in order to perform alchemy you need to have penetrated teh nether and killed or collected quite a few things there. The problem here is that this is the climax of difficulty in minecraft and potion utility loses a degree of usefulness as you've already been the dangerous places that would require benefit from you using potions.
Its more about progression. You are challenged in the Nether. Then you discover the key ingredient you need, netherwarts. Then you can farm it and safely explore the rest of the Nether from that point onward
in order to perform alchemy you need to have penetrated teh nether and killed or collected quite a few things there. The problem here is that this is the climax of difficulty in minecraft and potion utility loses a degree of usefulness as you've already been the dangerous places that would require benefit from you using potions.
Create a new challenge. There is no goal or endgame to Minecraft except the one you create for yourself. That is the nature of a "sandbox" game.
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Personally I would like to see some alchemy earlier on in the game.
I think it really would have been a bit better in stages,
The cauldron starts you out with simple potions with some negative effects applied to them.
The Brew stand lets you create more powerful potions with lessened negative effects.
Some other Alchemic device allows you to create even more powerful potions with no negative effects.
I guess there really is nothing preventing a player from rushing into the Nether and gathering Netherwart & a blaze rod so they have potions earlier in the game but ...
but it is a new system and who knows how it will change (hopefully for the better) as it is added to.
Edit:
Actually what I would really like to see happen with alchemy is for it to get a plethora of tools that can be chained together once you have a working potion recipe that you know you are going to want to make in quantity. Then after you have the complexity of the toolchain out of the way it becomes as simple as ingredients in, vat of potion out (given enough time) with a byproduct here or there that might be waste or might end up as part of the input for another toolchain to make a totally different potion.
I have to actually agree with OP. Progression wise, Alchemy comes in rather late. Especially now that there isn't anymore instant healing outside of it.
Granted, you can argue you don't need instant healing with the hunger meter, but that also makes it considerably more difficult to explore places which have mobspawners as well. And as for mid-point well.. There hasn't been any new gear or anything really in the game that affects how you play it outside of the Potions and Enchantment. Both of which are the last things you'll get currently.
Honestly, it does seem like they come a wee bit late.
I'm a little frustrated by the fact that your forced to go to the nether in order to perform alchemy. I hate the nether and I never play there. So I guess It means I'll never be able to create potions. Sigh
...
I can definitely see the appeal in making fancy potions with flowers straight from hell. so doit how terraria does it. Alchemy in terraria permeates every facet of the game. ...
Yeah, 'cause being original is stupid. He should do everything the way <other game> did it, so I can play Minecraft and imagine I'm just playing <other game>.
...
it shouldn't require anything more than iron and water to get started. requiring netherwart is ****ing absurd.
...
'Cause all I have to do in real life is shake water in a bottle and put it on my iron stand to make a potion. Why can't i just punch a tree and have potions fall on my head. Requiring ingredients and prerequisite technology is stupid.
[/sarcasm
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Yeah, 'cause being original is stupid. He should do everything the way <other game> did it, so I can play Minecraft and imagine I'm just playing <other game>.
'Cause all I have to do in real life is shake water in a bottle and put it on my iron stand to make a potion. Why can't i just punch a tree and have potions fall on my head. Requiring ingredients and prerequisite technology is stupid.
[/sarcasm
I can see both of the points you guys make. The problem is, alchemy in the real life never started in a "nether". So lets get real about that here. So I can understand his point because of that. But I can understand your point in that this is a game.
So it should be balanced.
It should be that you can make SOME potions in either world based on different elements. Not just one that you can make different potions with different elements only if you get one plant from the nether first.
Wow defensive much? Its not really a matter of doing it like another game. It should be about balancing and accessibility. The concerns raised are valid ones. There isn't an actual reason to not have it made earlier in the game to allow for lower tier potions to be made. Then, allow for later more powerful tier potions to be made requiring harder to obtain ingredients. It allows for better progression and is better game design to put it simply.
Yeah, 'cause being original is stupid. He should do everything the way <other game> did it, so I can play Minecraft and imagine I'm just playing <other game>.
'Cause all I have to do in real life is shake water in a bottle and put it on my iron stand to make a potion. Why can't i just punch a tree and have potions fall on my head. Requiring ingredients and prerequisite technology is stupid.
[/sarcasm]
He meant not requiring a nether wart as a base ingredient first to add other ingredients.
Wow defensive much? Its not really a matter of doing it like another game. It should be about balancing and accessibility. The concerns raised are valid ones. There isn't an actual reason to not have it made earlier in the game to allow for lower tier potions to be made. Then, allow for later more powerful tier potions to be made requiring harder to obtain ingredients. It allows for better progression and is better game design to put it simply.
I agree that there should be some kind of progression on alchemy. Doesn't have to be three tiered. You could just have Overworld potions made with a cauldron and later progress to Nether potions with the blaze rod alchemy stand. Maaaybe have something that improves potion making or adds more ingredients in the Ender.
Now that I think about it, getting alchemy in the Nether might eventually be a midgame thing. The Ender is probably (go go Captain Context Clues!) the realm of the end game stuff, hence Dragons and Endermen who you now kind of need that strength III potion to kill what with their 20 friggin' hearts and all.
Actually, till the new updates, the nether was a place to go to get netherrack for neat fires... alchgemy gives me a good reason to actually explore this helloish thing :wink.gif:
Yeah, fast travel, Glowstone, and Netherrack were the only reasons to bother going there. Now people will want to explore it and gather many other resources. Getting to the Nether will be a technological midpoint, most likely, and the Ender/skyrealm full of Endermen and Enderdragons will require greater survival resources.
Having the prerequisite technology of Diamonds and Obsidian seems like a very low hurdle to Alchemy. Depending on your seed, that could be achieved in less than 1 MC day.
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The problem is that your looking at it like a tool, and not what it seems to be meant as. Instead of looking at potions as something that should be in from the start to add balance, you should look at it from a crafting prospective.
Early Game-
Later- Enchanting Table & Brewing Stand
It's an extension of your ability to create.
At least that's how I see it, since any early game potions made with a stick instead of a blaze rod is probably going to have to inherently carry enough bad effects to make you not use it in the first place.
Plus, The Ender Realm will hopefully be a step above the Nether in terms of difficulty, so that and strongholds are where potions will really become useful.
(snip) The problem is, alchemy in the real life never started in a "nether". So lets get real about that here. (snip)
Are you ****ing kidding me? Real life alchemy is making lead or other less valuable metals into gold, and it didn't work. You mean real life POTIONING, so I will argue that point.
1. Real life potioning isn't NEARLY as effective. Most probably did nothing.
2. Minecraft isn't a hardcore realistic game. You can't hold an entire mountain worth of blocks in your pockets. You can't mine vast tunnels in a matter of minutes. You can't eat zombie flesh. You can't make a bow out of 3 sticks and spiderwebs................ and the list goes on and on.
I'm sick and tired of people whining about how things should be realistic. Yes, it has many realistic aspects, more than most games, but it's not a real life simulator.
Create a new challenge. There is no goal or endgame to Minecraft except the one you create for yourself. That is the nature of a "sandbox" game.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Nether wart growing outside the nether would be really useful though, mainly due to multiplayer.
Latest MC video (forum link): http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/show-your-creation/videos/lets-plays/2390805
I think it really would have been a bit better in stages,
The cauldron starts you out with simple potions with some negative effects applied to them.
The Brew stand lets you create more powerful potions with lessened negative effects.
Some other Alchemic device allows you to create even more powerful potions with no negative effects.
I guess there really is nothing preventing a player from rushing into the Nether and gathering Netherwart & a blaze rod so they have potions earlier in the game but ...
but it is a new system and who knows how it will change (hopefully for the better) as it is added to.
Edit:
Actually what I would really like to see happen with alchemy is for it to get a plethora of tools that can be chained together once you have a working potion recipe that you know you are going to want to make in quantity. Then after you have the complexity of the toolchain out of the way it becomes as simple as ingredients in, vat of potion out (given enough time) with a byproduct here or there that might be waste or might end up as part of the input for another toolchain to make a totally different potion.
Granted, you can argue you don't need instant healing with the hunger meter, but that also makes it considerably more difficult to explore places which have mobspawners as well. And as for mid-point well.. There hasn't been any new gear or anything really in the game that affects how you play it outside of the Potions and Enchantment. Both of which are the last things you'll get currently.
Honestly, it does seem like they come a wee bit late.
Yeah, 'cause being original is stupid. He should do everything the way <other game> did it, so I can play Minecraft and imagine I'm just playing <other game>.
'Cause all I have to do in real life is shake water in a bottle and put it on my iron stand to make a potion. Why can't i just punch a tree and have potions fall on my head. Requiring ingredients and prerequisite technology is stupid.
[/sarcasm
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
I like the progression. Mine to get gear, enchant your gear, go to Nether for potions, hit a stronghold and head to The Ender.
I can see both of the points you guys make. The problem is, alchemy in the real life never started in a "nether". So lets get real about that here. So I can understand his point because of that. But I can understand your point in that this is a game.
So it should be balanced.
It should be that you can make SOME potions in either world based on different elements. Not just one that you can make different potions with different elements only if you get one plant from the nether first.
He meant not requiring a nether wart as a base ingredient first to add other ingredients.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Now that I think about it, getting alchemy in the Nether might eventually be a midgame thing. The Ender is probably (go go Captain Context Clues!) the realm of the end game stuff, hence Dragons and Endermen who you now kind of need that strength III potion to kill what with their 20 friggin' hearts and all.
Yeah, fast travel, Glowstone, and Netherrack were the only reasons to bother going there. Now people will want to explore it and gather many other resources. Getting to the Nether will be a technological midpoint, most likely, and the Ender/skyrealm full of Endermen and Enderdragons will require greater survival resources.
Having the prerequisite technology of Diamonds and Obsidian seems like a very low hurdle to Alchemy. Depending on your seed, that could be achieved in less than 1 MC day.
Terrain Generation Changes: Which biomes and world-building features are most in need of change?
Early Game-
Later- Enchanting Table & Brewing Stand
It's an extension of your ability to create.
At least that's how I see it, since any early game potions made with a stick instead of a blaze rod is probably going to have to inherently carry enough bad effects to make you not use it in the first place.
Plus, The Ender Realm will hopefully be a step above the Nether in terms of difficulty, so that and strongholds are where potions will really become useful.
Are you ****ing kidding me? Real life alchemy is making lead or other less valuable metals into gold, and it didn't work. You mean real life POTIONING, so I will argue that point.
1. Real life potioning isn't NEARLY as effective. Most probably did nothing.
2. Minecraft isn't a hardcore realistic game. You can't hold an entire mountain worth of blocks in your pockets. You can't mine vast tunnels in a matter of minutes. You can't eat zombie flesh. You can't make a bow out of 3 sticks and spiderwebs................ and the list goes on and on.
I'm sick and tired of people whining about how things should be realistic. Yes, it has many realistic aspects, more than most games, but it's not a real life simulator.
I totally agree, it should be a point. NOT required.
Making potions isn't required.