Im criticizing them on their priorities not their lack or originality.
@Bob if there was no infiniminer there would be no minecraft ETC ETC
Your OP was about everything they added being done already. And what makes you think that their priorities are all screwy? As far as I can tell, they are working on the features that they and the community want most.
Also, remember that the game is in Beta. It. Is. Not. Finished. If I were him, I would not add any support at all until the game is done! He is going to make the source code FREE! For Notch's sake, let the game be finished before you whine about it not being able to be messed around with easily enough!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Intelligence is not one and the same with knowledge.
I really, really despise the idea that the developers should stop making the game they want to make, following their vision of the game, becuase modders duplicate some of the work. I'm sure a fair handful of those mods exist because mojang has been talking about adding them. Disparate modders do not have a unified goal. They add individual features that they work on only in relation to their own little universe. You can't just throw all of them together and expect a functional result, technical problems aside. The gameplay would be a complete mess. Few mods are balanced, even on their own, and that balance will get further skewed with every mod you add.
Even when mods duplicate apparantly identical funcionality, they end up doing it much differently than mojang would. Take pistons for instance. Mojang's pistons were designed to do less than the original mod, and are made with a much cheaper recipie. I find the pistons in game to be much better balanced and fit in with the game much better than the mod does.
You can find mods for a lot of these featurs because they are changes that the game could use, and other people have recognized that. There are far more mods that do not expand the game in a nice way. Saying that all future updates should just be mods means every individual will ahve to find, out of the sea of mods, the few that they want.
People should not have to mod the game to get it to the intended state. Imagine if you bought starcraft II, then had to go and download 3rd party mods to get all of the buildings, missions, and upgrades that are meant to be in the game. That doesn't make sense. You create a game to its own design requirements. If modders feel like creating a variant based off of it, it should be just that: a variant, not the rest of the game.
The other aspect you are missing is that mojang has to maintain the engine as a whole, fix bugs, etc, whilst modders are just throwing new content on it. There are a few exceptions to this, but mojang has not been focused on adding new content. They have been establishing a framework. Biomes are a framework, not a complete aspect to the game. In fact, they are gettign a rework at the framework level since it was decided their current framework was not adequate. The advanture update represents a shift to where they are more focused on content, and are getting around to fleshing out the game.
Imagine if notch was working on a painting. His progress is visible to all, and his starting strokes captured peoples interest. He continues to paint the picture, and draws more and more attention. Other artists start studying his work, and create their own varaitions. Some of these are also widely acclaimed. Now you come along, look at notch's work, look at the other artist's works, and tell notch "You are too slow. Stop working on it. i want that guy's sky, I like how that girl does shading, these people were really clever with the added bunnies in the background. Together that content finishes your painting, so we'll just use that instead". I know its a rough analagy, but that is what you are doing. You are barging in on a widely acclaimed peice of work, telling the creator he is not good enough, and we should instead cobble together other people's work.
Let mojang make minecraft. Its what they do, and they have been successful at it. If you want to modify the game to suit your own desirs, feel free. But don't be so presumptuos as to suggest mojang should stop developing it.
I'm not saying that mojang should stop development/stop themselves from fleshing out the game/etc
I'm trying to say that they should focus primarily on the games infrastructure/gameplay mechanics/the mod API/ETC
of course Notch and his team are going to add whatever they feel should go into vanilla, but I believe that true satisfaction would come from what you want to have in the game (AKA mods) therefore mods should be focusing on content (There's a mod that balances the effect of custom tools and the breaking speed of custom blocks but I forget what it was called >_<) since with modded content everyone gets to pick and choose what they want in the game.
Minecraft modding is unlike modding in other games, there is a RIDICULOUS amount of Minecraft mods with a HUGE varity and this is mostly due to the fact that minecraft is a very flexible game, this is a game where all of the flavors come from the community and not the developer, with mods anything is possible in your Minecraft and that's why I think Notch should pay a lot more attention to modding (Increasing block IDs, compatibility, simple mod adding/disabling GUI like in some other games)
Your OP was about everything they added being done already. And what makes you think that their priorities are all screwy? As far as I can tell, they are working on the features that they and the community want most.
Also, remember that the game is in Beta. It. Is. Not. Finished. If I were him, I would not add any support at all until the game is done! He is going to make the source code FREE! For Notch's sake, let the game be finished before you whine about it not being able to be messed around with easily enough!
Ya I can understand the replies now that I reread the OP :tongue.gif:, although I'll say it again, it wasn't the message I was going for :C
I just wanted to point out that a vast majority of content comes from the modding community.
You say that they're focusing on the features that community wants most, but they aren't, they're focusing on what the game requires to be itself regardless of whether the community has suggested it, it's more like Notch thinking to himself 'what would really fit into this game? What seems to be missing?' and there's quite a few things this can include (mountains, volcanoes, ravines, valleys ETC) but that's just terrain (It's supposed to be realistic right?) but I never recalled the community asking for an Enderman/chargeable bows/other nicknaks and content like more farming and NPC villages seem like a DUH sort of thing to add
Also @Andrew
Lol Macs
Ya I can understand the replies now that I reread the OP :tongue.gif:, although I'll say it again, it wasn't the message I was going for :C
I just wanted to point out that a vast majority of content comes from the modding community.
You say that they're focusing on the features that community wants most, but they aren't, they're focusing on what the game requires to be itself regardless of whether the community has suggested it, it's more like Notch thinking to himself 'what would really fit into this game? What seems to be missing?' and there's quite a few things this can include (mountains, volcanoes, ravines, valleys ETC) but that's just terrain (It's supposed to be realistic right?) but I never recalled the community asking for an Enderman/chargeable bows/other nicknaks and content like more farming and NPC villages seem like a DUH sort of thing to add
Also @Andrew
Lol Macs
When I talked about what the community wants most, I meant more along the lines of things that the community approves highly of. I still maintain that modding support is not a priority until the game is actually released. Mods are modifications, and I do not think that Notch's highest priority is to make it easier for people to change the game, I think his highest priority is to finish it. And as he put it, "fleshing out the gameplay" is exactly what 1.8 is going to do.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Intelligence is not one and the same with knowledge.
I'm trying to say that they should focus primarily on the games infrastructure/gameplay mechanics/the mod API/ETC
of course Notch and his team are going to add whatever they feel should go into vanilla, but I believe that true satisfaction would come from what you want to have in the game (AKA mods) therefore mods should be focusing on content (There's a mod that balances the effect of custom tools and the breaking speed of custom blocks but I forget what it was called >_<) since with modded content everyone gets to pick and choose what they want in the game.
Minecraft modding is unlike modding in other games, there is a RIDICULOUS amount of Minecraft mods with a HUGE varity and this is mostly due to the fact that minecraft is a very flexible game, this is a game where all of the flavors come from the community and not the developer, with mods anything is possible in your Minecraft and that's why I think Notch should pay a lot more attention to modding (Increasing block IDs, compatibility, simple mod adding/disabling GUI like in some other games)
I assert that there is a lot of value in a cohesive design. The modders aren't even talking to each other, much less marching to the same drummer. You can find a bunch of elements you want in the game, but they are not likely to be balanced against each other. Notch has had a vision of what the game should do for years. I have paid close attention to what he has said about it. He has been slowly working towards that goal, building up the framework he needed. Now that he is taking strong strides what minecraft was intended to be, you are stepping in and say "Hey, cut that out! I can get all the content I want elsewhere, just make an engine!". You should be able to play minecraft without ever needing to touch a mod to get a fulfilling experience. Part of that is adding new content, in a way that is cohesive andplanned out. They can integrate the various game elements with each other in a way that will never happen with mods.
Mojang HAS been primarily focused on the engine and gameplay mechanics. Even the 1.8 update promises a lot of improvement to the engine and the gamepaly mechanics. They incorporated the pistons mod in part becuase it was an engine change that they felt was better supported. Notch is making the terrain height easily modifyable in mods. Now that they are actually adding some fresh content, you are complaining.
I'm all for options in a game. options are great. But they should be optional. You should be able to never once look at the options, take the default, and be greeted with a perfectly functional game. If you have more fun cracking open the options and tweaking them, they are there, but the default should stand on its own. Hence, mojang should develop minecraft to it's fullest potential. The engine and such are part of that developement, but they should not put any extra focus on it just because mods exist. They are offering support for Mods, which is fine and dandy, but they should in no way weaken the core game because of them.
I'd bet you anything that you'll probably receive LESS then what they're promising.
We were supposed to get extinguishable torches (Mods got that), increased mob spawn on lower levels (mods already do that) and more, also the nether was kind of a disappointment, there were 3 blocks and 2 mobs
While the aether has over 20 blocks and 10 mobs
uhhh ya.
@ the Y U NO ANY BETTER GUY
If I started modding (In feb when I have time) would everything I say matter all of a sudden?
ACTUALLY no i still wouldn't care much. The Mojang versions have MUCH more features that the mods. By 1.9 we probably won't NEED mods.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't be racist. Be like the panda. They are BLACK, WHITE and ASIAN! Oh. P.S. Youtube is same as MCForums username.
The aether "breaks the feel of the game", if think I'm trolling then you can look up every Aether suggestion thread to add to the game the Aether and/or guns and/or all the bad suggestions.
First of all: No, there wouldnt be a Minecraft without Mojang. Maybe modders would do it better, or maybe not, but they wouldn't come up with that idea if Minecraft wasnt made.
Second: Mojang cant just stop updating because there are already mods that does stuff, there are mods for almost EVERYTHING. There are plenty of pages in the modding section, go check it out.
Third: If Mojang adds alot of stuff, it would be possible to use it with SMP, so not everyone would need that mod with ModloaderMP, also you wouldnt need to add mods, then modloader, Audiomod, SDKs guns, and so on just to add a mod. Its simpler, better, and smarter with updates.
Oh and Java isnt slow, its either your computer that is slow, or you have lots of other stuff opened when you play. I play with max render-distance, fancy graphics and still have 60 FPS (or even more)
EDIT: and the Aether adds alot of block, yes I know that, but alot of them are just replacement for Dirt, grass, stone, and so on
I suppose video games weren't original because it's just combination of computer and tv, and Steve Jobs or some other important Apple person said the iTouch was a combination of computergames, phone, and something else.
I assert that there is a lot of value in a cohesive design. The modders aren't even talking to each other, much less marching to the same drummer. You can find a bunch of elements you want in the game, but they are not likely to be balanced against each other. Notch has had a vision of what the game should do for years. I have paid close attention to what he has said about it. He has been slowly working towards that goal, building up the framework he needed. Now that he is taking strong strides what minecraft was intended to be, you are stepping in and say "Hey, cut that out! I can get all the content I want elsewhere, just make an engine!". You should be able to play minecraft without ever needing to touch a mod to get a fulfilling experience. Part of that is adding new content, in a way that is cohesive andplanned out. They can integrate the various game elements with each other in a way that will never happen with mods.
Mojang HAS been primarily focused on the engine and gameplay mechanics. Even the 1.8 update promises a lot of improvement to the engine and the gamepaly mechanics. They incorporated the pistons mod in part becuase it was an engine change that they felt was better supported. Notch is making the terrain height easily modifyable in mods. Now that they are actually adding some fresh content, you are complaining.
I'm all for options in a game. options are great. But they should be optional. You should be able to never once look at the options, take the default, and be greeted with a perfectly functional game. If you have more fun cracking open the options and tweaking them, they are there, but the default should stand on its own. Hence, mojang should develop minecraft to it's fullest potential. The engine and such are part of that developement, but they should not put any extra focus on it just because mods exist. They are offering support for Mods, which is fine and dandy, but they should in no way weaken the core game because of them.
Yes I said they shouldn't keep adding NEW content, AKA Enderman and all of the things they thought they should add in based on their own opinions, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, it's just that I would prefer that time and effort be put into framework and I get everything else that you're saying.
I don't want Mojang to just stop what they're doing and focus on something else :sleep.gif: I want them to shift their views almost completely onto freamwork and obvious features, not small trinkets.
also@ guy saying Vanilla has more content then mods.
wdf?
also mystify
have you heard of the Yogbox?
Amazopack? (sp)
AMCO?
He has said that after release, he will take a week off and then start working on new content. He is not planning on dumping Minecraft as soon as it is released.
I'd bet you anything that you'll probably receive LESS then what they're promising.
We were supposed to get extinguishable torches (Mods got that), increased mob spawn on lower levels (mods already do that) and more, also the nether was kind of a disappointment, there were 3 blocks and 2 mobs
Pro Tip: They were on a set release date. This time they aren't.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Against all the evil that Hell can conjure, all the wickedness that mankind can produce; We will send unto them... only you."
Colored text indicates in-character statements/actions. Because Forum Games has basically just been a big open RP for a long time now and it's the only place I ever post anymore, when I post at all.
It's like eating food, do you want something from someoen yo udon't know? Or somethign for a proffesional? I want Notch to make Minecraft. This isn't MODcraft ( I do like Mods) But people rely JUST on mods. I hate hearing "OH YEAH THAR IS A MOD FUR DAT." So?? Can't bring Mods into Smp can you?
Your OP was about everything they added being done already. And what makes you think that their priorities are all screwy? As far as I can tell, they are working on the features that they and the community want most.
Also, remember that the game is in Beta. It. Is. Not. Finished. If I were him, I would not add any support at all until the game is done! He is going to make the source code FREE! For Notch's sake, let the game be finished before you whine about it not being able to be messed around with easily enough!
you have some serious issues
also, if you think a modder could have made the game better then why did you buy it?
I'm not saying that mojang should stop development/stop themselves from fleshing out the game/etc
I'm trying to say that they should focus primarily on the games infrastructure/gameplay mechanics/the mod API/ETC
of course Notch and his team are going to add whatever they feel should go into vanilla, but I believe that true satisfaction would come from what you want to have in the game (AKA mods) therefore mods should be focusing on content (There's a mod that balances the effect of custom tools and the breaking speed of custom blocks but I forget what it was called >_<) since with modded content everyone gets to pick and choose what they want in the game.
Minecraft modding is unlike modding in other games, there is a RIDICULOUS amount of Minecraft mods with a HUGE varity and this is mostly due to the fact that minecraft is a very flexible game, this is a game where all of the flavors come from the community and not the developer, with mods anything is possible in your Minecraft and that's why I think Notch should pay a lot more attention to modding (Increasing block IDs, compatibility, simple mod adding/disabling GUI like in some other games)
I hate being a sarcastic person on the internet sometimes.
Click em'!
Ya I can understand the replies now that I reread the OP :tongue.gif:, although I'll say it again, it wasn't the message I was going for :C
I just wanted to point out that a vast majority of content comes from the modding community.
You say that they're focusing on the features that community wants most, but they aren't, they're focusing on what the game requires to be itself regardless of whether the community has suggested it, it's more like Notch thinking to himself 'what would really fit into this game? What seems to be missing?' and there's quite a few things this can include (mountains, volcanoes, ravines, valleys ETC) but that's just terrain (It's supposed to be realistic right?) but I never recalled the community asking for an Enderman/chargeable bows/other nicknaks and content like more farming and NPC villages seem like a DUH sort of thing to add
Also @Andrew
Lol Macs
When I talked about what the community wants most, I meant more along the lines of things that the community approves highly of. I still maintain that modding support is not a priority until the game is actually released. Mods are modifications, and I do not think that Notch's highest priority is to make it easier for people to change the game, I think his highest priority is to finish it. And as he put it, "fleshing out the gameplay" is exactly what 1.8 is going to do.
You said EXACTLY that.
I assert that there is a lot of value in a cohesive design. The modders aren't even talking to each other, much less marching to the same drummer. You can find a bunch of elements you want in the game, but they are not likely to be balanced against each other. Notch has had a vision of what the game should do for years. I have paid close attention to what he has said about it. He has been slowly working towards that goal, building up the framework he needed. Now that he is taking strong strides what minecraft was intended to be, you are stepping in and say "Hey, cut that out! I can get all the content I want elsewhere, just make an engine!". You should be able to play minecraft without ever needing to touch a mod to get a fulfilling experience. Part of that is adding new content, in a way that is cohesive andplanned out. They can integrate the various game elements with each other in a way that will never happen with mods.
Mojang HAS been primarily focused on the engine and gameplay mechanics. Even the 1.8 update promises a lot of improvement to the engine and the gamepaly mechanics. They incorporated the pistons mod in part becuase it was an engine change that they felt was better supported. Notch is making the terrain height easily modifyable in mods. Now that they are actually adding some fresh content, you are complaining.
I'm all for options in a game. options are great. But they should be optional. You should be able to never once look at the options, take the default, and be greeted with a perfectly functional game. If you have more fun cracking open the options and tweaking them, they are there, but the default should stand on its own. Hence, mojang should develop minecraft to it's fullest potential. The engine and such are part of that developement, but they should not put any extra focus on it just because mods exist. They are offering support for Mods, which is fine and dandy, but they should in no way weaken the core game because of them.
ACTUALLY no i still wouldn't care much. The Mojang versions have MUCH more features that the mods. By 1.9 we probably won't NEED mods.
Don't be racist. Be like the panda. They are BLACK, WHITE and ASIAN! Oh. P.S. Youtube is same as MCForums username.
FINALLY someone has the 2 brain cells to figure this out.
+rep for you good sir.
Quality Over Quantity my friend.
Click em'!
Second: Mojang cant just stop updating because there are already mods that does stuff, there are mods for almost EVERYTHING. There are plenty of pages in the modding section, go check it out.
Third: If Mojang adds alot of stuff, it would be possible to use it with SMP, so not everyone would need that mod with ModloaderMP, also you wouldnt need to add mods, then modloader, Audiomod, SDKs guns, and so on just to add a mod. Its simpler, better, and smarter with updates.
Oh and Java isnt slow, its either your computer that is slow, or you have lots of other stuff opened when you play. I play with max render-distance, fancy graphics and still have 60 FPS (or even more)
EDIT: and the Aether adds alot of block, yes I know that, but alot of them are just replacement for Dirt, grass, stone, and so on
Yes I said they shouldn't keep adding NEW content, AKA Enderman and all of the things they thought they should add in based on their own opinions, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, it's just that I would prefer that time and effort be put into framework and I get everything else that you're saying.
I don't want Mojang to just stop what they're doing and focus on something else :sleep.gif: I want them to shift their views almost completely onto freamwork and obvious features, not small trinkets.
also@ guy saying Vanilla has more content then mods.
wdf?
also mystify
have you heard of the Yogbox?
Amazopack? (sp)
AMCO?
THIS. you lose thread creator
Pro Tip: They were on a set release date. This time they aren't.
But seriously, the "it's been done" argument is totally meaningless.