If you wanna spend all your time on minecraft just left clicking then that's your choice. However, I will be enjoying myself by playing the actual game because games are made for fun and left clicking all day doesn't sound like fun to me.
All mobs spawn infinitely, so there will always be infinite experience. Not like it's hard to kill mobs even at night with no shelter. If you want to kill mobs from behind a wall for hours and get to lvl 30 go for it.
I will be running around at night risking my life to kill mobs and get loot and as I play normally, I will gain more and more experience over time, eventually unlocking enchanting table and then spend my experience.
I don't understand why anyone has problems with mobtraps in the first place. They might as well get rid of redstone since I can completely automate my farms as well, and I can even make elevators and water setups that could literally make it seem like I'm "on rails" and just have to right click a switch once in a while. That is the beauty of this game. An efficient mobtrap takes several days, that is no joke. They nerfed hostiles' spawning a bit too, so a 1 room mobtrap will not do you justice. You will likely use up a stack or two of iron meaning you have to spend a bit of time branch mining, you have to spend time making enough torches to light the whole room up, harvesting bread/etc. or running around killing cows and pigs and chickens, or even stop to build a breeding farm. You don't just go "I want a mobtrap, chop chop, done". Even then you can't hold down the left click and keep hitting mobs that come into range. Also, with bows you can't just spam anymore unless you like wasting arrows, so they've balanced it good enough. My mobtrap is the design on the wiki, to the T. 50x50x2, and one floor was netting me barely anything. It took several hours to get to level 15 - 20 and even then I'd have gone through a couple diamond swords and had to make a netherwart farm and fight a bunch of blazes as well. On top of that I had to make a bunch of fire-resist potions, all of this while expanding my vault room and having to harvest my farms and when the animals are ready to breed, breeding them and killing a few to keep lag from growing.
So all in all if on a pvp server that whole time gives someone a lot of time to scour the land looking for my name while I am pre-occupied with building up my resources. I still have to spend a lot of time branchmining and I spent a week real life time expanding the mobtrap to now be 5 floors. Even still it takes an hour or two, using potions of strength, and enchanted swords (wastes half of the levels I gain each time), etc. Squids spawn in packs it seems and sometimes a bunch of them come through the trap, slimes fall and die because I guess the water stops don't work to reduce the slimes fall damage, so right there I'm losing some mobs to get exp from. Skeletons hit you on mp easily thanks to the hitboxes and not being able to hit their feet to kill them, so you end up having to keep making armor as well, or moving out of sight so you can regen, etc.
For people like myself, once I get the mobtrap done I start working on making it better, and then building traps for people that might find the base. It gives me a few weeks of solid things to do regardless and once I have a bunch of loot stocked up I work on something else. I will go raid as well but I don't use hacks or anything so my stocked up resources really don't help. Even with bow and a bunch of arrows I end up usually needing to pull out the diamond sword and then depending on who has a better connection to the server, my armor and weps don't really matter. So what is the problem?
If mobtraps are "unbalanced" then enchants are too. Since mobtraps and enchants are optional, but the person who doesn't choose to utilize said tool will be at a small disatvantage on pvp/survival, it gives everyone something else to do. I still go exploring and fight mobs all over the place, but when my farms all need to be harvested or I'm mining I can run between doing all these things and I have mobs to kill for exp to enchant another pick, etc.
Seeing as how dungeons aren't easy to find, when someone does find it, it's perfectly fine for them to reap the rewards in whatever way they choose. A few pieces of bread or iron and string or gunpowder, buckets, a saddle, etc. is useless to me. Arrows, or spider eyes, etc. Even still I can't just afk and get the exp so i still basically have to fight the mobs on smp. Transporting them to me and being able to jump out of their sight is no different than running around at night and jumping behind a tree, or some other cover.
So to everyone their own but don't try to hinder the experience for those of us who find more entertainment building the mobtraps and stuff than using the drops and stuff. Also, I think it's a little more important that they work on implementing a real anti-cheat system because what is REALLY unbalanced is how all the people who didn't pay for the game and have hacked clients and grief teams/hackers can all join up and cause mayhem for everyone. Even with banning and stuff they still can get around it so lets maybe focus our complaints towards something that will benefit all of us who play the game without 3rd party cheats (on multiplayer, singleplayer is fine).
stop generalizing so much.
Notch didn't plan on making mob traps happen.
He probably didn't plan automatic harvesting either.
automatic harvesting isn't unbalanced, you have to replant everything and it's not a big deal with some extra low tier food.
mob traps is a big deal if you can get thousands off xp points and be invincible with defensive armour.
And don't mix player made stuff with features like enhancement.
Notch didn't plan on making mob traps happen.
He probably didn't plan automatic harvesting either.
automatic harvesting isn't unbalanced, you have to replant everything and it's not a big deal with some extra low tier food.
mob traps is a big deal if you can get thousands off xp points and be invincible with defensive armour.
And don't mix player made stuff with features like enhancement.
A. You do not have to replant sugarcane. You do not have to replant melons. I have chests upon chests full of melons. For instance my melonfarm pistons crush the melons into slices, and then I run along the path to collect the slices and spam right click to retill as I run out. Simple enough. The size of my farm nets me over 4 stacks each harvest. Enough that I technically don't have to even think about the melonfarm for weeks.
B. It's as big a deal as mobtraps. Same thing as having to replant, you have to physically kill each one to get exp. So right there your point is gone.
C. There is no generalization. Do you think Notch planned on people being able to make ALU's? They can't "plan" for every type of creation that can be constructed when you have millions of people and they can alter the environment. So no, it's not a problem. YOU can make a mobtrap if you get angry that someone else took the time to and stands there killing the mobs, and breaking swords while doing so. So they have to physically craft swords as well. On smp you cannot hit the mobs from hidden spots that they can't see you, so it takes more effort than harvesting my melon farm.
D. You can pick what server you play on. If you dislike that not many servers ban autofarms and mobtraps get a job, and pay for a server. Simple as that. They shouldn't have to dumb the game down to make a few grumpy people happy. Happens on every game anymore. That's why quake and warsow are better than COD and Battlefield. The servers I play on quake and warsow if you even ONCE whine about campers you're banned. Instantly. You either learn how to beat people at their own game or you find a place that plays the way you want. Simple as that. There is no arguement anymore.
I get tired of the whining on these forums. I get tired of everyone's personal anger issues over a game as simple as this spamming the forums. Either learn how to play minecraft or don't. Your choice. You are not forced to make a mobtrap. If you don't get bored of running around at night to kill mobs pointlessly that's your deal. At said point this game actually gives us a role to play, and a goal to reach (Not just going to a stronghold, killing a few endermen, and fighting one boss, then going back home with mega exp levels), you can start to complain about balance issues. If the actual game itself gives these goals, not 3rd party plugins, etc.
The actual base game is survival. Simple as that. You either learn how to thrive, or you spend every day doing the same thing. Once I've put a week into monotonous survival I expect to be able to thrive. Think of it as with evolution. We started off slow right? Then a hundred years ago boom. That's how it is in game.
You don't want people to be able to blow your house up with tnt? That's an actual game feature though so how comes I have to put up with that if I don't install plugins?? I don't like that but I'm not going to expect Notch to waste time dumbing the game down so that I can whine about the next thing someone does that hurts my feelings.
I don't worry about it. I have a job. If I dislike what people can do on the vanilla game I will take some chum change out of the bank and rent a server. 25 dollars a month. If something is so unbelievably gamebreaking (in your opinion) I suggest you do that.
If that's how some people want to play, sure let them do it.
I have nothing against those people but I find it better to hunt at night.
It's entirely up to the player how they do things, limiting things because others don't like it doesn't help. Let someone do their own thing while we do ours.
I believe it should boil down to more of issue IF it's balanced, not if it should go. Which none of us are at liberty to decide because sadly mobtaps can vary so much in design.
Do people not understand what balance means? So if Notch replaced all dirt with diamonds, it would be okay because "you don't have to use the diamond"?
Do people not understand what balance means? So if Notch replaced all dirt with diamonds, it would be okay because "you don't have to use the diamond"?
But we do have to take into account that mobtraps have already been dampened somewhat. Mobs spawn more rarely it seems, they also drop fewer items in my opinion(not sure if that is 100% correct), and they also have to be killed by hand(which I do dislike the weakening traps that get around this for the most part). So I can't say with 100% certainty that mobtraps are still unbalanced. Mobspawners in my opinion could use some sort of programming to give out less than the average mob(in both items and exp), but that's about all I think needs to be done at this point.
But we do have to take into account that mobtraps have already been dampened somewhat. Mobs spawn more rarely it seems, they also drop fewer items in my opinion(not sure if that is 100% correct), and they also have to be killed by hand. So I can't say with 100% certainty that mobtraps are still unbalanced. Mobspawners in my opinion could use some sort of programming to give out less than the average mob(in both items and exp), but that's about all I think needs to be done at this point.
But we do have to take into account that mobtraps have already been dampened somewhat. Mobs spawn more rarely it seems, they also drop fewer items in my opinion(not sure if that is 100% correct), and they also have to be killed by hand(which I do dislike the weakening traps that get around this for the most part). So I can't say with 100% certainty that mobtraps are still unbalanced. Mobspawners in my opinion could use some sort of programming to give out less than the average mob(in both items and exp), but that's about all I think needs to be done at this point.
Mob traps are still more efficient than running around and killing things. Safer too.
Though I feel nerfing traps will be unnecessary unless they plan on balancing enchantments at all. It's just too much of a gamble to spend time (lot's of time) and hard-earned diamonds on something that is not guaranteed.
A. You do not have to replant sugarcane. You do not have to replant melons. I have chests upon chests full of melons. For instance my melonfarm pistons crush the melons into slices, and then I run along the path to collect the slices and spam right click to retill as I run out. Simple enough. The size of my farm nets me over 4 stacks each harvest. Enough that I technically don't have to even think about the melonfarm for weeks.
B. It's as big a deal as mobtraps. Same thing as having to replant, you have to physically kill each one to get exp. So right there your point is gone.
A. So what? Those are low tier items that don't matter which is why auto-harvest systems are generally not deemed a problem or an issue.
B. They are not as big of a deal as mob traps. They give you nothing that you can use against someone else. Nothing, but mob traps on the other hand, if built and used correctly, give XP and items from mobs which can be used directly against or used to enhance items to use directly against other players.
C. There is no generalization. Do you think Notch planned on people being able to make ALU's? They can't "plan" for every type of creation that can be constructed when you have millions of people and they can alter the environment. So no, it's not a problem. YOU can make a mobtrap if you get angry that someone else took the time to and stands there killing the mobs, and breaking swords while doing so. So they have to physically craft swords as well. On smp you cannot hit the mobs from hidden spots that they can't see you, so it takes more effort than harvesting my melon farm.
What? You're comparing a redstone circuit with mob traps? Apples and oranges. If done properly, the player using the mob trap they built shouldn't actually break any weapons.
I get tired of the whining on these forums. I get tired of everyone's personal anger issues over a game as simple as this spamming the forums. Either learn how to play minecraft or don't. Your choice. You are not forced to make a mobtrap.
At no time should one be basically forced to leave a server because of the unwritten requirement to use a mob trap just to play keep up. In an expansion to Magic:tG Wizards created a card called Skull Clamp. What ended up happening was you either ran the card, or you had a big chance of losing. That was the meta-game: run this card and stand a chance of winning or don't have have a bigger chance of losing. Eventually Wizards banned the card from Standard because of what it did to the meta-game and how it was being worked into every deck, even decks that wouldn't normally use it. Mob traps are similar in that if you don't use them in a PvP environment you could get by, but those who use them will simply have a permanent advantage over you given equal skill level.
The actual base game is survival. Simple as that. You either learn how to thrive, or you spend every day doing the same thing. Once I've put a week into monotonous survival I expect to be able to thrive. Think of it as with evolution. We started off slow right? Then a hundred years ago boom. That's how it is in game.
You don't want people to be able to blow your house up with tnt? That's an actual game feature though so how comes I have to put up with that if I don't install plugins?? I don't like that but I'm not going to expect Notch to waste time dumbing the game down so that I can whine about the next thing someone does that hurts my feelings.
I don't worry about it. I have a job. If I dislike what people can do on the vanilla game I will take some chum change out of the bank and rent a server. 25 dollars a month. If something is so unbelievably gamebreaking (in your opinion) I suggest you do that.
Mojang doesn't have to dumb down the game to break mob traps or make them less efficient which would be good for the game, overall.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
Notch actually predicted the creation of ALUs when he added redstone. He even commented that it took longer than he expected before the first ALU was released. I don't think he predicted the mob traps in the same way. Mob traps is in many ways a more technical usage of game mechanics while redstone is an integral part of the design. You can't compare them.
The questions that Mojang is asking themselfs now are:
- Do players get too much experience too fast when using a mob gathering machine?
- Does it make it too easy to obtain high level enchants?
- Should we assume that everyone build mob traps and lower the amount of experience dropped?
- Should we attempt to do something about mob traps so that making one is more work than it's worth?
- Should we ignore the problem entirely and accept that different people play our game differently?
The community can discuss this until the end of time, but the really interesting questions is what Mojang think about this and whether they intend to do anything about it.
Do people not understand what balance means? So if Notch replaced all dirt with diamonds, it would be okay because "you don't have to use the diamond"?
Nope there is no need for balance in this department, you play the game how you want when it comes to mob killing, if you like to kill monsters at night and go on big mob hunting adventures then that's what you like and that is your choice. However if someone else prefers to use very basic standard game mechanics to build a structure for mobs to spawn in and collect items/exp that way then that is their choice.
You have no right to tell someone they can't build a mob harvester because you would rather impose your will on them that you are supposed to go hunt mobs at night or in caves like everyone else.
I have to say early on, we had some pretty intelligent conversation in this thread, now it seems to just be people who don't want to take the time or effort to build a mob harvester and just want to hunt mobs at night and in caves attempting to impose their will on the Minecraft community. Its pathetic.
Mob Harvesters don't break the game, they aren't exploits, and they fall within the very basics of the game fundamentals. for all those that want to continue to cry about them, you do realize you can build one yourself. I don't use them, I don't care if others do, If I want to use one, then I'll build one. simple as that.
I think we should balance minecraft, heres my attempt! "Make it so you can only build within a 1x1 square."
A. So what? Those are low tier items that don't matter which is why auto-harvest systems are generally not deemed a problem or an issue.
B. They are not as big of a deal as mob traps. They give you nothing that you can use against someone else. Nothing, but mob traps on the other hand, if built and used correctly, give XP and items from mobs which can be used directly against or used to enhance items to use directly against other players.
What? You're comparing a redstone circuit with mob traps? Apples and oranges. If done properly, the player using the mob trap they built shouldn't actually break any weapons.
At no time should one be basically forced to leave a server because of the unwritten requirement to use a mob trap just to play keep up. In an expansion to Magic:tG Wizards created a card called Skull Clamp. What ended up happening was you either ran the card, or you had a big chance of losing. That was the meta-game: run this card and stand a chance of winning or don't have have a bigger chance of losing. Eventually Wizards banned the card from Standard because of what it did to the meta-game and how it was being worked into every deck, even decks that wouldn't normally use it. Mob traps are similar in that if you don't use them in a PvP environment you could get by, but those who use them will simply have a permanent advantage over you given equal skill level.
Mojang doesn't have to dumb down the game to break mob traps or make them less efficient which would be good for the game, overall.
A. Sugar is as low tier as for example... zombie flesh. So the item drops in mobtraps aren't an issue.
B. It doesn't matter what is a "bigger deal" it matters that if you want to dumb down one automated mechanism, it's only fair to remove ALL. I shouldn't have to lose out on one of my favorite constructions while you're still able to build yours for example.
C. Best I can do to level with you is that they should remove mobspawners. Making efficient mobtraps on smp when you have to do it from scratch takes a while. Even then, if you apparently haven't been keeping up with changes. Mobspawning has been nerfed a bit. Even mobs that spawn within the max range a certain distance away from you will stand still and despawn quickly. My 3rd floor up to 5th the mobs that spawn on those floors take a few steps stand still and despawn in a short amount of time(used camera bug and U key to go up and watch them...
So now my only hope of having those floors somewhat useful is to somehow place pressure plates everywhere and rig the ceiling with pistons to come down and hurt those mobs so they start moving. Do you even know how long that will take? I actually CAN'T do that since there is only ONE block between each floor. I didn't build the trap with this knowledge beforehand, so now I just deal with the bottom two floors working perfect. Also took a very long time to get enough wood to make enough signs to lace every spawnpad that has a drop which would hurt the mobs therefore they wouldn't walk off...
Sword damage has been nerfed. Without using potions of strength it takes 3 to 4 hits with diamond sword to kill the mobs. Yes, I COULD easily remove the water cushions I made when it was originally the top floor only and hurt them to where it only takes one hit, BUT, slimes already die on impact even with water stops, and some mobs still die from the fall from the higher floors when they spawn close to edges and walk for one second and fall in.
To actually build an efficient mobtrap on SMP will take a LOT of work, and in that whole time it is up to YOU to find them. You don't even have to kill them, just loot their mobtrap when they log off. Problem solved right?
Also, you are not FORCED to LEAVE a server. You are FORCED to ASK QUESTIONS WHEN YOU JOIN. Ask "are mobtraps allowed". If a yes answer back to the forums right? Is that so hard? People are just lazy and instead of bothering to read the rules on the server thread or at SPAWN they just join up and start building then cry bloody murder when the rules they forgot to read allow imbalance or pvp/grief.
Is griefing ok then? It is indeed an intended feature of the game correct? Removing blocks even if they were placed by others? Since you don't want me comparing mobtraps to intended features what is your opinion on griefing. Should I be forced to leave a server when someone griefs my house and I "rage"? Forget that I could've read the rules and asked questions before mindlessly putting time into it. Forget that important detail please for the sake of your argument and mine. So I'm to understand that intended features should be allowed but things people can build that will make them have an advantage over you (you can always build one too), should be. Cool. I see your logic, things look pretty righteous from your perspective. Mind giving us the IP of your server so anyone who likes to use the intended feature known as griefing can come play nice with you. That's cool with you right? It's intended and there is no balance problems with it so c'mon you should be all for it. I personally don't like griefing but you sure do make a compelling argument for it!
In the meantime hopefully Notch rewrites this hole game from scratch and puts us "on rails". That sounds like fun right? No balance problems then, that is AWESOME. C'mon everyone lets go tweet notch asking for just that. We'll have fun picking blocks up while we walk in a straight line and place them. I WANT that exact game right now.
I'm personally indifferent about the matter. their are hundreds of ways to avoid some one with with tons of xp but knowing most of you people you think you can walk 300 blocks from the spawn in a survival server and build a base, and expect people to leave you alone. the truth is you have to go a minimum of 5000 blocks to be just a LITTLE ways away from people and even then your not that far from others. and really! if some one is lucky enough to find a spawner and smart enough to make a infinite xp source out of it than good for them! i personaly think its better just to make it into a regular grinder. besides if you play the game right and dont die by the time you have an enchantment table you should be at least level 15 (that's if you kill stuff and don't run away)
Please don't respond to peoples replies if you haven't read them. In this case you didn't even finish the first paragraph.
Take your own advice because, in this case, you didn't get past the first sentence.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
I see the terms "OP"or "OverPowered" and "Balanced" being thrown around quite liberally here and it makes me wonder.
how is this whole mobspawner xp farm thing "overpowered"? And how does it upset the balance? the balance of what?
Minecraft is a very unpolished and unfinished game, even if it's supposedly getting released tomorrow (it's the 17th my end of the globe). There is no "balance". There is point click for getting blocks and point click for getting mobs dead. And with plenty of that you can get point click kill 100 mobs in one go. There is literally no balance to upset if you make a mobtrap or not.
Were not talking call of duty or starcraft 2 or league of legends here folks. There is no balance to upset
There is only Markus Persson's and Jens Bergstein's vision of what is fair and unfair in the game they are developing, other than that there is nothing to balance out. I can solo 4 creepers with hunger ticking and a stone sword, but on the same page I get gibbed by 1 cave spider in full iron armor and an iron sword with full hp and hunger bar.
Maybe if endermen could build player traps then we'll have some real balance... oh wait.
Made me giggle a bit :smile.gif:
I will be running around at night risking my life to kill mobs and get loot and as I play normally, I will gain more and more experience over time, eventually unlocking enchanting table and then spend my experience.
Cause that would be the most fun for me.
stop generalizing so much.
Notch didn't plan on making mob traps happen.
He probably didn't plan automatic harvesting either.
automatic harvesting isn't unbalanced, you have to replant everything and it's not a big deal with some extra low tier food.
mob traps is a big deal if you can get thousands off xp points and be invincible with defensive armour.
And don't mix player made stuff with features like enhancement.
A. You do not have to replant sugarcane. You do not have to replant melons. I have chests upon chests full of melons. For instance my melonfarm pistons crush the melons into slices, and then I run along the path to collect the slices and spam right click to retill as I run out. Simple enough. The size of my farm nets me over 4 stacks each harvest. Enough that I technically don't have to even think about the melonfarm for weeks.
B. It's as big a deal as mobtraps. Same thing as having to replant, you have to physically kill each one to get exp. So right there your point is gone.
C. There is no generalization. Do you think Notch planned on people being able to make ALU's? They can't "plan" for every type of creation that can be constructed when you have millions of people and they can alter the environment. So no, it's not a problem. YOU can make a mobtrap if you get angry that someone else took the time to and stands there killing the mobs, and breaking swords while doing so. So they have to physically craft swords as well. On smp you cannot hit the mobs from hidden spots that they can't see you, so it takes more effort than harvesting my melon farm.
D. You can pick what server you play on. If you dislike that not many servers ban autofarms and mobtraps get a job, and pay for a server. Simple as that. They shouldn't have to dumb the game down to make a few grumpy people happy. Happens on every game anymore. That's why quake and warsow are better than COD and Battlefield. The servers I play on quake and warsow if you even ONCE whine about campers you're banned. Instantly. You either learn how to beat people at their own game or you find a place that plays the way you want. Simple as that. There is no arguement anymore.
I get tired of the whining on these forums. I get tired of everyone's personal anger issues over a game as simple as this spamming the forums. Either learn how to play minecraft or don't. Your choice. You are not forced to make a mobtrap. If you don't get bored of running around at night to kill mobs pointlessly that's your deal. At said point this game actually gives us a role to play, and a goal to reach (Not just going to a stronghold, killing a few endermen, and fighting one boss, then going back home with mega exp levels), you can start to complain about balance issues. If the actual game itself gives these goals, not 3rd party plugins, etc.
The actual base game is survival. Simple as that. You either learn how to thrive, or you spend every day doing the same thing. Once I've put a week into monotonous survival I expect to be able to thrive. Think of it as with evolution. We started off slow right? Then a hundred years ago boom. That's how it is in game.
You don't want people to be able to blow your house up with tnt? That's an actual game feature though so how comes I have to put up with that if I don't install plugins?? I don't like that but I'm not going to expect Notch to waste time dumbing the game down so that I can whine about the next thing someone does that hurts my feelings.
I don't worry about it. I have a job. If I dislike what people can do on the vanilla game I will take some chum change out of the bank and rent a server. 25 dollars a month. If something is so unbelievably gamebreaking (in your opinion) I suggest you do that.
do you read much he even said he went into the room and killed the zombies and got xp
I believe it should boil down to more of issue IF it's balanced, not if it should go. Which none of us are at liberty to decide because sadly mobtaps can vary so much in design.
But we do have to take into account that mobtraps have already been dampened somewhat. Mobs spawn more rarely it seems, they also drop fewer items in my opinion(not sure if that is 100% correct), and they also have to be killed by hand(which I do dislike the weakening traps that get around this for the most part). So I can't say with 100% certainty that mobtraps are still unbalanced. Mobspawners in my opinion could use some sort of programming to give out less than the average mob(in both items and exp), but that's about all I think needs to be done at this point.
Indeed.
Mob traps are still more efficient than running around and killing things. Safer too.
Though I feel nerfing traps will be unnecessary unless they plan on balancing enchantments at all. It's just too much of a gamble to spend time (lot's of time) and hard-earned diamonds on something that is not guaranteed.
A. So what? Those are low tier items that don't matter which is why auto-harvest systems are generally not deemed a problem or an issue.
B. They are not as big of a deal as mob traps. They give you nothing that you can use against someone else. Nothing, but mob traps on the other hand, if built and used correctly, give XP and items from mobs which can be used directly against or used to enhance items to use directly against other players.
What? You're comparing a redstone circuit with mob traps? Apples and oranges. If done properly, the player using the mob trap they built shouldn't actually break any weapons.
At no time should one be basically forced to leave a server because of the unwritten requirement to use a mob trap just to play keep up. In an expansion to Magic:tG Wizards created a card called Skull Clamp. What ended up happening was you either ran the card, or you had a big chance of losing. That was the meta-game: run this card and stand a chance of winning or don't have have a bigger chance of losing. Eventually Wizards banned the card from Standard because of what it did to the meta-game and how it was being worked into every deck, even decks that wouldn't normally use it. Mob traps are similar in that if you don't use them in a PvP environment you could get by, but those who use them will simply have a permanent advantage over you given equal skill level.
Mojang doesn't have to dumb down the game to break mob traps or make them less efficient which would be good for the game, overall.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
The questions that Mojang is asking themselfs now are:
- Do players get too much experience too fast when using a mob gathering machine?
- Does it make it too easy to obtain high level enchants?
- Should we assume that everyone build mob traps and lower the amount of experience dropped?
- Should we attempt to do something about mob traps so that making one is more work than it's worth?
- Should we ignore the problem entirely and accept that different people play our game differently?
The community can discuss this until the end of time, but the really interesting questions is what Mojang think about this and whether they intend to do anything about it.
Nope there is no need for balance in this department, you play the game how you want when it comes to mob killing, if you like to kill monsters at night and go on big mob hunting adventures then that's what you like and that is your choice. However if someone else prefers to use very basic standard game mechanics to build a structure for mobs to spawn in and collect items/exp that way then that is their choice.
You have no right to tell someone they can't build a mob harvester because you would rather impose your will on them that you are supposed to go hunt mobs at night or in caves like everyone else.
I have to say early on, we had some pretty intelligent conversation in this thread, now it seems to just be people who don't want to take the time or effort to build a mob harvester and just want to hunt mobs at night and in caves attempting to impose their will on the Minecraft community. Its pathetic.
Mob Harvesters don't break the game, they aren't exploits, and they fall within the very basics of the game fundamentals. for all those that want to continue to cry about them, you do realize you can build one yourself. I don't use them, I don't care if others do, If I want to use one, then I'll build one. simple as that.
I think we should balance minecraft, heres my attempt! "Make it so you can only build within a 1x1 square."
I've imposed my will NOTCH MAKE IT SO!
A. Sugar is as low tier as for example... zombie flesh. So the item drops in mobtraps aren't an issue.
B. It doesn't matter what is a "bigger deal" it matters that if you want to dumb down one automated mechanism, it's only fair to remove ALL. I shouldn't have to lose out on one of my favorite constructions while you're still able to build yours for example.
C. Best I can do to level with you is that they should remove mobspawners. Making efficient mobtraps on smp when you have to do it from scratch takes a while. Even then, if you apparently haven't been keeping up with changes. Mobspawning has been nerfed a bit. Even mobs that spawn within the max range a certain distance away from you will stand still and despawn quickly. My 3rd floor up to 5th the mobs that spawn on those floors take a few steps stand still and despawn in a short amount of time(used camera bug and U key to go up and watch them...
So now my only hope of having those floors somewhat useful is to somehow place pressure plates everywhere and rig the ceiling with pistons to come down and hurt those mobs so they start moving. Do you even know how long that will take? I actually CAN'T do that since there is only ONE block between each floor. I didn't build the trap with this knowledge beforehand, so now I just deal with the bottom two floors working perfect. Also took a very long time to get enough wood to make enough signs to lace every spawnpad that has a drop which would hurt the mobs therefore they wouldn't walk off...
Sword damage has been nerfed. Without using potions of strength it takes 3 to 4 hits with diamond sword to kill the mobs. Yes, I COULD easily remove the water cushions I made when it was originally the top floor only and hurt them to where it only takes one hit, BUT, slimes already die on impact even with water stops, and some mobs still die from the fall from the higher floors when they spawn close to edges and walk for one second and fall in.
To actually build an efficient mobtrap on SMP will take a LOT of work, and in that whole time it is up to YOU to find them. You don't even have to kill them, just loot their mobtrap when they log off. Problem solved right?
Also, you are not FORCED to LEAVE a server. You are FORCED to ASK QUESTIONS WHEN YOU JOIN. Ask "are mobtraps allowed". If a yes answer back to the forums right? Is that so hard? People are just lazy and instead of bothering to read the rules on the server thread or at SPAWN they just join up and start building then cry bloody murder when the rules they forgot to read allow imbalance or pvp/grief.
Is griefing ok then? It is indeed an intended feature of the game correct? Removing blocks even if they were placed by others? Since you don't want me comparing mobtraps to intended features what is your opinion on griefing. Should I be forced to leave a server when someone griefs my house and I "rage"? Forget that I could've read the rules and asked questions before mindlessly putting time into it. Forget that important detail please for the sake of your argument and mine. So I'm to understand that intended features should be allowed but things people can build that will make them have an advantage over you (you can always build one too), should be. Cool. I see your logic, things look pretty righteous from your perspective. Mind giving us the IP of your server so anyone who likes to use the intended feature known as griefing can come play nice with you. That's cool with you right? It's intended and there is no balance problems with it so c'mon you should be all for it. I personally don't like griefing but you sure do make a compelling argument for it!
In the meantime hopefully Notch rewrites this hole game from scratch and puts us "on rails". That sounds like fun right? No balance problems then, that is AWESOME. C'mon everyone lets go tweet notch asking for just that. We'll have fun picking blocks up while we walk in a straight line and place them. I WANT that exact game right now.
Take your own advice because, in this case, you didn't get past the first sentence.
Just waiting for Forge to officially release for 1.13.x to remove unneeded mobs from 1.13, like Phantoms, from the game because, in my gameplay based opinion, they add nothing of value to the game.
Fun fact: Clicking a bed every 30 minutes doesn't make you a better player, it makes you one who clicks a bed every 30 minutes. Wouldn't you rather just mod them out of the game completely?
how is this whole mobspawner xp farm thing "overpowered"? And how does it upset the balance? the balance of what?
Minecraft is a very unpolished and unfinished game, even if it's supposedly getting released tomorrow (it's the 17th my end of the globe). There is no "balance". There is point click for getting blocks and point click for getting mobs dead. And with plenty of that you can get point click kill 100 mobs in one go. There is literally no balance to upset if you make a mobtrap or not.
Were not talking call of duty or starcraft 2 or league of legends here folks. There is no balance to upset
There is only Markus Persson's and Jens Bergstein's vision of what is fair and unfair in the game they are developing, other than that there is nothing to balance out. I can solo 4 creepers with hunger ticking and a stone sword, but on the same page I get gibbed by 1 cave spider in full iron armor and an iron sword with full hp and hunger bar.
Maybe if endermen could build player traps then we'll have some real balance... oh wait.
yeah point and click folks move along now