useful as a window, as well as other things. A table is just a table. You can place a table. You can place multiple tables to make a bigger table. But its just a table, and all of its functionality can be acheived with normal blocks.
Also, I never said tables shouldn't be implemented. I've said the opposite many times. But a table is not an important addition. It adds very little.
You seriously think tables are major? Really? The game has been held back and horribly crippled because we don't have tables? Adding tables is going to revolutionize the game? They would be a nice addition, I admit, but nothing more. The snow golem is a much more significant change, opening up the possibilty of other craftable mobs. Expanding the nether is a major change, potentially fixing a glaring weak point in the gameplay. Redoing the biome code is a major change, literally altering the landscape of the game. A table... A table is a nice decoration. Period.
And I am fully aware that the update was unfinished. That is the source of most of its flaws. I have been repeately pointing that out. That has nothing to do with the importance of tables.
Experience is arbitrary because it comes from an object, an orb. Has nothing to do with gaining any sort of work experience. Also I can counter your argument about a cake on a table vs anywhere else. Lets talk about what's more sanitary. In addition to that, what about what's more efficient.
Tables could be used as a support beam, pillars and such. First we need to add them to actually see the potential that they have. You're just only looking at a table one way and a glass pane in 20 different ways, which isn't fair.
Think you're the one who's blowing it out of proportion. I'm just saying it was a messed up move from the developers. If they're going to make a table, they should make it properly and not have it be a workaround. I've never said it would revolutionize the game, or completely cripple it. However I have lost respect from the developers.
By the way, the snow golem is a joke, if you're really trying to convince me that it's a great idea, I'mma have to faceplam.
You brought it up.
No, it is an abstraction because it comes in orbs and makes descrete points. It is still representing the expereince you gain from the combat.
And who cares how sanitary the surface is as long as the cake is on a plate? And I don't see how a table is any more efficient. I eat most of my meals in from of a computer, just holding my plate. It works just as well as a table. The mentality that you must eat at a table, or that you get more benefit from doing so, is pointless. Basically, you are asking for a block that will make cake work better. That is pointless. There is no functional reason to add a table, and you are twisting around trying to create one.
I'm sure people will find other ways to utilize tables, simply becuase it is another shape to work with. But a glass pane exists to be used in a wide range of circumstances. It is a basic building component. A table, explicitely created to be a table, is not. it is a highly specific block. Useing a pressure plate as a generic wooden surface that can be used in conjuntion with a fence post to create a table is a more generic use, albiet somewhat limited.
They make a 1 line code change, at the direct request of a player, to allow people to legitely do what they where using workarounds to do, thereby inreasing the aesthetic options. You take that as a bad change, and make adding a table to the game to be a big deal. All I've done is say that it is 100% reasonable to make the 1 line code change. You are the one who felt the need to make this thread and insist that it is a bad change.
Its not the implementation, it is the possibilities it opens up. Why do people have such a hard time with that concept? Notch specifically said that if people like it, he may add otehr craftable utility mobs. The mere possibility of that has more weight than adding a table.
Cons might be it's extra work for something mostly decorative. Though If I were them I'd just modify the fence code to mimic the connecting behavior and modify the clip level to 1.0 (fences clip to 1.5 making it so you can't jump them normally) and modify the models.
EDIT: I also think some activities should require a table and chair, things like writing a book, painting custom paintings, etc.
There is, you're ignoring it and making a big ruckus about it. Stating what is abstract and arbitrary. Honestly who gives a crap, doubt any other person thinks of such ludicrous thoughts inside of a video game. Accept the idea of bonus if you want a value for tables, if not then move on. I personal would like tables with or without a bonus. This game isn't made in a specific way, it's just Notch's ideas in a computer. Surprised how deep people go into such obvious things. Besides, most blocks don't have any function.
Opinion, opinion, and opinion. The table we have now gives us very little to do with. Maybe if we had a better table we'd be able to do more with it.
So lets all take the easy way out. Yeah, this game will come along great with that perspective. Probably the same reason why 1.8 was released so early.
It's just a stupid idea, sorry. I'm sure all fans will applaud it and all people who respect a common theme will not. What bothers me is that Notch could get bored and make a retarded craftable and useless mob, but he's unable to introduce a more improved table.
This is exactly the problem.
There are 3 options.
1. Don't add tables. Effort: 0 Benefit: none
2. Add pressure plate tables. Effort: miniscule Benefit: low
3. Add real tables. Effort: medium Benefit: medium
option 2 is by far the most efficient thing to do, esp. in the context where they have a ton of other things they want to do. Somebody specifically requested a minor change, they added it, and you are twisting it around into a huge mistake. The effort to return ratio is great. It is a much better option than not adding it. Efficient =/= lazy, efficient means you get things done. Efficient means you have time to get other things done as well. Efficient means they have time to fix bugs. It is not like they sat down, said "Lets add tables", and decided to add pressure plate tables because it was easier. No. That would be lazy. This is doing the extra work of allowing pressure plate tables even though there was no previous intention of doing so.
He made 1 change. It took a minimum amount of effort. It expands upon what is possible in the game. And you are twisting that into a negative. Give two copies of minecraft, one that allows pressure plate tables and one that doesn't, I would have to say the one that does allow it is the superior version. So why are you making it out like this change is dragging minecraft back to the stone age?
I did, *****. :|
Fences, doors, gates, and beds all fulfill functions that cannot be easily implemented with blocks. With the exception of beds, all of these special objects are extremely versatile, whereas a single table block is not. There are more intelligent solutions for implementing tables. One of which is the pressure plate idea, but the idea could use some tweaking.
Option 4 - fail miserably at adding tables resulting in death.
then how would you guys feel wanting tables? huh?!
dude... they're tables. I'm pretty sure Notch can handle it lmao, and its just a suggestion on a forum. The workarounds wouldn't exist without a need, and in the end who cares? obviously at some point the games getting cosmetics, are you going to write notch hate mail for doing it while servers still spam can't keep up? vote and gtfo :wink.gif:
First of all you go get the legal work done to add the mod into the game. Its not just a simple, Hello can we have your mod?
And for this point-less thread, don't you think if he wanted to add tables that can be crafted to Mc he would've? You could just go through the trouble of coding tables into your own game as a mod if you are not happy with what Notch has given you. Be happy you got the other awesome stuff, cause you couldn't have had this game to start with. So quit your belly-aching about a game that is not even finished, and enjoy what you've got. You could be dead.