I don't understand the rampant use of chestprotect. It makes sense on some servers, where the goal is to freebuild and make interesting buildings with other people. But why in survival, or "vanilla", or PVP servers? People should have to hide their chests from other people, just like in real life. By taking that element of fear out of the game, I find that it becomes boring, and essentially a glitchy version of singleplayer. Of course it has its uses; I am mainly complaining that it seems nearly impossible to find a server without it. I want people to try to break into my house and have to fight me with an iron sword. I hope some server admins read this and understand my point. What say you all? Does it improve or worsen the gameplay on survival servers?
It's supposed to prevent griefing, though I agree that it's more fun to try and hide them.
But how does it ruin all the fun from minecraft? Is there really nothing more to it than seeing if there's communal chests? And if you can't steal other people's stuff everything about the game suddenly sucks? Enjoy the good parts, and ignore the fact you can't tell if Joe Player down the street has more diamonds than you.
It's supposed to prevent griefing, though I agree that it's more fun to try and hide them.
But how does it ruin all the fun from minecraft? Is there really nothing more to it than seeing if there's communal chests? And if you can't steal other people's stuff everything about the game suddenly sucks? Enjoy the good parts, and ignore the fact you can't tell if Joe Player down the street has more diamonds than you.
I didn't say it takes all the fun out of it. "Everything about the game" doesn't suddenly suck. I said it removes fun from the game, but not all of it of course. I'm just saying that I wish there were more servers that really were vanilla and had that aspect of player-player conflict about thievery and people could punish criminals and stuff. Basically it makes it impossible to have conflict between players besides griefing which isn't constructive gameplay and nobody likes.
It is because up until yesterday you couldn't defend your chest at all, unless your server was running a pvp dmg mod. You couldn't attack, traps didn't work due to no lava, fall, suffocate(water/sand/gravel), or tnt damage. Furthermore even though notch tried to fix wall hacking, it's still very doable a many different ways, and many players don't know how to protect there chests correctly against wall hacking.
So, once all this is fixed you will be able to protect your chests yourself, and the mod won't be necessary. The question is, will the players be able to take off there training wheels when the time comes? This transition from the current modded (aka "hacked") versions of minecraft we so often see (what I like to call "Hello Kitty Online"), to the future game of minecraft alpha, will be difficult. Players have become dependent on these mods, and I'm afraid for many of them it's too late. Many players are playing a game of "House" on these so called survival servers, which was fine in the games modded form, but the stuff they create and practice building wouldn't last but a few seconds in the real MC world (ie. all wood house, single stone wall castles, no walls protecting towns/crops, ect.). That combined with the fact that they were invincible to all forms of damage has dulled the players skills, and created some terrible habits (ie. unfenced 80 block drop holes in the ground, that players used for fast travel to the bottom of a tower). People are basically playing "Minecraft Classic" with some extra features, not alpha.
I play on a few Pvp servers, some which have little to no rules. I watch players try to build these "carebear" wood houses a few blocks from spawn and then wonder why it was destroyed. Yesterday on another server that is suppose to become a pvp server when pvp is released, I watched admins who could barely function without there mods. Trying to force daytime over and over, complaining they can't see to finish there first house. Yelling at players attacking them saying "when I get my admin status back I'm going to kick you" (on a pvp server lol). Admins begging the server owner to give them diamond tools cause they just can't build with stone tools (Owner gave in and handed out 100's of diamond tools/weapons/armor to the angry mob). One guy built a tower up to the sky and then said "****, how do I get down?!?" I could go on, there are some even funnier stories, but I think I'm going to save them for a thread as I have screen shots of these. Anyway I must run late for dinner!
People who can afford to run servers (and their friends who are the popular folks on those servers) typically have jobs and maybe even families, so they can't spend 18 hours a day guarding their chest with a sword. Hence, the majority of servers are going to have lots of protection scripts up.
You might get lucky and find some cutthroat servers, but there's logic behind their scarcity.
Without chest and zone protection, people can steal and/or destroy your work, therefore depriving you of time taken.
Q.E.D. Chestprotect and zone protection like Cuboid saves time.
Log off or walk away from your storage and your things will get stolen or griefed on a vanilla server. If you're just running around doing basic survival and carrying most of your stuff on your person then this is no big deal - it's part of the game. But some people don't like to play the game that way.
I suppose there's three basic ways to play Minecraft Alpha:
Vanilla a.k.a. Free-For-All PvP basically. Nothing is ever safe except for what you log off with in your inventory.
PvE Anti-grief and anti-theft mods installed, but monsters are still around. This is much like a raiding guild in WoW. People work alone or cooperatively to fight against monsters and do great things, but they don't have to really worry about having to fight each oher.
Creative 2.0 Anti-grief and anti-theft mods installed. No monsters on. Just freebuilding. A creative construction endeavor for lots of people.
If you think stealing from other people and/or destroying their work is fun, then yes Chestprotect and anti-grief mods remove the fun from the game for you. If you want to play that way then play on servers where admins don't use those mods on purpose. Otherwise, if you don't like a way an admin runs his server then you don't have to play there, simple as that.
Couldn't you in theory just lure a creeper near the chest, have in asplode, and then loot the goods inside? Of course, if the chests are explosion proof, the what's stooping a someone from building an indestructible fort out of them? (The secret to getting chests into close proximity is through placing them over water, for those of you who think it can't be done!)
OMFG QQQQQQQQQQQ BORERLANDS REMOVES FUN FROM THE GAME CUZ THEN YOU HIT A WALL AND OMFG..
Oh wait I will just make my own server with my own rules..
Or better yet I will find a server that has my play style.
Nope I will ***** on the forums instead.
You must be a very angry person.
Sad.
Anyways, I get the Op's point. I like chest protect, but it also would be cool to play on an RP server where you do need to hide your **** from thieves. I'm sure there are a few servers out there like that. You just have to look.
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RaepSodaKind of like grape soda, but a little less purple, and a lot more forceful
Chestprotect exists because you need some way to protect your belongings without standing guard over them literally 24/7. People are very fond of making real-world analogies without remembering that in the real work, cities are occupied at all times and someone can't tear your house down in 5 minutes with their bare hands.
Chestprotect exists because you need some way to protect your belongings without standing guard over them literally 24/7. People are very fond of making real-world analogies without remembering that in the real work, cities are occupied at all times and someone can't tear your house down in 5 minutes with their bare hands.
^ This is going in my signature. 'Nuff said.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Voyager I wrote:People are very fond of making real-world analogies without remembering that in the real world, cities are occupied at all times and someone can't tear your house down in 5 minutes with their bare hands.
they can't spend 18 hours a day guarding their chest with a sword
Obviously, in these offline cases you keep valuables on you, and the rest in a hidden chest. When I say hidden I don't mean a secret room, the chest is still exposed to wall hacking. If the room is anywhere close to your home or if the secret room is lite up with torches it will be even easier to find. The simplest way to secure it is to have the chest buried, with blocks on all sides of the chest, flush against it. Also use blocks that are common if your in a cave, (ie. dirt or smoothstone) cobblestone if a dead give away that someone's dug there.
People go on and on, how singleplayer is boring playing by yourself, to see them get on SMP and play solo... Teamwork is key, eventually there will hundreds of people on servers, and assuming the code and servers are up to it, I don't see why not thousands.
A town could have hundreds of players, tall walls that could be protected round the clock. This will make it difficult to dig at the base of a town wall, even more so with cast in place there, or traps.
Climbing over the wall will be even harder, once a guy is spotted stacking blocks a few arrows will knock him back, off his block, and he will fall to his doom.
Then of course, there is the tunnel underneath the castle wall idea. In the medieval times, this was one of the purposes of water moats (very deep), but I have yet to test if it will actually drowned a guy trying to tunnel underneath. The current method I'm testing on my test map, is massive gravel wall sections strategically placed in the ground leading up to the castle. These wall sections are separately wired with redstone, leading to one of the outer wall towers. Digging though these walls disturbs the wiring on top of the gravel, and through a series of redstone torches, gives me the direction there digging from, how close they are to the outer wall, and if there digging at the left side, center, or right side of a wall. The only problem is people using a torch to prop up the gravel, it is tricky though and if there timing is slightly off they'll trigger it. I have found a fix for this, but it more than doubles the time it takes to make the wall sections (sorry, not ready to release that info just yet).
Lastly if they actually breach the outter wall, they will then need to get through inner wall. Then they would need to find the chests, only to come up with trapped decoy chest, after trapped decoy chest. Mastering these types of things would be an absolute nightmare for a thief. This post is long enough so I won't go into detail.
Anyway, that is the kind of gameplay I'm waiting for, just a few more bug fixes and some performance fixes to allow more players per server, and I don't see why it can't be done with some good teamwork.
Log off or walk away from your storage and your things will get stolen or griefed on a vanilla server.
I play mostly on servers with no rules, and working pvp, I have NEVER had a chest stolen, and never had more then very minor griefing take place before they died (only happened cause they can see my name plate through walls and I didn't feel like leading them away from my base). Your simply not taking the proper precautions.
and someone can't tear your house down in 5 minutes with their bare hands.
and they also can't build that same house in one minute...
I don't understand the rampant use of chestprotect. It makes sense on some servers, where the goal is to freebuild and make interesting buildings with other people. But why in survival, or "vanilla", or PVP servers?
Because not everyone likes all their **** getting destroyed.
People should have to hide their chests from other people, just like in real life. By taking that element of fear out of the game, I find that it becomes boring, and essentially a glitchy version of singleplayer. Of course it has its uses; I am mainly complaining that it seems nearly impossible to find a server without it.
Ok for starters. Not everyone plays by the rules. If you have chests in the open that are 'free-rule' even if they are in someones house you will get people griefing. You may think that it's more rp this way but what you don't realize is not everyone is like minded. You will get people going house to house destroying chests, not because they want the materials but for the lulz.
Yes you do get people who respect other peoples **** but remember the flipside of the coin, they are the ones that ruin it. Not chest protect. Chest protect is a way to balance it, you can make public chests on it. Some of my chests are because I don't really care about the stuff in them, just excess. But when was the last time you went to a communal chest with anything apart from either nothing or dirt inside it. People just take it all.
I want people to try to break into my house and have to fight me with an iron sword.
See we could but If I intended to steal from you, I'd do as most thieves do and rob you when YOU ARENT THERE.
Unless you played in a very closed circle of players. This would never ever work.
Or and also, finding hidden chests is simple with a texture edit. So hiding them also not an option.
I do like making communal chests and writing things in them though.
It would be more of a survival if you did have to hide yuor chest. Except if your like me, if i don't see i chest, i destroy the house looking for it.
And any decent server would either have a form of protection on players lots or you would get banned fast for doing such so try doing that on one of those instead of playing on crappy servers.
Most smart people on servers hide chests as chest protection often gets fixed / changed over time and this adds extra protection.
See we could but If I intended to steal from you, I'd do as most thieves do and rob you when YOU ARENT THERE.
Lucky for us, with damage now in, are traps on decoy chests can kill these thieves when WE AREN'T THERE.
Unless you played in a very closed circle of players. This would never ever work.
Did you even read my post, ok, it was long. Anyway I have NEVER had a chest stolen. Hide it.
Or and also, finding hidden chests is simple with a texture edit. So hiding them also not an option.
This was also covered in my post. It IS an option, you just need to protect it against wall hacking I gave one example, and are are MANY other methods.
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Are you joking seeds? Thousands of players? The only type of game that can come even CLOSE to having a 100 players in an area are MMOs without that area lagging like crazy. Hundreds of players on a minecraft server would just be madness, even the most top of the line servers could never handle that without it lagging.
The only reason you don't like chest protect is because you would like to simply be lazy and spend five minutes destroying people's chests. Think logically for just one moment. People who play on a specific server spend HOURS searching for diamonds, gathering materials and building structures and you want to give the ability to simply go and steal 5 hours worth of searching? This is a GAME, it is meant to be enjoyed and not all of us have 24/7 to guard a chest, and let's face it, traps are the epitomy of fail. "Oh no, the chest's trap killed me, *Respawn* now to go loot the chest. SMP servers aren't meant to be surviving against the environment and mobs, not against eachother, PvP is just an optional part of SMP servers, not the focus.
But how does it ruin all the fun from minecraft? Is there really nothing more to it than seeing if there's communal chests? And if you can't steal other people's stuff everything about the game suddenly sucks? Enjoy the good parts, and ignore the fact you can't tell if Joe Player down the street has more diamonds than you.
I didn't say it takes all the fun out of it. "Everything about the game" doesn't suddenly suck. I said it removes fun from the game, but not all of it of course. I'm just saying that I wish there were more servers that really were vanilla and had that aspect of player-player conflict about thievery and people could punish criminals and stuff. Basically it makes it impossible to have conflict between players besides griefing which isn't constructive gameplay and nobody likes.
So, once all this is fixed you will be able to protect your chests yourself, and the mod won't be necessary. The question is, will the players be able to take off there training wheels when the time comes? This transition from the current modded (aka "hacked") versions of minecraft we so often see (what I like to call "Hello Kitty Online"), to the future game of minecraft alpha, will be difficult. Players have become dependent on these mods, and I'm afraid for many of them it's too late. Many players are playing a game of "House" on these so called survival servers, which was fine in the games modded form, but the stuff they create and practice building wouldn't last but a few seconds in the real MC world (ie. all wood house, single stone wall castles, no walls protecting towns/crops, ect.). That combined with the fact that they were invincible to all forms of damage has dulled the players skills, and created some terrible habits (ie. unfenced 80 block drop holes in the ground, that players used for fast travel to the bottom of a tower). People are basically playing "Minecraft Classic" with some extra features, not alpha.
I play on a few Pvp servers, some which have little to no rules. I watch players try to build these "carebear" wood houses a few blocks from spawn and then wonder why it was destroyed. Yesterday on another server that is suppose to become a pvp server when pvp is released, I watched admins who could barely function without there mods. Trying to force daytime over and over, complaining they can't see to finish there first house. Yelling at players attacking them saying "when I get my admin status back I'm going to kick you" (on a pvp server lol). Admins begging the server owner to give them diamond tools cause they just can't build with stone tools (Owner gave in and handed out 100's of diamond tools/weapons/armor to the angry mob). One guy built a tower up to the sky and then said "****, how do I get down?!?" I could go on, there are some even funnier stories, but I think I'm going to save them for a thread as I have screen shots of these. Anyway I must run late for dinner!
-Seeds
You might get lucky and find some cutthroat servers, but there's logic behind their scarcity.
Without chest and zone protection, people can steal and/or destroy your work, therefore depriving you of time taken.
Q.E.D. Chestprotect and zone protection like Cuboid saves time.
Log off or walk away from your storage and your things will get stolen or griefed on a vanilla server. If you're just running around doing basic survival and carrying most of your stuff on your person then this is no big deal - it's part of the game. But some people don't like to play the game that way.
I suppose there's three basic ways to play Minecraft Alpha:
Vanilla a.k.a. Free-For-All PvP basically. Nothing is ever safe except for what you log off with in your inventory.
PvE Anti-grief and anti-theft mods installed, but monsters are still around. This is much like a raiding guild in WoW. People work alone or cooperatively to fight against monsters and do great things, but they don't have to really worry about having to fight each oher.
Creative 2.0 Anti-grief and anti-theft mods installed. No monsters on. Just freebuilding. A creative construction endeavor for lots of people.
If you think stealing from other people and/or destroying their work is fun, then yes Chestprotect and anti-grief mods remove the fun from the game for you. If you want to play that way then play on servers where admins don't use those mods on purpose. Otherwise, if you don't like a way an admin runs his server then you don't have to play there, simple as that.
Oh wait I will just make my own server with my own rules..
Or better yet I will find a server that has my play style.
Nope I will ***** on the forums instead.
Check out my Let's Play Series:
You must be a very angry person.
Sad.
Anyways, I get the Op's point. I like chest protect, but it also would be cool to play on an RP server where you do need to hide your **** from thieves. I'm sure there are a few servers out there like that. You just have to look.
That sounds like it would be a fun mod... chests that can be locked, but broken into.
^ This is going in my signature. 'Nuff said.
Obviously, in these offline cases you keep valuables on you, and the rest in a hidden chest. When I say hidden I don't mean a secret room, the chest is still exposed to wall hacking. If the room is anywhere close to your home or if the secret room is lite up with torches it will be even easier to find. The simplest way to secure it is to have the chest buried, with blocks on all sides of the chest, flush against it. Also use blocks that are common if your in a cave, (ie. dirt or smoothstone) cobblestone if a dead give away that someone's dug there.
People go on and on, how singleplayer is boring playing by yourself, to see them get on SMP and play solo... Teamwork is key, eventually there will hundreds of people on servers, and assuming the code and servers are up to it, I don't see why not thousands.
A town could have hundreds of players, tall walls that could be protected round the clock. This will make it difficult to dig at the base of a town wall, even more so with cast in place there, or traps.
Climbing over the wall will be even harder, once a guy is spotted stacking blocks a few arrows will knock him back, off his block, and he will fall to his doom.
Then of course, there is the tunnel underneath the castle wall idea. In the medieval times, this was one of the purposes of water moats (very deep), but I have yet to test if it will actually drowned a guy trying to tunnel underneath. The current method I'm testing on my test map, is massive gravel wall sections strategically placed in the ground leading up to the castle. These wall sections are separately wired with redstone, leading to one of the outer wall towers. Digging though these walls disturbs the wiring on top of the gravel, and through a series of redstone torches, gives me the direction there digging from, how close they are to the outer wall, and if there digging at the left side, center, or right side of a wall. The only problem is people using a torch to prop up the gravel, it is tricky though and if there timing is slightly off they'll trigger it. I have found a fix for this, but it more than doubles the time it takes to make the wall sections (sorry, not ready to release that info just yet).
Lastly if they actually breach the outter wall, they will then need to get through inner wall. Then they would need to find the chests, only to come up with trapped decoy chest, after trapped decoy chest. Mastering these types of things would be an absolute nightmare for a thief. This post is long enough so I won't go into detail.
Anyway, that is the kind of gameplay I'm waiting for, just a few more bug fixes and some performance fixes to allow more players per server, and I don't see why it can't be done with some good teamwork.
I play mostly on servers with no rules, and working pvp, I have NEVER had a chest stolen, and never had more then very minor griefing take place before they died (only happened cause they can see my name plate through walls and I didn't feel like leading them away from my base). Your simply not taking the proper precautions.
and they also can't build that same house in one minute...
Because not everyone likes all their **** getting destroyed.
Ok for starters. Not everyone plays by the rules. If you have chests in the open that are 'free-rule' even if they are in someones house you will get people griefing. You may think that it's more rp this way but what you don't realize is not everyone is like minded. You will get people going house to house destroying chests, not because they want the materials but for the lulz.
Yes you do get people who respect other peoples **** but remember the flipside of the coin, they are the ones that ruin it. Not chest protect. Chest protect is a way to balance it, you can make public chests on it. Some of my chests are because I don't really care about the stuff in them, just excess. But when was the last time you went to a communal chest with anything apart from either nothing or dirt inside it. People just take it all.
See we could but If I intended to steal from you, I'd do as most thieves do and rob you when YOU ARENT THERE.
Unless you played in a very closed circle of players. This would never ever work.
Or and also, finding hidden chests is simple with a texture edit. So hiding them also not an option.
I do like making communal chests and writing things in them though.
Everytime i log on, i expect to see my warn status go up.
And any decent server would either have a form of protection on players lots or you would get banned fast for doing such so try doing that on one of those instead of playing on crappy servers.
Most smart people on servers hide chests as chest protection often gets fixed / changed over time and this adds extra protection.
Lucky for us, with damage now in, are traps on decoy chests can kill these thieves when WE AREN'T THERE.
Did you even read my post, ok, it was long. Anyway I have NEVER had a chest stolen. Hide it.
This was also covered in my post. It IS an option, you just need to protect it against wall hacking I gave one example, and are are MANY other methods.
The only reason you don't like chest protect is because you would like to simply be lazy and spend five minutes destroying people's chests. Think logically for just one moment. People who play on a specific server spend HOURS searching for diamonds, gathering materials and building structures and you want to give the ability to simply go and steal 5 hours worth of searching? This is a GAME, it is meant to be enjoyed and not all of us have 24/7 to guard a chest, and let's face it, traps are the epitomy of fail. "Oh no, the chest's trap killed me, *Respawn* now to go loot the chest. SMP servers aren't meant to be surviving against the environment and mobs, not against eachother, PvP is just an optional part of SMP servers, not the focus.