"I'd rather make the game too difficult than too easy"
-Notch
Running along with the very words of Notch in mind, I have a few suggestions for Survival mode that I think should be considered. Some of these ideas have already been tossed around, but I felt it would be best to post a new topic to avoid resurrecting dead threads.
This suggestion pertains to the Alpha version of Survival mode.
WARNING: READING AHEAD
= = = = = = =Hunger and Thirst= = = = = = =
Main point of support: All of these ideas, primarily hunger and thirst, are only present on the Hard difficulty setting.
Many say that their experience of Survival mode would be ruined if they had to constantly leave their mine to get food, as it would convolute the process of building. But remember: building is not the primary goal of this mode, but a benefit of it. Survival is the real goal of the game, and we build structures because it protects us from the environment and its fauna.
The idea partially serves to make farming much more useful, but primarily to bring in other survival elements to challenge players. This way people who enjoy Survival as it is now can still enjoy its current form by playing on normal difficulty, and those wanting a more engaging/challenging/realistic/torturous experience of survival can play on the Hard difficulty. Everybody can have the experience they desire.
Furthermore, the game mode is called survival, and as such I think hunger and thirst would complete the list of fundamental necessities for survival.
-Food
-Water
-Medicine
-Shelter
- - - -How Hunger and Thirst (Could) Work- - - -
Hunger would be represented with 10 miniature bread icons located above the health. [The air/bubble bar would be moved up above it]
Thirst would be represented with 10 miniature water-droplet icons located above armor.
1 point of hunger is lost per day, assuming the player takes no actions.
1.5 points of thirst are lost per day, assuming the player takes no actions.
Beyond that, hunger and thirst degrade in a manner similar to tool usage. In this case a "use" is considered to be any action the player takes within the world. Moving 1 tile. Jumping. Swinging a tool. Placing a block.
Any actions taken in the inventory would have no effect on sustenance degradation. Just how many "uses" are within a point of hunger and thirst, I leave to Notch.
[It has also crossed my mind that this would inhibit the rate of griefing, as they would need to spend time and effort sustaining themselves]
- - - -Effects of Starvation and Dehydration- - - -
Starvation would take effect when the player has 5 points of hunger. Dehydration would take effect when the player has 7 points of thirst.
If you are only affected by one of these, you will have the following symptoms:
-Slow movement speed
-Slow use of tools
-Slow rate of healing (from resting, which is discussed in the next segment)
If you are suffering from both of these, you will have the following symptoms:
-(Even) Slower movement speed, staggered footsteps
-Slower use of tools
-Slower rate of healing
-Hallucinations [blurred vision, flowers might look like pieces of pork, some tiles look like water until you approach them, friendly mobs might appear as hostile ones and vice versa until approached, hearing the sounds of friendly/enemy mobs]
-[Other effects? There's room for ideas]
If your Hunger or Thirst reach zero points, you die
- - - -Other Ideas to Compliment Hunger and Thirst- - - -
First off, a simple one: make sunlight distinguished from any other source of light, such that plant-life will only grow when it has the proper lighting. Trees should also only yield 2-3 saplings.
You'll see how this kicks in at the end.
Secondly, cut the player-inventory (including item-slots along the bottom) in half.
Healing items would need to be introduced in the form of bandages [made from cotton, silk-string, papyrus] and tonics (discussed further on).
You could also heal from having rest (rest = you are not damaged for 1/2 of the day), regaining somewhere between 1 to 2 hearts per period of rest. Bandages would only serve to increase the effects of rested-healing, and would not grant instantaneous health.
Tonic would grant instantaneous health, and fight/cure different forms of sickness [covered further on, and also with the hope that Notch puts in venomous creatures/plants]
Food items would grant no healing upon the user, and only refill hunger.
Mushroom soup would restore 2 points of hunger.
Cooked pork would restore 1.5 points.
Bread, 1 point.
Uncooked pork, .5 . However, eating uncooked meat would run a chance of contracting sickness.
Water could be contained in a bowl, or in a bucket. Collecting water in a bowl functions the same way as a bucket.
However: a bucket of water would no longer carry a spring of water (or lava, for that matter). Rather, a single pale of water could only take/carry 1/4 of the water contained in a spring (which implies that you need 4 buckets of water to create a single spring).
A bowl would carry the smallest measurable quantity of water .
Drinking the water contained in a bucket restores 2 points of thirst.
Drinking from a bowl restores 1 point of thirst.
If you find water and right-click with your bare-hands, you drink the water in slurps, and recover thirst as you would drinking from a bowl.
Water quality would also be present.
Generally speaking, any body of water that is touching terrain is impure.
You can still drink the water, but you have some percentile chance of becoming sick. Purifying water is as simple as cooking a pale or bowl of water over a fire.
Sickness can be contracted from eating uncooked meat, drinking impure water, being in extreme elements for prolonged periods (desert, tundra), and being attacked by a creature that is either venomous or diseased. It comes in three forms: general-sickness, venom/poison, and disease.
Overcoming general-sickness [from uncooked meat, impure water, or being randomly contracted] would depend on your overall well-being. That is to say, your percentile-chance at overcoming the illness (as well as prevention of contracting it) in each period of rest [half-day] is based on your current health, hunger, and thirst.
Or, put simply as an equation: [( Health + Hunger + Thirst ) / 30 ] x 100 = % Chance of Aversion/Recovery
However, drinking anyTonic will help fight general-sickness.
General-sickness can be spread between any entities within the game (meaning you can catch it from mobs, and other players).
Otherwise, a nice hot bowl of mushroom soup and a night indoors ought to set you straight.
Overcoming venom/poison [from something such as a Spider's bite] is different, in that your percentile-chance of recovery is reduced (the degree of which depends on the poison), such that you must either cure the illness or outlast it. Venoms/Poisons would have a specified duration period for which they last. Some might last a day, some for more. To be reasonable, I'd say the most potent venom/poison would last 10 days.
Some tonics may reduce the venom to a general sickness, another may increase your chance of overcoming it, and a few can outright cure it.
Overcoming disease [from something such as a Zombie's bite] absolutely requires Tonic to cure. There is no percentile-chance of recovery for disease. When I say disease, think of being bitten by a Komodo Dragon [though to be fair, a Komodo Dragon carries disease AND has venom. How vicious is that!].
More so, diseases require the strongest of Tonics to cure. Even then, some of them only reduce the disease to a sickness. Similar to general-sickness, some diseases can be spread between entities within the game, making them extremely dangerous.
General-sickness would cause a loss of 1 Thirst during every period of rest. Venom/Poison would cause a loss of 1 Thirst and 1 Hunger during every period of rest. Disease would cause a loss 1.5 Thirst, 1.5 Hunger, and 1 Health every period of rest. It is possible to be affected by any combination of sicknesses simultaneously
Tonics are remedies which imbue different properties of healing, depending on what they are concocted from. They generally have 3 ingredients of which to combine:
-Purified water (in a bowl)
-A herbal element: flower, sapling, mushroom.
-A mineral element: coal [it's really charcoal that can purify, but this is close enough], red dust. However, a mineral is not necessary to make all tonics, it just makes stronger tonics.
And to save some time and detail, here is a graph illustrating an idea of the effectiveness of tonic combinations.
In the case of the Brown Mushroom and Red Dust tonic, it deals with disease and venom by reducing it to general sickness. Red Mushroom and Red Dust outright cures diseases and venoms.
With all of these things in mind, if you are starved, dehydrated, AND sick you are exhausted, and become immobile. You can do everything except move. At this point though it is likely that if you can't "McGuyver" your way out, or find help from another, you are going to die.
= = = =What does it do for the game?= = = =
This, coupled with the idea of Biomes and Seasons would complete the lego-frontiersman feeling that Minecraft is inclined towards.
-With trees withering in the winter (meaning no saplings) as well as exposed farm-land being covered with snow (meaning no wheat), players will need to judiciously portion their time and resources and how they choose to invest them. Before winter arrives you'd better stock up on food, firewood, and medicine, because all of it will be nigh attainable once the snow starts to come down.
To that degree the usage of coal, red dust, and saplings as resources for health are entirely intentional. It is intended to create a push and pull between general survival, and expansion/construction.
-Exploration becomes a dangerous but necessary endeavor.
-Cooperation among players greatly increases the chances of survival, encouraging people to work with one another. So goes the saying, "Many hands makes a light load."
The End!
Thanks for reading all that text, and if you have any thoughts please share them!
If you have ideas on how to make survival mode be about survival, share'em!
If you see ideas you don't like or think need changing, speak your mind!
Just don't start any unnecessary flaming!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Yeah, this all looks pretty nice, except for the immobilization... I think a movement penalty would be better gameplay wise. You should NEVER immobilize a player unless it's for a very short period of time.
In addition, the system should be rather lenient, so it's not a constant nag to the player while they're moving around.
I have grown to support the idea of hunger in survival hard mode lately, and i've always liked the sickness/poison idea. But one thing I wish to point out is that having hunger AND thirst is, from a game play perspective, redundant. Having two things to monitor and take care of is no more fun than just having one thing, and although it's realistic, I think it would get annoying. In my opinion, hunger is the only element necessary for a hardcore survival game.
I like that mushrooms are used in curing disease, since mushroom and mushroom soup is rather difficult to aquire, compared to pork or wheat. I think that other food types could work well at providing temporary boosts.
The main reason I support hunger is the same reason why I support food spoilage... It forces the player to plan ahead. Building farms is now a necessary part of Survival, and this, if you ask me, is completely appropriate.
(Although food spoilage AND hunger would just be annoying)
You should NEVER immobilize a player unless it's for a very short period of time.
Trust me, if they're dehydrated, starving, AND sick, it will be a short period of time.
Quote from ConflagratedCanine »
In addition, the system should be rather lenient, so it's not a constant nag to the player while they're moving around.
I'd imagine making it something reasonable, like 1 action (swinging a tool, moving a tile, jumping, swimming, etc) being on a 1/1000 scale with consumption. That is, you'd have to perform 1,000 actions before losing 1 thirst and hunger.
But that's something that would really need play-testing to balance appropriately.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Good ideas all around. However, I think we can take it further and add temperature in the mix. On hot days or in hot areas (such as a desert), you should become thirsty more often, and can suffer from heat stroke without water or shade. In the snow, and other extremely cold environments, you need to wear either warm protective clothing, have shelter, or a fire to give you enough warmth so that hypothermia/frostbite don't set in.
...having hunger AND thirst is, from a game play perspective, redundant. Having two things to monitor and take care of is no more fun than just having one thing, and although it's realistic, I think it would get annoying. In my opinion, hunger is the only element necessary for a hardcore survival game.
If anything I'd think that water should get the priority, as even going without it for a single day can be extremely detrimental. But really, like coal and red dust being in tonics, it's a means of forcing the player to make critical survival decisions, especially with a reduction of inventory. It also makes the creation of arable farmland a much more considerable investment, and encourages players to congregate where there is water.
I do get what you're saying though, and the thought of just having a "sustenance" meter is what first crossed my mind, but a lot of dynamics are lost if you reduce it to a single requirement.
Quote from Swingerzetta »
I like that mushrooms are used in curing disease, since mushroom and mushroom soup is rather difficult to aquire, compared to pork or wheat. I think that other food types could work well at providing temporary boosts.
The main reason I support hunger is the same reason why I support food spoilage... It forces the player to plan ahead. Building farms is now a necessary part of Survival, and this, if you ask me, is completely appropriate.
(Although food spoilage AND hunger would just be annoying)
I think food spoilage would be interesting as well. If anything this idea for thirst, hunger, sickness, and spoilage is to step away from the "Behold my glorious and impenetrable self-sustaining fortress" and more towards, "live off the land to survive"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Good ideas all around. However, I think we can take it further and add temperature in the mix. On hot days or in hot areas (such as a desert), you should become thirsty more often, and can suffer from heat stroke without water or shade. In the snow, and other extremely cold environments, you need to wear either warm protective clothing, have shelter, or a fire to give you enough warmth so that hypothermia/frostbite don't set in.
I agree entirely!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Yes, the goal of the game is to survive, however lets really think about this for a second. Could you not enclose yourself from the world by living in a box that contains all your basic necessities? And what shall you do in this box? Survive? Yes, you're surviving. You just won the game. When you really think about it, there is no real set goal in this game. The goal is whatever you want it to be. Maybe its building a huge building, maybe its making minecraft's first telegraph, or maybe its making a 3x3x3 block of diamond blocks. And then, you can always change your goal. Surviving is something to actually make reaching that goal more challenging, and at the same time, more rewarding. To avoid any future confusion, yes, this is only my opinion.
As for the idea,
I think hunger is good, but i think there shouldn't be healing items. Nor should there disease. Or thirst. Hunger should act very simply, going down over time. I don't see much need to overcomplicate. I also would rather have food heal like they always did. I do believe in poison, but it should either slow you down/inflict damage, not make your hunger meter deplete faster. As for thirst, we already have hunger.
And do realize that just because you say it will be only it hard mode, it doesn't mean its ok. This idea changes the game quite much. Changing the difficulty should not change the game you know, but, well, make it harder. I would prefer having a "survival mode" option of some sort rather than have it on hard exclusively. Or just apply it to all difficulties.
I hate games that make me have to eat or recharge my "thirst meter" or whatever; but at the same time, Notch needs to add a reason to leave your 3x3x3 Monster-proof cube.
Right now, there's no way to "win" the game; unless you count Surviving as winning... and in that case, just make a floating base and your set.
I think you're on the right track... I just think we need a reason to leave our fortresses.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I search for something once well known, but long since forgotten.
A simple solution would be to put the basic hunger survival mechanics in Hard difficulty, and the deeply complex thirst-disease-heal-etc in a new Very Hard difficulty.
A simple solution would be to put the basic hunger survival mechanics in Hard difficulty, and the deeply complex thirst-disease-heal-etc in a new Very Hard difficulty.
Best idea in this thread so far. :tongue.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Yes, the goal of the game is to survive, however lets really think about this for a second. Could you not enclose yourself from the world by living in a box that contains all your basic necessities? And what shall you do in this box? Survive? Yes, you're surviving. You just won the game..
That's only for now. I would hope that the mob AI will be improved to actually make strong fortifications necessary and even then, it won't hold forever without constant upkeep. Nothing is unbreakable, and it would be even more awesome if mobs could set wooden structures on fire, use TNT (and not just the creepers exploding), and climb in through nooks and crannies.
Besides, locking yourself in a box with supplies, even with a 100% impenetrable fortress, would still require you to gather more supplies once you run out. Crops can't grow without sunlight (well, not IRL. I don't know about Minecraft), so you would still be required to venture out to gather more supplies unless you wanted to starve to death.
Besides, locking yourself in a box with supplies, even with a 100% impenetrable fortress, would still require you to gather more supplies once you run out.
You could always have fortified walls with an open interior, and a farm inside, like the good'ole medieval days.
But even then, you've got to stock up for winter while sustaining yourself.
Here's hoping Notch puts in flying mobs. :wink.gif:
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Problem is that this discourages exploration and encourages just sitting around in your greenhouse-bunker with a well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The inquisitors were torturing Harry.
First, Ignatius used the rock.
Then Billy asked Harry if he wanted to read his BDSM blog. Harry was so surprised that his pants flew right off. He was wearing women's underpants. The inquisitors were wearing them, too.
Besides, locking yourself in a box with supplies, even with a 100% impenetrable fortress, would still require you to gather more supplies once you run out.
You could always have fortified walls with an open interior, and a farm inside, like the good'ole medieval days.
I would actually really like true survival aspects like this, but only if it was able to be turned on or off as an option for the server. Right now, I'd like having to eat, drink, and sleep to survive, but I could see it being really annoying if I couldn't ever play a game where I didn't.
I like how far in-depth you've gone to explain it, and I think it looks good.
I would actually really like true survival aspects like this, but only if it was able to be turned on or off as an option for the server. Right now, I'd like having to eat, drink, and sleep to survive, but I could see it being really annoying if I couldn't ever play a game where I didn't.
I like how far in-depth you've gone to explain it, and I think it looks good.
That's why I thought it'd be best if such dynamics only took effect at the player's choosing.
Tired of how easy survival mode is right now? Turn it up!
Get tired of that? Turn it back down!
The important thing is that the player gets to choose!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Problem is that this discourages exploration and encourages just sitting around in your greenhouse-bunker with a well.
It does discourage exploration in that the world becomes more dangerous with the risk of hunger, thirst, and sickness.
But to the same degree, it makes it so you have to go out to confront it.
You need to be outside to farm and hunt, or else you may starve.
You need to find or create a reliable source of water, or else you may die of thirst.
You need to explore for tonic supplements, or else you may die of illness.
You need to find a suitable place for shelter, or else you may die from the creatures of the night and the very land itself.
You must brave the dangers of the world to survive!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Professional Underwater Lava-miner.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
-Notch
Running along with the very words of Notch in mind, I have a few suggestions for Survival mode that I think should be considered. Some of these ideas have already been tossed around, but I felt it would be best to post a new topic to avoid resurrecting dead threads.
This suggestion pertains to the Alpha version of Survival mode.
WARNING: READING AHEAD
= = = = = = =Hunger and Thirst= = = = = = =
Main point of support: All of these ideas, primarily hunger and thirst, are only present on the Hard difficulty setting.
Many say that their experience of Survival mode would be ruined if they had to constantly leave their mine to get food, as it would convolute the process of building. But remember: building is not the primary goal of this mode, but a benefit of it. Survival is the real goal of the game, and we build structures because it protects us from the environment and its fauna.
The idea partially serves to make farming much more useful, but primarily to bring in other survival elements to challenge players. This way people who enjoy Survival as it is now can still enjoy its current form by playing on normal difficulty, and those wanting a more engaging/challenging/realistic/torturous experience of survival can play on the Hard difficulty. Everybody can have the experience they desire.
Furthermore, the game mode is called survival, and as such I think hunger and thirst would complete the list of fundamental necessities for survival.
-Food
-Water
-Medicine
-Shelter
- - - -How Hunger and Thirst (Could) Work- - - -
Hunger would be represented with 10 miniature bread icons located above the health. [The air/bubble bar would be moved up above it]
Thirst would be represented with 10 miniature water-droplet icons located above armor.
1 point of hunger is lost per day, assuming the player takes no actions.
1.5 points of thirst are lost per day, assuming the player takes no actions.
Beyond that, hunger and thirst degrade in a manner similar to tool usage. In this case a "use" is considered to be any action the player takes within the world. Moving 1 tile. Jumping. Swinging a tool. Placing a block.
Any actions taken in the inventory would have no effect on sustenance degradation. Just how many "uses" are within a point of hunger and thirst, I leave to Notch.
[It has also crossed my mind that this would inhibit the rate of griefing, as they would need to spend time and effort sustaining themselves]
- - - -Effects of Starvation and Dehydration- - - -
Starvation would take effect when the player has 5 points of hunger.
Dehydration would take effect when the player has 7 points of thirst.
If you are only affected by one of these, you will have the following symptoms:
-Slow movement speed
-Slow use of tools
-Slow rate of healing (from resting, which is discussed in the next segment)
If you are suffering from both of these, you will have the following symptoms:
-(Even) Slower movement speed, staggered footsteps
-Slower use of tools
-Slower rate of healing
-Hallucinations [blurred vision, flowers might look like pieces of pork, some tiles look like water until you approach them, friendly mobs might appear as hostile ones and vice versa until approached, hearing the sounds of friendly/enemy mobs]
-[Other effects? There's room for ideas]
If your Hunger or Thirst reach zero points, you die
- - - -Other Ideas to Compliment Hunger and Thirst- - - -
First off, a simple one: make sunlight distinguished from any other source of light, such that plant-life will only grow when it has the proper lighting. Trees should also only yield 2-3 saplings.
You'll see how this kicks in at the end.
Secondly, cut the player-inventory (including item-slots along the bottom) in half.
Healing items would need to be introduced in the form of bandages [made from cotton, silk-string, papyrus] and tonics (discussed further on).
You could also heal from having rest (rest = you are not damaged for 1/2 of the day), regaining somewhere between 1 to 2 hearts per period of rest. Bandages would only serve to increase the effects of rested-healing, and would not grant instantaneous health.
Tonic would grant instantaneous health, and fight/cure different forms of sickness [covered further on, and also with the hope that Notch puts in venomous creatures/plants]
Food items would grant no healing upon the user, and only refill hunger.
Mushroom soup would restore 2 points of hunger.
Cooked pork would restore 1.5 points.
Bread, 1 point.
Uncooked pork, .5 . However, eating uncooked meat would run a chance of contracting sickness.
Water could be contained in a bowl, or in a bucket. Collecting water in a bowl functions the same way as a bucket.
However: a bucket of water would no longer carry a spring of water (or lava, for that matter). Rather, a single pale of water could only take/carry 1/4 of the water contained in a spring (which implies that you need 4 buckets of water to create a single spring).
A bowl would carry the smallest measurable quantity of water .
Drinking the water contained in a bucket restores 2 points of thirst.
Drinking from a bowl restores 1 point of thirst.
If you find water and right-click with your bare-hands, you drink the water in slurps, and recover thirst as you would drinking from a bowl.
Water quality would also be present.
Generally speaking, any body of water that is touching terrain is impure.
You can still drink the water, but you have some percentile chance of becoming sick.
Purifying water is as simple as cooking a pale or bowl of water over a fire.
Sickness can be contracted from eating uncooked meat, drinking impure water, being in extreme elements for prolonged periods (desert, tundra), and being attacked by a creature that is either venomous or diseased. It comes in three forms: general-sickness, venom/poison, and disease.
Overcoming general-sickness [from uncooked meat, impure water, or being randomly contracted] would depend on your overall well-being. That is to say, your percentile-chance at overcoming the illness (as well as prevention of contracting it) in each period of rest [half-day] is based on your current health, hunger, and thirst.
Or, put simply as an equation: [( Health + Hunger + Thirst ) / 30 ] x 100 = % Chance of Aversion/Recovery
However, drinking any Tonic will help fight general-sickness.
General-sickness can be spread between any entities within the game (meaning you can catch it from mobs, and other players).
Otherwise, a nice hot bowl of mushroom soup and a night indoors ought to set you straight.
Overcoming venom/poison [from something such as a Spider's bite] is different, in that your percentile-chance of recovery is reduced (the degree of which depends on the poison), such that you must either cure the illness or outlast it. Venoms/Poisons would have a specified duration period for which they last. Some might last a day, some for more. To be reasonable, I'd say the most potent venom/poison would last 10 days.
Some tonics may reduce the venom to a general sickness, another may increase your chance of overcoming it, and a few can outright cure it.
Overcoming disease [from something such as a Zombie's bite] absolutely requires Tonic to cure. There is no percentile-chance of recovery for disease. When I say disease, think of being bitten by a Komodo Dragon [though to be fair, a Komodo Dragon carries disease AND has venom. How vicious is that!].
More so, diseases require the strongest of Tonics to cure. Even then, some of them only reduce the disease to a sickness. Similar to general-sickness, some diseases can be spread between entities within the game, making them extremely dangerous.
General-sickness would cause a loss of 1 Thirst during every period of rest.
Venom/Poison would cause a loss of 1 Thirst and 1 Hunger during every period of rest.
Disease would cause a loss 1.5 Thirst, 1.5 Hunger, and 1 Health every period of rest.
It is possible to be affected by any combination of sicknesses simultaneously
Tonics are remedies which imbue different properties of healing, depending on what they are concocted from. They generally have 3 ingredients of which to combine:
-Purified water (in a bowl)
-A herbal element: flower, sapling, mushroom.
-A mineral element: coal [it's really charcoal that can purify, but this is close enough], red dust. However, a mineral is not necessary to make all tonics, it just makes stronger tonics.
And to save some time and detail, here is a graph illustrating an idea of the effectiveness of tonic combinations.
In the case of the Brown Mushroom and Red Dust tonic, it deals with disease and venom by reducing it to general sickness. Red Mushroom and Red Dust outright cures diseases and venoms.
With all of these things in mind, if you are starved, dehydrated, AND sick you are exhausted, and become immobile. You can do everything except move. At this point though it is likely that if you can't "McGuyver" your way out, or find help from another, you are going to die.
= = = =What does it do for the game?= = = =
This, coupled with the idea of Biomes and Seasons would complete the lego-frontiersman feeling that Minecraft is inclined towards.
-With trees withering in the winter (meaning no saplings) as well as exposed farm-land being covered with snow (meaning no wheat), players will need to judiciously portion their time and resources and how they choose to invest them. Before winter arrives you'd better stock up on food, firewood, and medicine, because all of it will be nigh attainable once the snow starts to come down.
To that degree the usage of coal, red dust, and saplings as resources for health are entirely intentional. It is intended to create a push and pull between general survival, and expansion/construction.
-Exploration becomes a dangerous but necessary endeavor.
-Cooperation among players greatly increases the chances of survival, encouraging people to work with one another. So goes the saying, "Many hands makes a light load."
The End!
Thanks for reading all that text, and if you have any thoughts please share them!
If you have ideas on how to make survival mode be about survival, share'em!
If you see ideas you don't like or think need changing, speak your mind!
Just don't start any unnecessary flaming!
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
http://www.minerwars.com/?aid=1032
Yeah, this all looks pretty nice, except for the immobilization... I think a movement penalty would be better gameplay wise. You should NEVER immobilize a player unless it's for a very short period of time.
In addition, the system should be rather lenient, so it's not a constant nag to the player while they're moving around.
I like that mushrooms are used in curing disease, since mushroom and mushroom soup is rather difficult to aquire, compared to pork or wheat. I think that other food types could work well at providing temporary boosts.
The main reason I support hunger is the same reason why I support food spoilage... It forces the player to plan ahead. Building farms is now a necessary part of Survival, and this, if you ask me, is completely appropriate.
(Although food spoilage AND hunger would just be annoying)
Trust me, if they're dehydrated, starving, AND sick, it will be a short period of time.
I'd imagine making it something reasonable, like 1 action (swinging a tool, moving a tile, jumping, swimming, etc) being on a 1/1000 scale with consumption. That is, you'd have to perform 1,000 actions before losing 1 thirst and hunger.
But that's something that would really need play-testing to balance appropriately.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
If anything I'd think that water should get the priority, as even going without it for a single day can be extremely detrimental. But really, like coal and red dust being in tonics, it's a means of forcing the player to make critical survival decisions, especially with a reduction of inventory. It also makes the creation of arable farmland a much more considerable investment, and encourages players to congregate where there is water.
I do get what you're saying though, and the thought of just having a "sustenance" meter is what first crossed my mind, but a lot of dynamics are lost if you reduce it to a single requirement.
I think food spoilage would be interesting as well. If anything this idea for thirst, hunger, sickness, and spoilage is to step away from the "Behold my glorious and impenetrable self-sustaining fortress" and more towards, "live off the land to survive"
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
I agree entirely!
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
Yes, the goal of the game is to survive, however lets really think about this for a second. Could you not enclose yourself from the world by living in a box that contains all your basic necessities? And what shall you do in this box? Survive? Yes, you're surviving. You just won the game. When you really think about it, there is no real set goal in this game. The goal is whatever you want it to be. Maybe its building a huge building, maybe its making minecraft's first telegraph, or maybe its making a 3x3x3 block of diamond blocks. And then, you can always change your goal. Surviving is something to actually make reaching that goal more challenging, and at the same time, more rewarding. To avoid any future confusion, yes, this is only my opinion.
As for the idea,
I think hunger is good, but i think there shouldn't be healing items. Nor should there disease. Or thirst. Hunger should act very simply, going down over time. I don't see much need to overcomplicate. I also would rather have food heal like they always did. I do believe in poison, but it should either slow you down/inflict damage, not make your hunger meter deplete faster. As for thirst, we already have hunger.
And do realize that just because you say it will be only it hard mode, it doesn't mean its ok. This idea changes the game quite much. Changing the difficulty should not change the game you know, but, well, make it harder. I would prefer having a "survival mode" option of some sort rather than have it on hard exclusively. Or just apply it to all difficulties.
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should."
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Right now, there's no way to "win" the game; unless you count Surviving as winning... and in that case, just make a floating base and your set.
I think you're on the right track... I just think we need a reason to leave our fortresses.
In-game name: Gubru
Best idea in this thread so far. :tongue.gif:
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
That's only for now. I would hope that the mob AI will be improved to actually make strong fortifications necessary and even then, it won't hold forever without constant upkeep. Nothing is unbreakable, and it would be even more awesome if mobs could set wooden structures on fire, use TNT (and not just the creepers exploding), and climb in through nooks and crannies.
Besides, locking yourself in a box with supplies, even with a 100% impenetrable fortress, would still require you to gather more supplies once you run out. Crops can't grow without sunlight (well, not IRL. I don't know about Minecraft), so you would still be required to venture out to gather more supplies unless you wanted to starve to death.
You could always have fortified walls with an open interior, and a farm inside, like the good'ole medieval days.
But even then, you've got to stock up for winter while sustaining yourself.
Here's hoping Notch puts in flying mobs. :wink.gif:
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
First, Ignatius used the rock.
Then Billy asked Harry if he wanted to read his BDSM blog. Harry was so surprised that his pants flew right off. He was wearing women's underpants. The inquisitors were wearing them, too.
They realized that they were all men of the lord.
- 30 Hs
Can't spiders climb walls?
I like how far in-depth you've gone to explain it, and I think it looks good.
Currently in MC, no.
But this is also a feature I'd really like to see implemented.
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
That's why I thought it'd be best if such dynamics only took effect at the player's choosing.
Tired of how easy survival mode is right now? Turn it up!
Get tired of that? Turn it back down!
The important thing is that the player gets to choose!
Also a massive mushroom mongler.
It does discourage exploration in that the world becomes more dangerous with the risk of hunger, thirst, and sickness.
But to the same degree, it makes it so you have to go out to confront it.
You need to be outside to farm and hunt, or else you may starve.
You need to find or create a reliable source of water, or else you may die of thirst.
You need to explore for tonic supplements, or else you may die of illness.
You need to find a suitable place for shelter, or else you may die from the creatures of the night and the very land itself.
You must brave the dangers of the world to survive!
Also a massive mushroom mongler.