I think it should be 3 bonemeal for wheat, stems, and such, 2 for trees and giant mushrooms.
I think 3 would be better than 7, especially when you consider that it takes almost 4 times as much bone meal to grow one wheat plant than it does to grow one full sized tree. >_>
Who's a bully & a jerk? Seems like it might be the person who doesn't put in the blood sweat and tears to make a real farm and insists other allow them to continue with their (most likely unintended) shortcut method. Your stance sounds like a child who doesn't like something being taken away, in this case because the adults didn't think you were using it in the correct way and they get to make the rules. Don't know why you're so hostile toward us because we disagree with you, we aren't the ones who implemented the change, we just don't see the change as such a negative thing. You may think that realism is bunk, but many things in this game are modeled loosely after the real world equivalents.
So I'm a bully by choosing to do things easier? Also why should making a farm be traumatic? (Blood sweat and tears? Wtf? I don't want to play mine-craft to be stressed, I play if for FUN) This is supporting anyone who uses bone meal, while your stance is DIRECTLY against anyone who uses it.
Also there's a million other things I could say need to be implemented for realism, none of which people would like. Here's a few.
Cattle dying without food / water (daily feeding)
Iron ingots needing to be melted down / cast into the shape you want (another step in ANYTHING iron)
All tools having about the same durability due to the handle being cheap wood (Would need re-enforced handles)
Getting hurt requires bedrest
And others.
As you can see I'm pretty sure you guys wouldn't like these, and nether would myself, or many others. But they are realistic! Its like "hardcore" mode in Fallout new vegas : most people don't enjoy it cause it artificially slows things down. And, its completely optional.
Lol, I've only seen you use bad arguments like that.
You guys are complaining about how it was OP. And many others are complaining this is ridiculous, and UN-needed
And those argument WERE used by various people. Look around.
My argument has been if this even effects supporters (most who don't touch it to begin with) And if having food is THAT big of a problem. In my mind, food was meant as pacing, not as a constant problem that needed engineer like work just to solve and get around to MINING.
No ones starving to death. You're taking a dramatic stance trying to prove your point, but the reality is far from that grim.
In areas with no animals / villages this is already a problem. I have already had to dine on rotten flesh for the first day or so, before I get some bones.
But now that first night will easily turn into 2.
And again how is this OP?
saying getting food easy in mine-craft is op is like saying somebody having both arms is OP for a fist fight. You can't really have a fist fight to begin with without them.
In areas with no animals / villages this is already a problem. I have already had to dine on rotten flesh for the first day or so, before I get some bones.
But now that first night will easily turn into 2.
And again how is this OP?
saying getting food easy in mine-craft is op is like saying somebody having both arms is OP for a fist fight. You can't really have a fist fight to begin with without them.
From what I understand, you have stated in this very post that bonemeal is necessary to grow wheat. If I take your words and substitute wheat/bonemeal as appropriate.
"You can't really have wheat to begin with without bonemeal."
The argument is that bonemeal is not a required ingredient to have wheat. Which it isn't.
Here's my confusion on this. Bonemeal is received from skeleton bones. Skeleton bones come from killing skeletons which only appear at night or in caves.
New players are not going to think to hunt down a skeleton because they need wheat.
Why would bonemeal even be considered the "best" way to get food quickly when it's a pretty dangerous avenue? There are much easier ways to get food.
From what I understand, you have stated in this very post that bonemeal is necessary to grow wheat. If I take your words and substitute wheat/bonemeal as appropriate.
"You can't really have wheat to begin with without bonemeal."
The argument is that bonemeal is not a required ingredient to have wheat. Which it isn't.
Here's my confusion on this. Bonemeal is received from skeleton bones. Skeleton bones come from killing skeletons which only appear at night or in caves.
New players are not going to think to hunt down a skeleton because they need wheat.
Why would bonemeal even be considered the "best" way to get food quickly when it's a pretty dangerous avenue? There are much easier ways to get food.
Your putting words in my mouth. I say this because waiting that long for a couple seeds to mature takes to long, unless I want to plant it, then not move till it matures so I don't burn off to much energy.
And again, how is this OP? its food
Your argument is like saying having arms is OP for a fist fight.
Your putting words in my mouth. I say this because waiting that long for a couple seeds to mature takes to long, unless I want to plant it, then not move till it matures so I don't burn off to much energy.
And again, how is this OP? its food
Your argument is like saying having arms is OP for a fist fight.
All these complaints seem based on aesthetics.
I hear your reply and now ask that you actually answer any of the questions I stated in my post.
I also would like to state, that I never claimed it was OP, I claimed it was a ridiculous "first food" dependency.
And again with the fist fight analogy. Arms are required for a fist fight. Bonemeal is not required for wheat.
Please try and make a little sense when posting a reply.
Check the thread entitled "better way to craft bone meal". Its in the second post, and implied in many others.
Also why nerf it if its not overpowered? Isn't that fixing what aint broke?
I know your not cecil, who said that all OTHER things (pork-chops, chicken, beef) should be removed if wheat stays so easy, but besides redstone vets argument about economy plugins I don't see the validity on the idea, since most arguments don't hold much to them other than "I don't like it being this easy".
What is so needed on this, that its WORTH crapping on everyone who uses it?
I like the bone meal change. I always got the feeling that
making things grow instantly was taking somehow the fun out of
the ,farming' part of the game.
(same for trees)
I understand that some people dislike the changes
(some of them just because they dislike -changes- .. All of them)
... well question of playstyle.
Mumbles miner though ... Really? You have troble surviving the
first night ? Surviving ? Seriously?
You might consider playing creative
This isn't the case on all maps, but more than once I've had to survive on zombies because : There was no animals. There was no apple drops. Fishing didn't yield anything (and honestly I hate fishing anyway) or any combination of any of these.
Honestly if you want challenge for food, that's fine, DON'T USE BONE MEAL.
For the rest of us it s on us, since our go to, convenient wheat is now completely gone.
Honestly, you all complain for something you could very easily not use cause you wish to be paced differently.
This is like me claiming diamond armor is OP cause it makes you impervious to surface attacks. That's JUST my opinion, others like it, and I can very easily refuse to use it, without forcing others to have their play style disabled.
I am not talking about other people. You are saying we stated that it is OP, but none of us did. Maybe in another thread some dude said so. but don't say we are stating it's OP because WE didn't...
Then what is your reason for wanting this? It being more realistic?
Honestly I would have no problem this being a world variable (like structures, large biomes, stuff like that) The major issue is without this, my routine for staring a new world would be completely new.
If this was optional via a variable, I would drop the subject entirely. (So long as its not hard / hardcore...Those have always been about combat survival. I mean something that sits besides bonus chest / structures.)
Then what is your reason for wanting this? It being more realistic?
Honestly I would have no problem this being a world variable (like structures, large biomes, stuff like that) The major issue is without this, my routine for staring a new world would be completely new.
If this was optional via a variable, I would drop the subject entirely. (So long as its not hard / hardcore...Those have always been about combat survival. I mean something that sits besides bonus chest / structures.)
It's not worth creating a 'variable' for such a minor thing. It's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. I tell you what, you give me any seed that isn't an ocean spawn and I'll guarantee there is no way I'll starve for three minecraft days without using any wheat at all. And thats with building a shelter and a mine and all the normal things I would do for three days.
I never said I want this either... First you're saying I find 1 bonemeal OP then you say I want 7 bonemeal per wheat... I never said anything like those, so stop saying I did... All I said was: 2-4 bonemeal would be good for wheat, maybe 7 is a bit too much, but I don't really care about bonemeal anyways... Is there any part I say it's too OP for 1 bonemeal or that I want 7 bonemeal per wheat? No.
Alright then. Sorry for missinterpreting you. I suppose I kind of got this way over a few peoples debating method, and dodging questions like ninjas. 2 per wheat I would be fine with, MAYBE 3 (2 making it JUST under full grown) but more than that is still ridiculous.
It's not worth creating a 'variable' for such a minor thing. It's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. I tell you what, you give me any seed that isn't an ocean spawn and I'll guarantee there is no way I'll starve for three minecraft days without using any wheat at all. And thats with building a shelter and a mine and all the normal things I would do for three days.
Dinnerbone himself he didn't see why anyone would want vertical sync, but he added that.
Also
>you give me any seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>any seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>isn't an ocean spawn
>an ocean spawn
Alright then. Sorry for missinterpreting you. I suppose I kind of got this way over a few peoples debating method, and dodging questions like ninjas. 2 per wheat I would be fine with, MAYBE 3 (2 making it JUST under full grown) but more than that is still ridiculous.
Dinnerbone himself he didn't see why anyone would want vertical sync, but he added that.
Also
>you give me any seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>any seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>isn't an ocean spawn
>an ocean spawn
Thanks for making my argument for me =D
Hah! Nice try but you won't get off that easy. For an ocean spawn I will grow wheat, just won't use bonemeal. I'll do it on hardcore.
btw, How many ocean spawn worlds do you currently have? If the answer is one or less then you're just grasping at straws to make your point. If you're some ocean freak who has several, then I'm slightly more sympathetic to your argument.
I think 3 would be better than 7, especially when you consider that it takes almost 4 times as much bone meal to grow one wheat plant than it does to grow one full sized tree. >_>
So I'm a bully by choosing to do things easier? Also why should making a farm be traumatic? (Blood sweat and tears? Wtf? I don't want to play mine-craft to be stressed, I play if for FUN) This is supporting anyone who uses bone meal, while your stance is DIRECTLY against anyone who uses it.
Also there's a million other things I could say need to be implemented for realism, none of which people would like. Here's a few.
Cattle dying without food / water (daily feeding)
Iron ingots needing to be melted down / cast into the shape you want (another step in ANYTHING iron)
All tools having about the same durability due to the handle being cheap wood (Would need re-enforced handles)
Getting hurt requires bedrest
And others.
As you can see I'm pretty sure you guys wouldn't like these, and nether would myself, or many others. But they are realistic! Its like "hardcore" mode in Fallout new vegas : most people don't enjoy it cause it artificially slows things down. And, its completely optional.
You guys are complaining about how it was OP. And many others are complaining this is ridiculous, and UN-needed
And those argument WERE used by various people. Look around.
My argument has been if this even effects supporters (most who don't touch it to begin with) And if having food is THAT big of a problem. In my mind, food was meant as pacing, not as a constant problem that needed engineer like work just to solve and get around to MINING.
This game is mine-craft, not starving simulator.
No ones starving to death. You're taking a dramatic stance trying to prove your point, but the reality is far from that grim.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
In areas with no animals / villages this is already a problem. I have already had to dine on rotten flesh for the first day or so, before I get some bones.
But now that first night will easily turn into 2.
And again how is this OP?
saying getting food easy in mine-craft is op is like saying somebody having both arms is OP for a fist fight. You can't really have a fist fight to begin with without them.
From what I understand, you have stated in this very post that bonemeal is necessary to grow wheat. If I take your words and substitute wheat/bonemeal as appropriate.
"You can't really have wheat to begin with without bonemeal."
The argument is that bonemeal is not a required ingredient to have wheat. Which it isn't.
Here's my confusion on this. Bonemeal is received from skeleton bones. Skeleton bones come from killing skeletons which only appear at night or in caves.
New players are not going to think to hunt down a skeleton because they need wheat.
Why would bonemeal even be considered the "best" way to get food quickly when it's a pretty dangerous avenue? There are much easier ways to get food.
Your putting words in my mouth. I say this because waiting that long for a couple seeds to mature takes to long, unless I want to plant it, then not move till it matures so I don't burn off to much energy.
And again, how is this OP? its food
Your argument is like saying having arms is OP for a fist fight.
All these complaints seem based on aesthetics.
I hear your reply and now ask that you actually answer any of the questions I stated in my post.
I also would like to state, that I never claimed it was OP, I claimed it was a ridiculous "first food" dependency.
And again with the fist fight analogy. Arms are required for a fist fight. Bonemeal is not required for wheat.
Please try and make a little sense when posting a reply.
I meant arms = FOOD, not bone meal.
Having it easily / having lots of it doesn't mean much, but NOT having it does.
I'm seriously hoping this will just be a server option, since there's such rigid / incurable disagreement. This way both parties are happy.
Also why nerf it if its not overpowered? Isn't that fixing what aint broke?
I know your not cecil, who said that all OTHER things (pork-chops, chicken, beef) should be removed if wheat stays so easy, but besides redstone vets argument about economy plugins I don't see the validity on the idea, since most arguments don't hold much to them other than "I don't like it being this easy".
What is so needed on this, that its WORTH crapping on everyone who uses it?
This isn't the case on all maps, but more than once I've had to survive on zombies because : There was no animals. There was no apple drops. Fishing didn't yield anything (and honestly I hate fishing anyway) or any combination of any of these.
Honestly if you want challenge for food, that's fine, DON'T USE BONE MEAL.
For the rest of us it s on us, since our go to, convenient wheat is now completely gone.
Honestly, you all complain for something you could very easily not use cause you wish to be paced differently.
This is like me claiming diamond armor is OP cause it makes you impervious to surface attacks. That's JUST my opinion, others like it, and I can very easily refuse to use it, without forcing others to have their play style disabled.
7 times as many
7 times as many bro. and if you factor in that skeletons are harder, that difficulty is even HIGHER.
I could see if it was twice as many, but higher than that starts getting pretty fricking iffy, since, Again, skeletons fight MUCH harder now.
Then what is your reason for wanting this? It being more realistic?
Honestly I would have no problem this being a world variable (like structures, large biomes, stuff like that) The major issue is without this, my routine for staring a new world would be completely new.
If this was optional via a variable, I would drop the subject entirely. (So long as its not hard / hardcore...Those have always been about combat survival. I mean something that sits besides bonus chest / structures.)
It's not worth creating a 'variable' for such a minor thing. It's not as big a deal as you're making it out to be. I tell you what, you give me any seed that isn't an ocean spawn and I'll guarantee there is no way I'll starve for three minecraft days without using any wheat at all. And thats with building a shelter and a mine and all the normal things I would do for three days.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..
Alright then. Sorry for missinterpreting you. I suppose I kind of got this way over a few peoples debating method, and dodging questions like ninjas. 2 per wheat I would be fine with, MAYBE 3 (2 making it JUST under full grown) but more than that is still ridiculous.
Dinnerbone himself he didn't see why anyone would want vertical sync, but he added that.
Also
>you give me any seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>any seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>seed that isn't an ocean spawn
>isn't an ocean spawn
>an ocean spawn
Thanks for making my argument for me =D
Hah! Nice try but you won't get off that easy. For an ocean spawn I will grow wheat, just won't use bonemeal. I'll do it on hardcore.
btw, How many ocean spawn worlds do you currently have? If the answer is one or less then you're just grasping at straws to make your point. If you're some ocean freak who has several, then I'm slightly more sympathetic to your argument.
by c0yote
I tried it with terrible results. I gave my wife my glasses for a second, a creeper showed up and now my wife is pregnant.
Stupid 3D..