Now you are just acting like an ignorant brat. I mean really, stop. Stop replying with sarcastic comments and start making some actual counterarguments to criticisms.
The point is that the nether needs to be difficult, and it needs to be difficult to get the stuff that you get from the nether. Letting you place water would, as you said, making it easier to farm the nether mobs, which would make it too easy to get those items, hence removing the difficulty of the nether.
In addition, it would allow you to save yourself from fire and lava, making the nether easier even more.
I never realized that if you place an ice cube in a hot area, it balances the temperature in the entire area
I wonder if the same thing happens if I place an ice cube in the stove, or bring it with me into a desert
The power of ice is amazing
Good reply bro. I loled about it because I missexplained (is this a word?). I was really saying that if you have a really cold temperature, and put it in a really hot place, the "neighbourhood" of that place will be cooler than the rest, making water possible. Also, imagine that we are talking about one cubic meter of tundra ice, it can exist for almost a few minutes before evaporating.
Guys, whit your logic, you will also evaporate in the Nether, you are 73.3% water.
Now you are just acting like an ignorant brat. I mean really, stop. Stop replying with sarcastic comments and start making some actual counterarguments to criticisms.
You want counterarguements instead of my usual sarcasm-to-point-out-holes?
Okay!
The point is that the nether needs to be difficult, and it needs to be difficult to get the stuff that you get from the nether. Letting you place water would, as you said, making it easier to farm the nether mobs, which would make it too easy to get those items, hence removing the difficulty of the nether.
The Nether has never been difficult for the player that is established in the Overworld.
When I was a newbie? Yeah, the Nether might as well have given me heart attacks because I couldn't reliably shoot down those Ghasts and it was something I'd rather have never stepped foot in besides for short trips between portals.
Now? Nothing is hard about the Nether besides conquering Blaze spawners without a fire resistance potion. Overworld supplies food, tools and everything else I need to thrive in the Nether. I still make short trips, but that's only because the Nether offers little to me but Glowstone and faster portal travel to get to other places in the Overworld.
That's difficult?
Really?
Like I said before, self-imposed restrictions are not part of the game. You could go ahead and make it as difficult as you want by forcing yourself to use things you could only grow/make in the Nether to survive (Wood tools, chickens, no armor, yadda yadda) but the average player isn't going to do that. All the supplies you need are there in the Overworld and found with ease (and a bit of playtime).
Food.
Tools.
Weapons.
Armor.
Potions.
These all are found in the Overworld and take away the difficulty of the Nether.
On farms... they exist in the Nether regardless of the presence of water or not. Double/Triple Blaze spawner farms are common, Zombie Pigmen farms have been developed, and they are working/have finished designs on Ghast farms.
Once again, that is due to the Nether not being difficult to the established player.
In addition, it would allow you to save yourself from fire and lava, making the nether easier even more.
Depends on how hard it is to obtain the block/item that allows you to place water in the Nether, now dunnit.
I love how half of you guys saying you don't want water in the nether won't even listen to the other side.
If it was hard to get water in the nether, then it would be great, because it would be possible to tame the nether, but you would need some prerequisites. I don't think you should be able to plonk down a bucket of water, but silk touch is difficult to get legitamitely with the current enchanting system.
As for the arguement that it contradicts logic, this game has many illogical things. Creepers? Pigmen? Taming wolves by just feeding them bones? Face it, Minecraft isn't realistic, and if it was there wouldn't even be a nether, because we can't prove there is a such thing as the underworld.
Water in the nether is too much overpower, if you use for netherwart farms and blaze farms...
How is it overpowered to farm netherwart with water when you could do it just as easy with Pistons?
Also, I see no reason to not have Blazes be hurt by water so... (I mean, heck, they're hurt by SNOWBALLS. Why wouldn't they get hurt from water?)
In fact, I don't understand why people are going on about balance issues. If we're going to talk balance, Steve is the most Overpowered thing in the game ever.
The fact is that the nether is supposed to be uninhabitable. You aren't supposed to be able to live there permanently or in comfort. It is supposed to be deadly and inhospitable.
That was the point of the nether. It's an inhospitable wasteland that can't be settled effectively. If we could get water in the nether - regardless of how easy or hard it is to get - we would no longer be in danger of lava or fire as soon as we got the ability to get water in the nether. It would be horridly overpowered, no matter its difficulty in gaining, and would defeat the purpose of the nether being a realm of fire and lava where you can easily die from either.
In fact, I don't understand why people are going on about balance issues. If we're going to talk balance, Steve is the most Overpowered thing in the game ever.
This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard. What about Mario in all of his games? Or Link? Or Kirby?
Why are you so intent on 'taming' the nether? If you make it exactly like the overworld, what's the point? I know this is a sandbox game and people like to do different things, but I really don't understand this. You're going to put all of the associated balance issues aside just so you can decorate the nether and build your mob traps and such...?
The nether is meant to be a totally different, more difficult, world. Yet, there are few inherent differences between it and the overworld. One difference is the inability to place water. The only other (aside from the natural terrain), I believe, is the color of the sky.
No, Thats stupid, no water in nether (nether=hell;hell=fire;fire=no water)
If you could get the water block in your inventory (that would take hax), i would be happy if that would work for the sake of custom maps. For ice or buckets of water, no that shouldn't work.
I'd just like to pop in and mention that you make so many terrible arguments.
Just sayin'
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." §7- Mark Twain
The fact is that the nether is supposed to be uninhabitable. You aren't supposed to be able to live there permanently or in comfort. It is supposed to be deadly and inhospitable.
Too bad it isn't unless you go there without any sort of preparation.
That was the point of the nether. It's an inhospitable wasteland that can't be settled effectively. If we could get water in the nether - regardless of how easy or hard it is to get - we would no longer be in danger of lava or fire as soon as we got the ability to get water in the nether. It would be horridly overpowered, no matter its difficulty in gaining, and would defeat the purpose of the nether being a realm of fire and lava where you can easily die from either.
Same arguments can be made for walls, actually.
Keeping out dem mobs is definitely OP.
After all, isn't this SURVIVAL?
People gotta loosen up 'round here. Lots of people afraid of changing anything in the game that's completely up to change (within reason).
This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard. What about Mario in all of his games? Or Link? Or Kirby?
Thanks for proving my thought process that Single Player games have no balance and are purely for fun.
Why are you so intent on 'taming' the nether? If you make it exactly like the overworld, what's the point? I know this is a sandbox game and people like to do different things, but I really don't understand this. You're going to put all of the associated balance issues aside just so you can decorate the nether and build your mob traps and such...?
This is a question I have to keep on asking that people just keep on avoiding:
WHAT BALANCE ISSUES?
The game HAS no balance.
And I'm intent with 'taming' the Nether because I see no reason why we should not be able to.
The nether is meant to be a totally different, more difficult, world. Yet, there are few inherent differences between it and the overworld. One difference is the inability to place water. The only other (aside from the natural terrain), I believe, is the color of the sky.
Even if we could place water, well after we've molded to the Overworld to our will, how would the Nether not be a more difficult world to live in?
I mean, it's not difficult. But it would still be more difficult than making a living in the Overworld.
Relevant discussion related to the most recent update.
Why should it go in Suggestions?
I'm not saying "we shd ttly hav watr n teh nthr guiz". I want to have a discussion on why Nether water is a bad thing, and why it should be kept out of the game and all I'm getting is a bunch of people who think the Nether is hard.
NO water in the nether. I think there should be a new liquid that acts like water, but will not evaporate in the nether, and can only be found in infinite pool form in Nether Strongholds, while nether lava should be an instantly killing liquid that doesn't have a block form.
NO water in the nether. I think there should be a new liquid that acts like water, but will not evaporate in the nether, and can only be found in infinite pool form in Nether Strongholds, while nether lava should be an instantly killing liquid that doesn't have a block form.
You see, this is something I could easily agree with.
Something that acts like water but isn't exactly water.
But I'd also like for it to be some shade of blue if it's not water.
I never realized that if you place an ice cube in a hot area, it balances the temperature in the entire area
I wonder if the same thing happens if I place an ice cube in the stove, or bring it with me into a desert
The power of ice is amazing
I think what needs to be said here is enough ice and you will balance an area out, so due to the heat and size of the nether maybe a water bucket or ice block would need to be enchanted in some form and possibly it would only last a % of time in the nether due to its intense heat.
Keeping in mind if we threw all the ice from the antarctic into a desert it would in honesty cool the area....but for how long? so many factors to take into place.
It would be really nice to have a working farm in the nether and a way to collect obsidian without needing 20+ buckets or a great deal of patience; but it would unbalance the purpose of the nether greatly.
Just my 2 cents
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If my comment helped at all, or maybe you liked my attitude, please click the little + button on the bottom right to help me raise my reputation on the MC Forums Thnx
The arguments about realism disregard that this is a game where lava turns to obsidian, rock floats in the air, beds explode and carrying thousands of cubic meters of rubble won't hinder you.
Whether or not it makes the game easier in terms of "navigating the terrain" depends on the difficulty in getting it in there. By the time you have silk touch for eg, you've either become a master mob-slayer, or you've become a master mob-farm-builder. Either way, by this time you should find it trivial to traverse the nether, hence water won't make things any "easier" for you (you've probably worked out that fire can be removed with but a click, and lava can be readily bridged). And if after all that time you still somehow find the nether a challenge? ... I'd argue that you deserve a break, though it beats me as to how water will make up for whatever it is you lack.
Whether it makes things easier in dealing with nether mobs... heh. There are four of the things. Zombie pigmen don't attack you unless you attack them, the magma cubes are just pitiful, and I can't imagine any use for water against ghasts. That leaves the blaze, against whom water is lethal - but they only spawn next to certain blocks, making them arguably the easiest nether mob to farm anyway. And for what? Blaze rods are mostly useless after you've acquired a dozen or so (unless you really like swimming in lava - but seriously, I've got hundreds of the things, wish I could make blocks out of them or something), and killing mobs with water doesn't net any experience.
In terms of whether it makes the game easier in terms of "convenience"? Yes, it does - you spend less time wandering pointlessly back and forth between areas if you can build outposts where you intend to hang out. Should there be less time spent on chores you've performed a million times before? I would say so.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't have to perform chores in the game. It only makes it sweeter when you transcend the need to do so. But if you lack a means to overcome your limitations, then that's an opportunity wasted.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You're just jealous 'cause the voices only talk to me
You guys that want it: Your arguments are extremely retarded, I (probably as many others) have not seen a single reason why would you like to put water in nether except the huge obisidian farms and monster spawners, and I don't want those obsidian farms on my server.
I could say the same for those who don't want it, really. It all boils down to a case of "I want it" versus "I don't want it" and we all should know how there are always tons "I don't want it"s (and tons of "the game is fine as is"es) when it comes to changing any part of the game.
If the ability to put water in the Nether legitimately, we'll all just learn to deal with it and use it like when Pistons came out. Or you could hide in a little hidey hole and pretend it never came to be.
If it doesn't get added, people who enjoyed water in the Nether will never be able to replicate it and will still want it back, regardless of how vocal they are.
It really would be a nice addition to the game in my opinion.
Oh, and those giant obsidian farms won't be that efficient, really. Sure, you could make all that obsidian but the second it breaks, it falls into the lava underneath soooo...
Legitly? Nah. We probably shouldn't beable to place or get water into the Nether. But in say Creative mode or using TooManyItems or using an inventory editor to get a source block then... sure why not.
PersonallyI don't care one way or another. Although I suppose I always did want to create a park like area with a fountain in the Nether under a glass dome. lol
Now you are just acting like an ignorant brat. I mean really, stop. Stop replying with sarcastic comments and start making some actual counterarguments to criticisms.
The point is that the nether needs to be difficult, and it needs to be difficult to get the stuff that you get from the nether. Letting you place water would, as you said, making it easier to farm the nether mobs, which would make it too easy to get those items, hence removing the difficulty of the nether.
In addition, it would allow you to save yourself from fire and lava, making the nether easier even more.
Good reply bro. I loled about it because I missexplained (is this a word?). I was really saying that if you have a really cold temperature, and put it in a really hot place, the "neighbourhood" of that place will be cooler than the rest, making water possible. Also, imagine that we are talking about one cubic meter of tundra ice, it can exist for almost a few minutes before evaporating.
Guys, whit your logic, you will also evaporate in the Nether, you are 73.3% water.
I said a way to get water legitimately into the Nether.
I did not clarify on how easy or difficult the way should be, but I said that there should be a way.
This could mean anything from Silk Touching a new kind of rare ice block, or finding a rare substance in a yet-unmade realm.
A way.
A legitimate way.
You want counterarguements instead of my usual sarcasm-to-point-out-holes?
Okay!
The Nether has never been difficult for the player that is established in the Overworld.
When I was a newbie? Yeah, the Nether might as well have given me heart attacks because I couldn't reliably shoot down those Ghasts and it was something I'd rather have never stepped foot in besides for short trips between portals.
Now? Nothing is hard about the Nether besides conquering Blaze spawners without a fire resistance potion. Overworld supplies food, tools and everything else I need to thrive in the Nether. I still make short trips, but that's only because the Nether offers little to me but Glowstone and faster portal travel to get to other places in the Overworld.
That's difficult?
Really?
Like I said before, self-imposed restrictions are not part of the game. You could go ahead and make it as difficult as you want by forcing yourself to use things you could only grow/make in the Nether to survive (Wood tools, chickens, no armor, yadda yadda) but the average player isn't going to do that. All the supplies you need are there in the Overworld and found with ease (and a bit of playtime).
Food.
Tools.
Weapons.
Armor.
Potions.
These all are found in the Overworld and take away the difficulty of the Nether.
On farms... they exist in the Nether regardless of the presence of water or not. Double/Triple Blaze spawner farms are common, Zombie Pigmen farms have been developed, and they are working/have finished designs on Ghast farms.
Once again, that is due to the Nether not being difficult to the established player.
Depends on how hard it is to obtain the block/item that allows you to place water in the Nether, now dunnit.
If it was hard to get water in the nether, then it would be great, because it would be possible to tame the nether, but you would need some prerequisites. I don't think you should be able to plonk down a bucket of water, but silk touch is difficult to get legitamitely with the current enchanting system.
As for the arguement that it contradicts logic, this game has many illogical things. Creepers? Pigmen? Taming wolves by just feeding them bones? Face it, Minecraft isn't realistic, and if it was there wouldn't even be a nether, because we can't prove there is a such thing as the underworld.
Star Trek DS9 and Doctor Who FTW.
Also, I see no reason to not have Blazes be hurt by water so... (I mean, heck, they're hurt by SNOWBALLS. Why wouldn't they get hurt from water?)
In fact, I don't understand why people are going on about balance issues. If we're going to talk balance, Steve is the most Overpowered thing in the game ever.
That was the point of the nether. It's an inhospitable wasteland that can't be settled effectively. If we could get water in the nether - regardless of how easy or hard it is to get - we would no longer be in danger of lava or fire as soon as we got the ability to get water in the nether. It would be horridly overpowered, no matter its difficulty in gaining, and would defeat the purpose of the nether being a realm of fire and lava where you can easily die from either.
This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I have ever heard. What about Mario in all of his games? Or Link? Or Kirby?
Why are you so intent on 'taming' the nether? If you make it exactly like the overworld, what's the point? I know this is a sandbox game and people like to do different things, but I really don't understand this. You're going to put all of the associated balance issues aside just so you can decorate the nether and build your mob traps and such...?
The nether is meant to be a totally different, more difficult, world. Yet, there are few inherent differences between it and the overworld. One difference is the inability to place water. The only other (aside from the natural terrain), I believe, is the color of the sky.
If you could get the water block in your inventory (that would take hax), i would be happy if that would work for the sake of custom maps. For ice or buckets of water, no that shouldn't work.
P.S. this should be in suggestions section!
Just sayin'
Same arguments can be made for walls, actually.
Keeping out dem mobs is definitely OP.
After all, isn't this SURVIVAL?
People gotta loosen up 'round here. Lots of people afraid of changing anything in the game that's completely up to change (within reason).
Thanks for proving my thought process that Single Player games have no balance and are purely for fun.
This is a question I have to keep on asking that people just keep on avoiding:
WHAT BALANCE ISSUES?
The game HAS no balance.
And I'm intent with 'taming' the Nether because I see no reason why we should not be able to.
Even if we could place water, well after we've molded to the Overworld to our will, how would the Nether not be a more difficult world to live in?
I mean, it's not difficult. But it would still be more difficult than making a living in the Overworld.
Which also is far from difficult.
Relevant discussion related to the most recent update.
Why should it go in Suggestions?
I'm not saying "we shd ttly hav watr n teh nthr guiz". I want to have a discussion on why Nether water is a bad thing, and why it should be kept out of the game and all I'm getting is a bunch of people who think the Nether is hard.
Which it's not.
Wasn't an argument.
I was just pointing out the logical flaw that ignored the fact that the Nether is already easy because of the Overworld existing.
Something that acts like water but isn't exactly water.
But I'd also like for it to be some shade of blue if it's not water.
I think what needs to be said here is enough ice and you will balance an area out, so due to the heat and size of the nether maybe a water bucket or ice block would need to be enchanted in some form and possibly it would only last a % of time in the nether due to its intense heat.
Keeping in mind if we threw all the ice from the antarctic into a desert it would in honesty cool the area....but for how long? so many factors to take into place.
It would be really nice to have a working farm in the nether and a way to collect obsidian without needing 20+ buckets or a great deal of patience; but it would unbalance the purpose of the nether greatly.
Just my 2 cents
Whether or not it makes the game easier in terms of "navigating the terrain" depends on the difficulty in getting it in there. By the time you have silk touch for eg, you've either become a master mob-slayer, or you've become a master mob-farm-builder. Either way, by this time you should find it trivial to traverse the nether, hence water won't make things any "easier" for you (you've probably worked out that fire can be removed with but a click, and lava can be readily bridged). And if after all that time you still somehow find the nether a challenge? ... I'd argue that you deserve a break, though it beats me as to how water will make up for whatever it is you lack.
Whether it makes things easier in dealing with nether mobs... heh. There are four of the things. Zombie pigmen don't attack you unless you attack them, the magma cubes are just pitiful, and I can't imagine any use for water against ghasts. That leaves the blaze, against whom water is lethal - but they only spawn next to certain blocks, making them arguably the easiest nether mob to farm anyway. And for what? Blaze rods are mostly useless after you've acquired a dozen or so (unless you really like swimming in lava - but seriously, I've got hundreds of the things, wish I could make blocks out of them or something), and killing mobs with water doesn't net any experience.
In terms of whether it makes the game easier in terms of "convenience"? Yes, it does - you spend less time wandering pointlessly back and forth between areas if you can build outposts where you intend to hang out. Should there be less time spent on chores you've performed a million times before? I would say so.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you shouldn't have to perform chores in the game. It only makes it sweeter when you transcend the need to do so. But if you lack a means to overcome your limitations, then that's an opportunity wasted.
If the ability to put water in the Nether legitimately, we'll all just learn to deal with it and use it like when Pistons came out. Or you could hide in a little hidey hole and pretend it never came to be.
If it doesn't get added, people who enjoyed water in the Nether will never be able to replicate it and will still want it back, regardless of how vocal they are.
It really would be a nice addition to the game in my opinion.
Oh, and those giant obsidian farms won't be that efficient, really. Sure, you could make all that obsidian but the second it breaks, it falls into the lava underneath soooo... All plants should burn down to ashes too because of the heat.
Oh, wait.
PersonallyI don't care one way or another. Although I suppose I always did want to create a park like area with a fountain in the Nether under a glass dome. lol