Placing a pig spawner lets me avoid grinding food so I can play the game.
It's not about XP. I have a 5-pig spawner farm with water flow that directs the piggies away from the spawners to a killing zone (very efficient piggy production).
This is something else that is driving me crazy about all this...you really don't NEED that to have more than enough food to live upon (that's what the farming mechanic is for, which btw also indicates to me we were never supposed to be able to pick these up...with one of those you pretty much invalidate this entire bit of ssp's gameplay). The only reason you might want that is so you can have two chests full of stacks of meat with very little effort.
I know it's bad form to say something like this (No really, I should know better, being on my way to a phd in philosophy), but this debate is concluded in favour of mineable spawners. There has not been one reasonable argument raised in opposition, and plenty of good points in favour. So quit being argumentative and try to see both sides of the argument for once
"It makes food gathering too easy" - Food gathering is already easier by other means
"It isn't intended" - Neither were pistons, until Notch caved
"Too much easy xp" - Way slower than camping in the nether anyways
"Just do things the normal way" - Don't tell us how to play a sandbox game
I know it's bad form to say something like this (No really, I should know better, being on my way to a phd in philosophy), but this debate is concluded in favour of mineable spawners. There has not been one reasonable argument raised in opposition, and plenty of good points in favour. So quit being argumentative and try to see both sides of the argument for once
....so this was never a debate after all if here you are declaring it to be over in your favor. Give me a break. That's one of the most foolish things I think I've seen anyone ever say in these forums. As if that's EVER a valid argument.
*edit*
for the record, you may wish to take your own advice about "being argumentive and try[ing] to see both sides of the argument for once". Honestly.
I know it's bad form to say something like this (No really, I should know better, being on my way to a phd in philosophy), but this debate is concluded in favour of mineable spawners. There has not been one reasonable argument raised in opposition, and plenty of good points in favour. So quit being argumentative and try to see both sides of the argument for once
Actually, I see it as the opposite. I haven't found any of the pro arguments all that great. I see it as something of wanting things easy, of essentially wanted things to be catered to them. Food is easy to get; grow some wheat, fish, start a ranch. The only problem would be those first few days, but even then, you probably wouldn't be able to get a spawner in that time anyway.
I don't have a pig spawner, but I don't ever have to worry about food. I got a small wheat farm, I have fish, I have chickens, I always keep several bowls of Mushroom Stew at home now that mushrooms are so easy to get thanks to Huge Mushrooms drops. I don't even have pigs or cows yet.
And for grinding, hostile mobs give more experience than passive. I found a dungeon, and I just filled in the missing parts of the wall and turned it into a way to farm experience by not removing the zombie spawner, throwing down some water, having a 1x3 open window, and I just stand there and hack 'n slash.
Food isn't hard as is, and there's better ways to get experience, so I find it simply as they want things to be at their most convenient for them, and when it gets changed, they throw a fit, even though as Notch has expressed before, he'd rather have a game too hard than too easy.
So, what you're saying is, you already have everything you need without the bother of enchanting and dungeon looting, and a pig spawner wouldn't really make a difference? Because if that's what you're saying, then I totally agree.
I know it's bad form to say something like this (No really, I should know better, being on my way to a phd in philosophy), but this debate is concluded in favour of mineable spawners. There has not been one reasonable argument raised in opposition, and plenty of good points in favour. So quit being argumentative and try to see both sides of the argument for once
"It makes food gathering too easy" - Food gathering is already easier by other means
"It isn't intended" - Neither were pistons, until Notch caved
"Too much easy xp" - Way slower than camping in the nether anyways
"Just do things the normal way" - Don't tell us how to play a sandbox game
You don't get to participate in a debate and then claim that it concluded in your favor. I can play this game too:
"Food gathering is already easier by other means" - Throw a few pig spawners in your animal pens and meat becomes much easier to get by far. If food is so easy to get, why do you need this?
"Neither were pistons, until Notch caved" - Moving blocks around in an automated way does not generally give you an advantage; you usually spend more resources and time on the contraption than you gain from its operation.
"Way slower than camping in the nether anyways" - It augments what you can get from an experience grinder.
Don't tell us how to play a sandbox game" - Some debate you have here. How would you like it if I told you not to tell me how to think?
And in addition, having silk touch able to move spawners would cause large numbers of players to become frustrated with the game when they spend hours grinding for Silk Touch because they want pig spawners. As it is now, Silk Touch is just a cool thing to have, so it doesn't really matter if it is hard to get.
The spawner becomes a pig spawner when silk mined, and that shouldn't be a problem, it is an effective way at upkeeping your food supply. Kind of sad to see it go away. Oh well, good thing I use TMI (Too Many Items) Inv Editor. I'll just keep spawning them for myself then.
So, what you're saying is, you already have everything you need without the bother of enchanting and dungeon looting, and a pig spawner wouldn't really make a difference? Because if that's what you're saying, then I totally agree.
if it doesn't make a difference, then why should it matter if it's movable or not?
Clearly, if it's such an issue, it does make a difference. Which is exactly why it may be good that it got nerfed, so that people don't rely on it, as may be the intention of the developers.
"Neither were pistons, until Notch caved" - Moving blocks around in an automated way does not generally give you an advantage; you usually spend more resources and time on the contraption than you gain from its operation.
Not to get too far offtopic, but I'd disagree with this, in the right situations they can be used to your advantage (automated harvesters, stairs that sink into the ground and make it impossible for a mob to get up to your door...) but mostly I agree with what you've said.
The exact same argument can be applied to anything. I want craft able wings, because it doesn't hurt anything. I want want the ability to move whole trees in one go, because it doesn't hurt anything. I want to be able to move monster spawners without turning into pigs, because it doesn't hurt anything.
It totally hurts things. It hurts immersion. It hurts because they are so limited in number. They took out peaceable spawners a long time ago for a reason. They didn't bring them in with pre4, it was merely an oversighte when programming an entirely new feature. They were never supposed to be pickupable. And now, like a toddler who had candy waved in front of it, people are throwing tantrums about the candy when if it was never seen in the first place, there'd not be a noise.
I wouldn't say a toddler throwing a tantrum. I'd say a customer that was shown a "feature" then told that it was an "oops". If it was an oops, it should have been hot fixed. Not waved in our face to get used to.
Your analogy is just as much ******** as the decision to remove the "feature".
I will parrot what's been said a million times:
It's not easy to get an enchanter.
It's not easy to get the EXP.
It's not easy to get the Silk Touch.
It's not easy to find a spawner.
AND... all we get are infinite pigs.
LET THE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR ****ING PIGS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
I wouldn't say a toddler throwing a tantrum. I'd say a customer that was shown a "feature" then told that it was an "oops". If it was an oops, it should have been fixed. Not waved in our face to get used to.
Your analogy is just as much brilliant as the decision to remove the "feature".
I will parrot what's been said a million times:
It's not easy to get an enchanter.
It's not easy to get the EXP.
It's not easy to get the Silk Touch.
It's not easy to find a spawner.
AND... all we get are some pigs.
LET THE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR ****ING PIGS FOR ******* OUT LOUD!
If everyone could have what they "warned", minecraft would be a mess. Minecraft is not charity, Mojang has an idea of what they want the game to be, if you don't like it: EDIT IT.
The reason you can't move spawners is because when you have a few near each other the player begins to get performance issues. On a server this would affect everyone so don't expect it to come back.
Only if the player is NEAR them spawners. Build it out of the way of normal flow of players, BOOM issues solved. Not that hard.
Not to get too far offtopic, but I'd disagree with this, in the right situations they can be used to your advantage (automated harvesters, stairs that sink into the ground and make it impossible for a mob to get up to your door...) but mostly I agree with what you've said.
The difference is that a piston is a tool that can be used to creatively solve a bunch of different small problems, while a pig spawner is the solution itself.
always an enlightening experience arguing with 100 year olds.
Building a contraption requires know-how, design, planning, resources. Simply moving a poop spawner nullifies all of that, it makes the contraption utterly uselless. It have the game. And we don't know what Notch has in stall for the future of WC. For all we know he might have the intention of making it a lot harder, in which case moving mob spawners might become a major imbalance.
But even as things stand today - food is a major part of the survival gameplay. While not difficult, maintaining a nothing resource supply requires some effort, on the contrary getting a poopspawner is possible by simply playing the game and is fully automatic from the get-go. Once you have it you won't need to spend more than ? minutes setting it up to be a fully automatic poop.
While not being the a make-or- break feature, it does show the immature want-mentality of the community. Waving candy in front of toddlers is not a bad analogy. What is even more pathetic is how part of the community feel they are entitled to have whatever they want. If there is anything you personally feel you are missing, feel free to try it out with a ?.
Oh almighty customer , whose 15 dollars allow him to ***** TO THE HIGH HEAVENS , allow me to remind you that this is a pre-release , a beta within a beta. This "mistake" will not be waved in your face once the official release is out and hasn't affected your game in the slightest.
People wanted to test early builds similar to pre-releases. Mojang gave them that opportunity. Then some of you knuckleheads decided that you want a damn pre-release to be bug free. Good god...
Who the **** said anything about wanting a pre-release bug free?
I know I didn't.
What I want is for bug that exploits the game (as most of you opposing us call it) to be hotfixed. Not left in as a goddamn feature.
Who the **** said anything about wanting a pre-release bug free?
I know I didn't.
What I want is for bug that exploits the game (as most of you opposing us call it) to be hotfixed. Not left in as a goddamn feature.
This is bait and switch. Not beta testing.
This post is so not intelligent... You don't hotfix a pre-release (which is in itself pretty much just a lot of fixes after another), but if you did it'd be because it causes major game crashes, not that you can get a spawner, which is itself not even the biggest exploit that's ever been patched away.
If you ever for a second thought that using Silk Touch on a spawner and getting a spawner was a feature then you need to find where you misplaced your brain.
This is something else that is driving me crazy about all this...you really don't NEED that to have more than enough food to live upon (that's what the farming mechanic is for, which btw also indicates to me we were never supposed to be able to pick these up...with one of those you pretty much invalidate this entire bit of ssp's gameplay). The only reason you might want that is so you can have two chests full of stacks of meat with very little effort.
"It makes food gathering too easy" - Food gathering is already easier by other means
"It isn't intended" - Neither were pistons, until Notch caved
"Too much easy xp" - Way slower than camping in the nether anyways
"Just do things the normal way" - Don't tell us how to play a sandbox game
....so this was never a debate after all if here you are declaring it to be over in your favor. Give me a break. That's one of the most foolish things I think I've seen anyone ever say in these forums. As if that's EVER a valid argument.
*edit*
for the record, you may wish to take your own advice about "being argumentive and try[ing] to see both sides of the argument for once". Honestly.
Actually, I see it as the opposite. I haven't found any of the pro arguments all that great. I see it as something of wanting things easy, of essentially wanted things to be catered to them. Food is easy to get; grow some wheat, fish, start a ranch. The only problem would be those first few days, but even then, you probably wouldn't be able to get a spawner in that time anyway.
I don't have a pig spawner, but I don't ever have to worry about food. I got a small wheat farm, I have fish, I have chickens, I always keep several bowls of Mushroom Stew at home now that mushrooms are so easy to get thanks to Huge Mushrooms drops. I don't even have pigs or cows yet.
And for grinding, hostile mobs give more experience than passive. I found a dungeon, and I just filled in the missing parts of the wall and turned it into a way to farm experience by not removing the zombie spawner, throwing down some water, having a 1x3 open window, and I just stand there and hack 'n slash.
Food isn't hard as is, and there's better ways to get experience, so I find it simply as they want things to be at their most convenient for them, and when it gets changed, they throw a fit, even though as Notch has expressed before, he'd rather have a game too hard than too easy.
It gets a result.
So, what you're saying is, you already have everything you need without the bother of enchanting and dungeon looting, and a pig spawner wouldn't really make a difference? Because if that's what you're saying, then I totally agree.
You don't get to participate in a debate and then claim that it concluded in your favor. I can play this game too:
"Food gathering is already easier by other means" - Throw a few pig spawners in your animal pens and meat becomes much easier to get by far. If food is so easy to get, why do you need this?
"Neither were pistons, until Notch caved" - Moving blocks around in an automated way does not generally give you an advantage; you usually spend more resources and time on the contraption than you gain from its operation.
"Way slower than camping in the nether anyways" - It augments what you can get from an experience grinder.
Don't tell us how to play a sandbox game" - Some debate you have here. How would you like it if I told you not to tell me how to think?
And in addition, having silk touch able to move spawners would cause large numbers of players to become frustrated with the game when they spend hours grinding for Silk Touch because they want pig spawners. As it is now, Silk Touch is just a cool thing to have, so it doesn't really matter if it is hard to get.
if it doesn't make a difference, then why should it matter if it's movable or not?
Clearly, if it's such an issue, it does make a difference. Which is exactly why it may be good that it got nerfed, so that people don't rely on it, as may be the intention of the developers.
It gets a result.
Not to get too far offtopic, but I'd disagree with this, in the right situations they can be used to your advantage (automated harvesters, stairs that sink into the ground and make it impossible for a mob to get up to your door...) but mostly I agree with what you've said.
I wouldn't say a toddler throwing a tantrum. I'd say a customer that was shown a "feature" then told that it was an "oops". If it was an oops, it should have been hot fixed. Not waved in our face to get used to.
Your analogy is just as much ******** as the decision to remove the "feature".
I will parrot what's been said a million times:
It's not easy to get an enchanter.
It's not easy to get the EXP.
It's not easy to get the Silk Touch.
It's not easy to find a spawner.
AND... all we get are infinite pigs.
LET THE PEOPLE HAVE THEIR ****ING PIGS FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!
(edited)fixed
FIXED
Only if the player is NEAR them spawners. Build it out of the way of normal flow of players, BOOM issues solved. Not that hard.
The difference is that a piston is a tool that can be used to creatively solve a bunch of different small problems, while a pig spawner is the solution itself.
what?
Retard. He has a point.
Who the **** said anything about wanting a pre-release bug free?
I know I didn't.
What I want is for bug that exploits the game (as most of you opposing us call it) to be hotfixed. Not left in as a goddamn feature.
This is bait and switch. Not beta testing.
This post is so not intelligent... You don't hotfix a pre-release (which is in itself pretty much just a lot of fixes after another), but if you did it'd be because it causes major game crashes, not that you can get a spawner, which is itself not even the biggest exploit that's ever been patched away.
If you ever for a second thought that using Silk Touch on a spawner and getting a spawner was a feature then you need to find where you misplaced your brain.