Anyway, I agree that they could make it easier, and it would be great if there was more proper documentation than just random tutorials, but then the people making Forge are doing it in their spare time for free, so maybe we could cut them a little slack, eh?
No.
How long has Forge been around now? It's stuck around long enough that it's crowded out the other API setups, and become the standard expected of modders. And yet its documentation is rubbish. So you're expected to use this counter-intuitive tool because it's the only thing people will accept, and nobody's bothering to put the time in to actually make it intelligible? Worse, they sit on their hands the entire time MCP updates each time, and while waiting to tweak their own code they never bother to put some of this idle time towards making what they do readable to the people they want reading it.
The reason I look forward to the actual API, regardless of how much worse it could be, is that it will have instructions. Somebody will put up a stinking page on the wiki, if nothing else, and because people try to keep the game's actual site updated we'll get to see how you're supposed to use the darned thing.
Right now, I'm waiting for the API. I've wanted to mod for months now, but I've looked at the chore of setting up the requisite workspace for 'acceptable' modding and laughed at the absurdity. "Go get MCP - no, wait quietly for it to update and then get it. Now to actually install this, you need to get the JDK, but we're terribly vague as to which version of that you need... If you get past this silliness, you need to get Eclipse, because everybody assumes you're using that tool, and install that properly for use with Minecraft... Now get Forge - it's easy, honest... Then all you have to do is learn how to use all of these disparate bits of software, plus whatever was smuggled along with them, properly..."
That's your development environment's setup? You really think people want to hop through those hoops and hope they stumble across the right instructions each step of the way when there's not even a solid setup guide for this mess? Cut them some slack? The modding community needs somebody to grab it by its collective shoulders and shake some sense into it. Here's hoping the API comes with a crude development kit alongside, and these handfuls of sad "it kinda works for me" solutions get shoved aside by people using something official.
I find it a bit hard to believe it took you several days to figure out how to setup Forge with 1.7, especially since the gradle system was introduced in 1.6. You just have to do is download forge and run gradle.bat setupdevworkspace eclipse and your entire environment was setup. A single command to install everything does not sound like a harder install process.
As a matter of fact, no, that didn't work and I had to do something else. *And* there were at least two other things I had to do to get what I actually did - which is very similar - to work. And the fact that you're even supposed to do that - or in my case something very similar - required some research because, as I said, no readme. And, as King Korihor surmised, I don't actually use Eclipse, so I had some more to do after that. It wasn't all installing Forge, to be fair; installing Gradle took some work as well.
Oh, BTW, do you know where I can submit deobfuscations? That's not obvious either, and it doesn't google well.
I don't want to rag on the Forge folks too much - it *is* an impressive project and I appreciate their work on it. But it's not easy to install, and frankly, a newbie programmer almost certainly wouldn't be able to do it. Which is kind of a pity, because Minecraft modding would be a great gateway for kids to pick up programming.
Right now, I'm waiting for the API. I've wanted to mod for months now, but I've looked at the chore of setting up the requisite workspace for 'acceptable' modding and laughed at the absurdity. "Go get MCP - no, wait quietly for it to update and then get it. Now to actually install this, you need to get the JDK, but we're terribly vague as to which version of that you need... If you get past this silliness, you need to get Eclipse, because everybody assumes you're using that tool, and install that properly for use with Minecraft... Now get Forge - it's easy, honest... Then all you have to do is learn how to use all of these disparate bits of software, plus whatever was smuggled along with them, properly..."
I treated the whole process as one of those old-timey text puzzle games. Get MCP one day, JDK another, Eclipse another, Gradle another, Forge another, setup another, and re-install the one you did wrong another day. If you get stuck, stop and come back when your brain coughs up another thing to try. Each successful installation is a reward to keep going. I'm a long-time Java programmer, so I did get to skip a couple of those steps.
1.7 Forge lets you skip the MCP installation and that's a help - although I did waste some time trying to download MCP itself first because I wanted to look at the code and see how deobfuscation was coming along.
Oh, BTW, do you know where I can submit deobfuscations? That's not obvious either, and it doesn't google well.
You can submit new changes to the deobfuscation database for MCP with the IRC bot. I've done a few of them as I've found a few items here and there, but I'll admit it is a real pain in the behind and definitely not obvious nor documented very well. A web form submission process would definitely be much easier to use.
It seems like the entire MCP community sort of has a huge filtering process that deliberately makes it complicated for anybody to help or even use their tools, and a sort of "I don't give a damn" attitude towards trying to help anybody get started with mod development. It is a very steep learning curve in terms of trying to get into mod development where you are expected to know a whole lot even before you start.
It is also this same attitude that the Forge team has, which doesn't take kindly to any sort of criticism and openly rejects with a very snotty attitude toward any changes or tweaks. If this is what the official API becomes in terms of people using it and Mojang's attitude toward new mod/plug-in developers they might as well not bother with the API for that matter.
What should happen is for a standard Java compiler (there are several) to be able to import the Java API prototypes and no need for anything like MCP or other jury rigged tools. A simple compile and dropping the compiled jar file (with new textures in the jar file) for any extensions to Minecraft is all it should take. We are a long way from seeing that happen and it doesn't seem to even be remotely a goal at the moment.
I won't deny the usefulness of both MCP and Forge, but I wholeheartedly agree that their communities in general have very arrogant attitudes towards things.
Is Mojang splitting modder community.
We are near end of june 2014. No real new release with promised api. Only bukkit seams have background info for making mods for the server release 1.79
All other modder seams hold back for better futur mod management for single player.
MC1.8 is not comming before autum or next minecon because to many bugs and unfinished work on api.
For me all the new management of Mojang sound like make lot of money with useless thing, like server gimiks for kids with money , and keep modders away from Minecraft.
Makking money on other plarform just for young kids is more important than continuing the original PC release.
How many talented modder will come back after more than a year?
We will surely have to wait 1 or 2 years more before real new good mods will be avaible again and new modder are good enough.
And then we probably will have to pay for the mods in the futur.
Old modding dead untils new modder generation ? Shure as far i can see.
We will surely have to wait 1 or 2 years more before real new good mods will be avaible again and new modder are good enough.
And then we probably will have to pay for the mods in the futur.
Old modding dead untils new modder generation ? Shure as far i can see.
While this is zombivying an old thread, the topic is still relevant as modding is still very much in the past and dying a very painful death. Unlike what was claimed above, MCP is also definitely dead, or at least stuck on 1.7.2 and no reasonable expectation that it will ever be updated to 1.8 whenever Mojang starts to release that content. Heck, I doubt MCP will even be updated to any other version of 1.7 either. Patience doesn't hold a candle here.
This is not a very good situation for Mojang, so far as staying fresh with the current version of the game. Gone are the days where an update would happen and the 3rd party API libraries would be updated in mere hours, or at least no more than a weekend and gradually refined over the course of a month or so to pretty good stability.
New leaders can show up and take over the development process, but until that happens, modding is pretty much dead. Some cool ideas are being tried with the old tools, but they are rapidly losing relevance and make a mockery of what was once upon a time a very vibrant modding community.
Modding wouldn't be dead because of a insignificant reason.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
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No.
How long has Forge been around now? It's stuck around long enough that it's crowded out the other API setups, and become the standard expected of modders. And yet its documentation is rubbish. So you're expected to use this counter-intuitive tool because it's the only thing people will accept, and nobody's bothering to put the time in to actually make it intelligible? Worse, they sit on their hands the entire time MCP updates each time, and while waiting to tweak their own code they never bother to put some of this idle time towards making what they do readable to the people they want reading it.
The reason I look forward to the actual API, regardless of how much worse it could be, is that it will have instructions. Somebody will put up a stinking page on the wiki, if nothing else, and because people try to keep the game's actual site updated we'll get to see how you're supposed to use the darned thing.
Right now, I'm waiting for the API. I've wanted to mod for months now, but I've looked at the chore of setting up the requisite workspace for 'acceptable' modding and laughed at the absurdity. "Go get MCP - no, wait quietly for it to update and then get it. Now to actually install this, you need to get the JDK, but we're terribly vague as to which version of that you need... If you get past this silliness, you need to get Eclipse, because everybody assumes you're using that tool, and install that properly for use with Minecraft... Now get Forge - it's easy, honest... Then all you have to do is learn how to use all of these disparate bits of software, plus whatever was smuggled along with them, properly..."
That's your development environment's setup? You really think people want to hop through those hoops and hope they stumble across the right instructions each step of the way when there's not even a solid setup guide for this mess? Cut them some slack? The modding community needs somebody to grab it by its collective shoulders and shake some sense into it. Here's hoping the API comes with a crude development kit alongside, and these handfuls of sad "it kinda works for me" solutions get shoved aside by people using something official.
As a matter of fact, no, that didn't work and I had to do something else. *And* there were at least two other things I had to do to get what I actually did - which is very similar - to work. And the fact that you're even supposed to do that - or in my case something very similar - required some research because, as I said, no readme. And, as King Korihor surmised, I don't actually use Eclipse, so I had some more to do after that. It wasn't all installing Forge, to be fair; installing Gradle took some work as well.
Oh, BTW, do you know where I can submit deobfuscations? That's not obvious either, and it doesn't google well.
I don't want to rag on the Forge folks too much - it *is* an impressive project and I appreciate their work on it. But it's not easy to install, and frankly, a newbie programmer almost certainly wouldn't be able to do it. Which is kind of a pity, because Minecraft modding would be a great gateway for kids to pick up programming.
I treated the whole process as one of those old-timey text puzzle games. Get MCP one day, JDK another, Eclipse another, Gradle another, Forge another, setup another, and re-install the one you did wrong another day. If you get stuck, stop and come back when your brain coughs up another thing to try. Each successful installation is a reward to keep going. I'm a long-time Java programmer, so I did get to skip a couple of those steps.
1.7 Forge lets you skip the MCP installation and that's a help - although I did waste some time trying to download MCP itself first because I wanted to look at the code and see how deobfuscation was coming along.
Geographicraft (formerly Climate Control) - Control climate, ocean, and land sizes; stop chunk walls; put modded biomes into Default worlds, and more!
RTG plus - All the beautiful terrain of RTG, plus varied and beautiful trees and forests.
You can submit new changes to the deobfuscation database for MCP with the IRC bot. I've done a few of them as I've found a few items here and there, but I'll admit it is a real pain in the behind and definitely not obvious nor documented very well. A web form submission process would definitely be much easier to use.
It seems like the entire MCP community sort of has a huge filtering process that deliberately makes it complicated for anybody to help or even use their tools, and a sort of "I don't give a damn" attitude towards trying to help anybody get started with mod development. It is a very steep learning curve in terms of trying to get into mod development where you are expected to know a whole lot even before you start.
It is also this same attitude that the Forge team has, which doesn't take kindly to any sort of criticism and openly rejects with a very snotty attitude toward any changes or tweaks. If this is what the official API becomes in terms of people using it and Mojang's attitude toward new mod/plug-in developers they might as well not bother with the API for that matter.
What should happen is for a standard Java compiler (there are several) to be able to import the Java API prototypes and no need for anything like MCP or other jury rigged tools. A simple compile and dropping the compiled jar file (with new textures in the jar file) for any extensions to Minecraft is all it should take. We are a long way from seeing that happen and it doesn't seem to even be remotely a goal at the moment.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
I won't deny the usefulness of both MCP and Forge, but I wholeheartedly agree that their communities in general have very arrogant attitudes towards things.
modding tool. i am not a forge fanboy, and if something better came along i would switch to it, but for now ill stick with forge.
We are near end of june 2014. No real new release with promised api. Only bukkit seams have background info for making mods for the server release 1.79
All other modder seams hold back for better futur mod management for single player.
MC1.8 is not comming before autum or next minecon because to many bugs and unfinished work on api.
For me all the new management of Mojang sound like make lot of money with useless thing, like server gimiks for kids with money , and keep modders away from Minecraft.
Makking money on other plarform just for young kids is more important than continuing the original PC release.
How many talented modder will come back after more than a year?
We will surely have to wait 1 or 2 years more before real new good mods will be avaible again and new modder are good enough.
And then we probably will have to pay for the mods in the futur.
Old modding dead untils new modder generation ? Shure as far i can see.
While this is zombivying an old thread, the topic is still relevant as modding is still very much in the past and dying a very painful death. Unlike what was claimed above, MCP is also definitely dead, or at least stuck on 1.7.2 and no reasonable expectation that it will ever be updated to 1.8 whenever Mojang starts to release that content. Heck, I doubt MCP will even be updated to any other version of 1.7 either. Patience doesn't hold a candle here.
This is not a very good situation for Mojang, so far as staying fresh with the current version of the game. Gone are the days where an update would happen and the 3rd party API libraries would be updated in mere hours, or at least no more than a weekend and gradually refined over the course of a month or so to pretty good stability.
New leaders can show up and take over the development process, but until that happens, modding is pretty much dead. Some cool ideas are being tried with the old tools, but they are rapidly losing relevance and make a mockery of what was once upon a time a very vibrant modding community.
Version 2.1 now updated for MC 1.6.2
Newly Spawned: Baby. Out of the Water: Deep-Sea Diver. Tree Puncher: First Fight. Carpenter: Under The Carpet. Stone Miner: Newb. Coal Miner: Just Add Methane. Zombie Killer: Village Protector. Iron Miner: Burnt Hands.
BudderGold Miner: Sky Army Stuck At Home: It's a nightmare Redstone Miner: Electrician. Diamond Miner: I'm rich! Lapis Lazuli Collector: Enchanting Time!