We need the added level of difficulty, or else once you get any diomand its game over and boring.
Why waste an enchant (with horribly broken randomness and exp waste) to do something so basic as moving a block around? You want added difficulty, go fight the enderdragon.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
You've never been able to get all these blocks before.
But now you can! because of silk touch! And yet your still complaining?
I like silk touch because it lets you get all these blocks but also adds progression to get them.
It would be kinda sill if we could mine diamond straight away. People would just be getting stone picks and digging straight down.
And also notch added creative for exactly this purpose! You now can use that to get ANY block you like :biggrin.gif: woo!!! So why not just use that if you want to get any block easily? Or TooManyItems. Dont really care.
And these are pretty insignificant blocks anyway. If you want them THAT hard. Make more glass? Make a dirt trail to where you want for grass. Use pistons to move blocks?
If you want to keep Silk Touch and have it be "magical" of a sort, then make it the only way you can mine "magical" blocks like End Stone. Since there's a potentially limitless number of fake "magical" ores and materials, Silk Touch would still be worth getting.
But not wasted on mundane things which we already know can be obtained using ordinary tools in the ordinary world.
It's sad how something so obvious as how broken the block collecting concept is gets flamed/bashed so hard on this forum. The fanboys here amaze me. I mean hell, we all know it's a "fantasy" game and it "doesn't have to make sense" but there's a line between "Why do creepers exist only to blow you up?" and "Why can't I simply just pick up the damn mycelium block with standard tools?"
It's sad how something so obvious as people having a difference of opinion gets flamed/bashed so hard on this forum by people claiming superiority. The trolls here amaze me. I mean hell, we all know "it's a game" and "you don't have to treat it like a bloody battle" but there is a line between "I disagree and here's why..." and "You are all fanboys and idiots if you have any other logical train of though."
Again even in the changes now you are getting more of your wish, as stairs drop stairs (as they should), but all you can do is pretty much complain about something that isn't even the major problem.
As for why Silk Touch will stay and all blocks won't be removed...
-Glass/Glass Panes - It's fine if it drops, I honestly half agree.
-Diamond, Coal Lapis and Redstone Ores- No, Diamond dropping a full Diamond is kind of the point. Coal, It defeats the purpose if you have to smelt it, Lapis and Redstone (and we'll just hit glow stone here) drop more than one, and they drop a varying amount. Something smelting can't really replicate as is.
-Mycelium & Grass - You don't just pop the square out, it just makes sense for it to come out as dirt.
-Double Slabs- Meh.
-Ice- Ice regrows quickly, thus if it was at first mine able, it would be endless.
-Huge Mushrooms- Drops stuff instead, that was mainly the point. It could work like gravel I guess.
-Bookshelves - Getting 3 books back already is pretty good, I wouldn't complain. All it loses now is wood, so you can really recreate Bookshelves already.
I actually find the silk touch enchantment to be amazing, especially for multiplayer. In games, I always love searching for that illusive treasure, and silk touch does that for me. It's such a reward to achieve it, especially for someone who is always looking for new ways to build things. The blocks only available through this enchant give builders something of a uniqueness in their builds, specifically in vanilla worlds. Gives them a reason to plan out their builds carefully, with rare materials. The idea of making some materials rarer to get than others is already seen in the game, and this just adds another level of rarity.
Not sure what else to say other than having levels of rarity or complexity in games create more goals and achievements for the user to go for. It's just a unique reward for hard work, like it should be. =D
"-Diamond, Coal Lapis and Redstone Ores
Instead of getting the diamond, coal, lapis or redstone directly when you break the block, how about you just get the ore block itself and "craft" it into the final product? This is better anyway, because if you were to really mine these ores, you'd have a big mess of the ore you want mixed in with stone/cobble/crap and you'd have to sort out. So just make an extra step of tossing the ore in a craft window and collecting the ore from it? Simple huh?"
Is more complicated than it is now? We mine redstone ore, we get redstone ore. Simple huh?
A glass window can be moved. A cube made out of glass IRL can not be moved, just broken. Also, IRL you can't actually collect blocks of ice with a pick axe. If there was to be a craftable window, which would be like decorative glass that's droppable, that would be good. But this silk touch allows us to pick things up that makes no sense to pick up. If we can still get ores with pick axes it's fine with me.
No. The only one I agree with is Bookshelves. Want to know why? Bookshelves didn't even used to drop anything until recently. Diamonds, Lapis, and possible Redstone are gems. And as such you wouldn't throw them into an oven to smelt like you would when smelting iron or gold. The ice comes from frozen water, which we get from arctic biomes. We have to chip that out. Ice should melt outside snow biomes, imho.
As for glass... This is the same guy that it took almost a year to figure out shears would be a better method to get wool than to cut the sheep in half. So... No. Deal with silk touch.
"-Diamond, Coal Lapis and Redstone Ores
Instead of getting the diamond, coal, lapis or redstone directly when you break the block, how about you just get the ore block itself and "craft" it into the final product? This is better anyway, because if you were to really mine these ores, you'd have a big mess of the ore you want mixed in with stone/cobble/crap and you'd have to sort out. So just make an extra step of tossing the ore in a craft window and collecting the ore from it? Simple huh?"
Is more complicated than it is now? We mine redstone ore, we get redstone ore. Simple huh?
Actually, most of the people here are misinterpreting what I'm saying because they're going straight to anti-notch-bashing.
I know the system is more complicated, I don't care. I'm not about making the game easier, I'm about making the game more logical, and dare I say "realistic".
But, just because I said the evil buzzword "realistic" this reply I just made will get slammed by 20 people who jump on the "OMG but itz not sposta be reelstic" bandwagon.
I, by no means, want to make minecraft simplier, Hell, I'd love it if crafting was deep and complicated.. I just want it to be deep and complicated in a logical way, not a "Well now I need a special magic pickaxe to gather a basic material like an ice block" sort of way. That's simply stupid.
Also, IRL you can't actually collect blocks of ice with a pick axe.
Whens the last time you smashed a chunk of solid ice off with a knife/saw/pickaxe and it magically turned into water? I'm pretty sure it either A ) Broke into a million small chunks of ice because you used the wrong tools, (MC World: Using the fists, or the wrong tool) or B ) a huge chunk of it broke loose you could barely lift. (MC World: Ice block anyone?) I do agree it should still melt in a non-snow biome. I'm all for that. But it should still be easily collectable. Not a "rare" item, that's silly.
1) Randomized loot quantities are never used when crafting. So with the current game mechanics you couldn't put an item into the crafting grid and get a random amount of a different item back. Thus, as it is currently being suggested, this wouldn't work with redstone and lapis lazuli. (And Glowstone)
2) This would interfere with the Fortune Enchant so much that it would have to be removed. You are pretty much saying take all the blocks the Fortune effects and either make it not work on them, or work in such a way that it could be easily exploited. Do you really want to get rid of half of the 4 tool enchants?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The Sun rises in the North!
Now these points of data make a beautiful line...
If we make blocks like mycelium and bookshelves collectable without Silk Touch, that makes Silk Touch useless. Consider the reprecussions of suddenly making one of the most powerful enchantments nearly useless. That requires tons more balancing and updates.
I like your ideas a lot but silk touch works great and I don't think it should be removed, the enchanting system might need to be improved though.
Agree 90%
I really don't think the op understands that just letting you get those blocks without the silk touch makes the game horribly unbalanced. Well, not really 'horribly' but it does make it unbalanced.
However, I do agree that enchanment system should be improved. Maybe if we just had a way of knowing what enchanments we can buy.
If we make blocks like mycelium and bookshelves collectable without Silk Touch, that makes Silk Touch useless. Consider the reprecussions of suddenly making one of the most powerful enchantments nearly useless. That requires tons more balancing and updates.
that's sort of the point of my post. It is useless and should be removed.
I really don't think the op understands that just letting you get those blocks without the silk touch makes the game horribly unbalanced. Well, not really 'horribly' but it does make it unbalanced.
However, I do agree that enchanment system should be improved. Maybe if we just had a way of knowing what enchanments we can buy.
How does that make the game unbalanced? The only "balance" to this game is the balance we're given. You can't make this game unbalanced you can only change the balance.
Actually, most of the people here are misinterpreting what I'm saying because they're going straight to anti-notch-bashing.
Well, the flamers came because of your provocative title. "SILK TOUCH IS IDIOTIC, AND SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME". This is inflammatory because it is insulting and demanding. It's common sense you are going to make people mad if you do this.
I dare say you provoked them. Your word choice for the title was either poorly chosen, or purposely chosen to attract attention. So no need to get so upset over something you caused.
I know the system is more complicated, I don't care. I'm not about making the game easier, I'm about making the game more logical, and dare I say "realistic".
Okay, we have all heard this before. It's a game. It doesn't need to be realistic. I mean yes, I do understand what you are pleading. But is realism that important in this case, is it? We don't punch down trees in real life? Shouldn't all blocks be subject to gravity? How come my hand doesn't bleed from punching obsidian or stone? These things are lacking way more realism in the game than not being cut out a block of ice perfectly with a pickaxe.
Not only that. Making these blocks more easily obtainable destroys their rarity. Which I for one enjoy very much in minecraft. Being able to have a block that is much harder to obtain than your average block is wonderful aspect. I enjoyed runecraft on servers because it enabled me to mine ice. I enjoyed being able to build an ice castle and put ice where it does not normally belong because of how I obtained ice. If I were able to just mine ice naturally, this would destroy it's commidity value that ice holds for me right now. That ice castle would no longer be special to me. It'd just be another abitrary building.
But, just because I said the evil buzzword "realistic" this reply I just made will get slammed by 20 people who jump on the "OMG but itz not sposta be reelstic" bandwagon.
Yes, you will get slammed because it can go either way. There are countless elements that are not realistic in minecraft. If we are striving for realism than why should we only be subject to a few select things of your choice? And it is a game, we don't need to worry about realism. You are going to spike arguments of both of these because your poor word choice. You shouldn't choose the word "realism" if it doesn't fit your meaning. And if it does, why should it only be subject to only these few parts of minecraft?
Now, maybe I am wrong here, but it seems to me that "Realism" is nothing more than a word used by you to fit your agenda with a feature you dislike. "Realism" has nothing to do with it.
I, by no means, want to make minecraft simplier, Hell, I'd love it if crafting was deep and complicated.. I just want it to be deep and complicated in a logical way, not a "Well now I need a special magic pickaxe to gather a basic material like an ice block" sort of way. That's simply stupid.
Edit:
Honestly I don't really care if you think enchantments are a ridicious concept. I like enchanted tools. If you think silk touch is unrealistic but every other element in minecraft just passes the acceptable limit for what is realistic than your just being a subjective *****. Floating trees (and a nearly endless list of very unrealistic features) are okay, but enchantments are impossible, biased much.
Mostly moved on. May check back a few times a year.
Weeeeellllll. No. I dont really like this idea.
You've never been able to get all these blocks before.
But now you can! because of silk touch! And yet your still complaining?
I like silk touch because it lets you get all these blocks but also adds progression to get them.
It would be kinda sill if we could mine diamond straight away. People would just be getting stone picks and digging straight down.
And also notch added creative for exactly this purpose! You now can use that to get ANY block you like :biggrin.gif: woo!!! So why not just use that if you want to get any block easily? Or TooManyItems. Dont really care.
And these are pretty insignificant blocks anyway. If you want them THAT hard. Make more glass? Make a dirt trail to where you want for grass. Use pistons to move blocks?
Or silk touch! thats an idea.
Magic Chest Mod - Wood On Steroids.
"Will you be eating that cake?...
Say what you want, but I will be taking the cake."
Pretty much everything OP said.
If you want to keep Silk Touch and have it be "magical" of a sort, then make it the only way you can mine "magical" blocks like End Stone. Since there's a potentially limitless number of fake "magical" ores and materials, Silk Touch would still be worth getting.
But not wasted on mundane things which we already know can be obtained using ordinary tools in the ordinary world.
It's sad how something so obvious as people having a difference of opinion gets flamed/bashed so hard on this forum by people claiming superiority. The trolls here amaze me. I mean hell, we all know "it's a game" and "you don't have to treat it like a bloody battle" but there is a line between "I disagree and here's why..." and "You are all fanboys and idiots if you have any other logical train of though."
Again even in the changes now you are getting more of your wish, as stairs drop stairs (as they should), but all you can do is pretty much complain about something that isn't even the major problem.
As for why Silk Touch will stay and all blocks won't be removed...
-Glass/Glass Panes - It's fine if it drops, I honestly half agree.
-Diamond, Coal Lapis and Redstone Ores- No, Diamond dropping a full Diamond is kind of the point. Coal, It defeats the purpose if you have to smelt it, Lapis and Redstone (and we'll just hit glow stone here) drop more than one, and they drop a varying amount. Something smelting can't really replicate as is.
-Mycelium & Grass - You don't just pop the square out, it just makes sense for it to come out as dirt.
-Double Slabs- Meh.
-Ice- Ice regrows quickly, thus if it was at first mine able, it would be endless.
-Huge Mushrooms- Drops stuff instead, that was mainly the point. It could work like gravel I guess.
-Bookshelves - Getting 3 books back already is pretty good, I wouldn't complain. All it loses now is wood, so you can really recreate Bookshelves already.
Not sure what else to say other than having levels of rarity or complexity in games create more goals and achievements for the user to go for. It's just a unique reward for hard work, like it should be. =D
"-Diamond, Coal Lapis and Redstone Ores
Instead of getting the diamond, coal, lapis or redstone directly when you break the block, how about you just get the ore block itself and "craft" it into the final product? This is better anyway, because if you were to really mine these ores, you'd have a big mess of the ore you want mixed in with stone/cobble/crap and you'd have to sort out. So just make an extra step of tossing the ore in a craft window and collecting the ore from it? Simple huh?"
Is more complicated than it is now? We mine redstone ore, we get redstone ore. Simple huh?
It gets a result.
No. The only one I agree with is Bookshelves. Want to know why? Bookshelves didn't even used to drop anything until recently. Diamonds, Lapis, and possible Redstone are gems. And as such you wouldn't throw them into an oven to smelt like you would when smelting iron or gold. The ice comes from frozen water, which we get from arctic biomes. We have to chip that out. Ice should melt outside snow biomes, imho.
As for glass... This is the same guy that it took almost a year to figure out shears would be a better method to get wool than to cut the sheep in half. So... No. Deal with silk touch.
Actually, most of the people here are misinterpreting what I'm saying because they're going straight to anti-notch-bashing.
I know the system is more complicated, I don't care. I'm not about making the game easier, I'm about making the game more logical, and dare I say "realistic".
But, just because I said the evil buzzword "realistic" this reply I just made will get slammed by 20 people who jump on the "OMG but itz not sposta be reelstic" bandwagon.
I, by no means, want to make minecraft simplier, Hell, I'd love it if crafting was deep and complicated.. I just want it to be deep and complicated in a logical way, not a "Well now I need a special magic pickaxe to gather a basic material like an ice block" sort of way. That's simply stupid.
Whens the last time you smashed a chunk of solid ice off with a knife/saw/pickaxe and it magically turned into water? I'm pretty sure it either A ) Broke into a million small chunks of ice because you used the wrong tools, (MC World: Using the fists, or the wrong tool) or B ) a huge chunk of it broke loose you could barely lift. (MC World: Ice block anyone?) I do agree it should still melt in a non-snow biome. I'm all for that. But it should still be easily collectable. Not a "rare" item, that's silly.
1) Randomized loot quantities are never used when crafting. So with the current game mechanics you couldn't put an item into the crafting grid and get a random amount of a different item back. Thus, as it is currently being suggested, this wouldn't work with redstone and lapis lazuli. (And Glowstone)
2) This would interfere with the Fortune Enchant so much that it would have to be removed. You are pretty much saying take all the blocks the Fortune effects and either make it not work on them, or work in such a way that it could be easily exploited. Do you really want to get rid of half of the 4 tool enchants?
The Sun rises in the North!Now these points of data make a beautiful line...
Agree 90%
I really don't think the op understands that just letting you get those blocks without the silk touch makes the game horribly unbalanced. Well, not really 'horribly' but it does make it unbalanced.
However, I do agree that enchanment system should be improved. Maybe if we just had a way of knowing what enchanments we can buy.
that's sort of the point of my post. It is useless and should be removed.
How does that make the game unbalanced? The only "balance" to this game is the balance we're given. You can't make this game unbalanced you can only change the balance.
Well, the flamers came because of your provocative title. "SILK TOUCH IS IDIOTIC, AND SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM THE GAME". This is inflammatory because it is insulting and demanding. It's common sense you are going to make people mad if you do this.
I dare say you provoked them. Your word choice for the title was either poorly chosen, or purposely chosen to attract attention. So no need to get so upset over something you caused.
Okay, we have all heard this before. It's a game. It doesn't need to be realistic. I mean yes, I do understand what you are pleading. But is realism that important in this case, is it? We don't punch down trees in real life? Shouldn't all blocks be subject to gravity? How come my hand doesn't bleed from punching obsidian or stone? These things are lacking way more realism in the game than not being cut out a block of ice perfectly with a pickaxe.
Not only that. Making these blocks more easily obtainable destroys their rarity. Which I for one enjoy very much in minecraft. Being able to have a block that is much harder to obtain than your average block is wonderful aspect. I enjoyed runecraft on servers because it enabled me to mine ice. I enjoyed being able to build an ice castle and put ice where it does not normally belong because of how I obtained ice. If I were able to just mine ice naturally, this would destroy it's commidity value that ice holds for me right now. That ice castle would no longer be special to me. It'd just be another abitrary building.
Yes, you will get slammed because it can go either way. There are countless elements that are not realistic in minecraft. If we are striving for realism than why should we only be subject to a few select things of your choice? And it is a game, we don't need to worry about realism. You are going to spike arguments of both of these because your poor word choice. You shouldn't choose the word "realism" if it doesn't fit your meaning. And if it does, why should it only be subject to only these few parts of minecraft?
Now, maybe I am wrong here, but it seems to me that "Realism" is nothing more than a word used by you to fit your agenda with a feature you dislike. "Realism" has nothing to do with it.
Edit:
Honestly I don't really care if you think enchantments are a ridicious concept. I like enchanted tools. If you think silk touch is unrealistic but every other element in minecraft just passes the acceptable limit for what is realistic than your just being a subjective *****. Floating trees (and a nearly endless list of very unrealistic features) are okay, but enchantments are impossible, biased much.
Well. Now you can pick them up. Who's the idiot now? Notch, or you?