if you have ever sold in game items for REAL WORLD money then you violated the TOS EULA between you and the game makers/creators. So you broke the license agreement and are subjedt to the penalties of that violation. All of these "premium" item packages etc. have always been illegal.
Over all, I agree with the EULA. Mojang has (or should have) complete control over there property and how people use it. This includes servers. Just because you run a server on a Minecraft copy, does not mean you are exempt from the EULA. WHICH YOU AGREED TO OBEY when you bought the game, even if it changes.
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If yu kännat ried ðis, Ei fiell bäd for yu. Biekös ðis is whöt English wüld lük leik if wie häd held antu äur Germänik lingwistik ruts. Diel wiþ it.
You are already dancing over that Piracy line by running your server in offline mode. It lets anyone connect even those who have pirated the game.
Another thought to consider is that server hosts will probably update their own terms to reflect Mojang's. So all Mojang might need to do is send a note to the host and have them take your server down. (Obviously this is only an issue if you don't self-host.)
So there are a number of things they can do to discourage most people.
Offline mode does not verify or prove its piracy. I'm talking literally about downloading and using minecraft without paying. The whole, torrenting business. Which offline does not prove, it can be used, but does not prove.
My point is, and with that, I leave the minecraft community because If this succeeds, minecraft will be dead in heartbeat. ( it won't, people will still charge you for what they believe in), that the server you host, where ever you host, is fully under your control. If you chose a public host, yes they will follow mojang like lapdogs, if you host it with your own money, your own dedi box, and service, mojang has no chance except to file a cease and desist order directly against you (this would hurt them more than it hurts you).
Fact is, servers will continue to use ranks, kits, mods, plugins, to charge players to keep themselves alive, is it unfair? Maybe, is it wrong? maybe, is it unethical maybe? You are forgetting one thing, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY ON THAT SERVER. You are still in control of FREE WILL, "Choice". To choose or not to choose to play...
100k servers, you cannot tell me that atleast one server in the world is to your liking...
Alas, I await for my C&D letter from Mojang, Good luck fellow hosters!
PSN:
Can't you read? I said I only play PC Minecraft
Member Details
I...I am lost for words at how people are complaining at how Mojang for being so incredibly lenient with the server owners (most of which are the exact same people who are complaining), and even deciding to change the rules for the jerks that think they are above Mojang since they are hosting a server for the game that Mojang CREATED.
Their rules are fair to everyone, except for the fact that people can charge money to gain entry to the server. That's just kind of an excuse to get people to shell out money to greedy server owners. Still, the rules are pretty fair. If you advertise special things for people who give money to the server (which would be called purchases when people give money for items), then that's not fair to the people who are sensible & won't pay for items.
If people just give money to the server for the sheer fact that they like it, then that is alright. There are no advantages in that system, just people who like the server and give money to it just because they are happy it exists. If your server isn't making enough money to keep it running, then use some of your own money. You had to use your own money to get the server started in the first place, so why can't you use that same money to keep it going?
Before people complain about, "I don't have enough money to keep my server going," remember that you made the decision to buy the game and made the decision to agree to the EULA. You must abide by the rules that Mojang has set in place for most everything that relates to Minecraft. If they say that you can't use Pay-2-Win tactics to get people to purchase items on your server, then you can't use Pay-2-Win tactics. If they say that people can't make money off of their game, then people can't make money off of their game. You didn't help make the game, you didn't work on the code that makes the game run, so why are you entitled to the money that you make off of people purchasing items off of the server that you are renting?
I can charge for anything I want on my server, even if its a wooden sword.
No, you can't. Did you read the post you're replying to? The whole point of the updated EULA is that you can no longer do this. You may have OPINIONS on what you should and should not be able to do, but your statement is flat out wrong.
You need to calm down lad, you can barely understand what I am saying. The property I speak of is the Minecraft copy you bought from Mojang. As stated in my previous post.
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If yu kännat ried ðis, Ei fiell bäd for yu. Biekös ðis is whöt English wüld lük leik if wie häd held antu äur Germänik lingwistik ruts. Diel wiþ it.
Another thing that should be clarified is the pay-to-access option. If you did not notice, THIS AN OPTION, not a obligation. Not all server owners will do this, and the ones that do will likely only do it once per player or once every certain period of time.
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If yu kännat ried ðis, Ei fiell bäd for yu. Biekös ðis is whöt English wüld lük leik if wie häd held antu äur Germänik lingwistik ruts. Diel wiþ it.
You all are overthinking this way too much. They're updating their EULA so they have the legal power to take down the bigger violators of the agreement. Game companies are forced to do this so they can't get torn apart by lawsuits. If they seriously wanted to wipe out all servers that violate the EULA, they could. However, it isn't worth their time, money and man-power to do so.
Good that Mojang finally fights the pay to play concept a majority of servers are using. Hopefully theres enough execution of that new clause so those "servers" get extincted soon enough.
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I will be back in another half year to see how fast a degenerative process on quality will go on... 2nd reason is further corruption of certain individuals on the forums, those individuals are not necessarily "only" "member".
Anyways nothing offensiv on here, and if anythig is "found" it comes from your own immagination. Farewell corruption.
- A close friend to ___MeRliN___
Good. Its just too bad Mojang doesn't restrict this type of monetizing even further. For years its been ruining the community, too little, too late imo.
You need to calm down lad, you can barely understand what I am saying. The property I speak of is the Minecraft copy you bought from Mojang. As stated in my previous post.
I'm pretty calm sir, read my last post: I await my C&D. If I don't get any, its all just hoax. Thus, I continue to run the server as I please and see fit. FYI, minecraft server client is still the exact same size, last date of modification. Not violating any rules.
That 3rd statement is my favorite. I refuse to go on servers where you can buy kits and such. It just ruins the fun when you don't want to spend any money or can't spend any money on a server and someone else buys something and become overpowered if your doing PVP and such. One thing that is cool about MC is how online is free. Why should someone have to pay to be on the same level as someone else? I also like the 2nd statement. I played on a server for quite some time (I've not been on for over a month or two and its closed now), and if you "donated" you would get access to creative and such. I never wanted to spend any money, and pretty much everyone else was in creative and is was so unbearable.
Fact is, servers will continue to use ranks, kits, mods, plugins, to charge players to keep themselves alive, is it unfair? Maybe, is it wrong? maybe, is it unethical maybe? You are forgetting one thing, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY ON THAT SERVER. You are still in control of FREE WILL, "Choice". To choose or not to choose to play...
Except the issue is that most people that play on these servers abide with the pay-to-win systems to the point where they start paying with their moms' credit cards. Tell me now, do you seriously think that Mojang allowing people to PAY TO ENTER a server isn't enough?
If the server hosts REALLY needed the money, then they could have a pay-to-enter system, or a donation system that gives them aesthetics, which would be sufficient to pay the rent if the server is popular. Blocking off players from using specific items and entities is merely a method of whoring money.
I suspect mojangs main reason for all of this is because Realms isn't doing so well, so they want to kill off the regular minecraft servers inorder to make their own grow.
Actually if you followed what they have said about it, it's actually doing better than they anticipated. When they launched it in NA that was some initial concern that they were going to have trouble meeting the demand.
Besides, it's not like realms actually competes with full servers. It's way too limited and restrictive. Never mind that plenty of people (myself included) will continue happily hosting small servers four small communities of players. A server hosted on someone's spare computer in their house is still going to be better than a realms hosted world. (Provided the owner actually knows what they are doing anyway.)
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Tis far better to be a witty fool than a foolish wit.
I'm pretty calm sir, read my last post: I await my C&D. If I don't get any, its all just hoax. Thus, I continue to run the server as I please and see fit. FYI, minecraft server client is still the exact same size, last date of modification. Not violating any rules.
It doesn't matter whether their rules satisfy your or not. You bought the game made by them. They sold it to you. It's their work. If you had at least so much as a minor part in the creation of the game, then maybe you could charge for items, but you can't walk right up to them and tell them how to run their game.
The Meaning of Life, the Universe, and Everything.
Join Date:
5/7/2012
Posts:
63
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To everybody who responds to this thread with "Those packages were always illegal. You were always violating the terms of service.":
This isn't so much a matter of legality as it is morality. The terms of service laid out by the previous EULA definition was incredibly vague. If you'll remember, even Mojang admitted that, and that was the cause of all this fuss. Now, they're refining those terms.
The issue with that is that they allowed that vaguery to control and dictate the means by which the community supported itself. True, in some ways this created the pay-to-win system, and that may be an issue, but to attempt to completely choke out the community based on their own personal beliefs is wrong. Let's talk dirty metaphors:
"You live in a city, which has just passed a new law, stating that sodas are illegal. Of course, nobody takes this serious. It's soda, afterall. We'll just do what we do naturally, and drink it on our own personal whims. As the years go by, the city takes no measures whatsoever in enforcing this law. It allows soda to be sold, and soda ends up becoming incredibly popular. It's sold on every street corner, every restaurant, and even in the back alleyways of the crime-ridden poor districts.
Soda ends up becoming an icon for the city. It attracts tourists to come see the city, who end up flooding the local economy, turning it into a booming soda sight-scene. (That's a doozy, eh?)
All the while, the city does nothing about enforcing the soda law. It actually profits from the lack of enforcement, to the point that soda-related activities become a staple in the everyday lives of the citizens. Things are going swell in soda-ville.
All of a sudden, the city decides that a particular brand of this soda is violating the law. It sends out a massive order of removal for all citrus-using products in the city. The families, those that have chosen to sell their lemony beverages instead of the more popular cocoa bean-using drinks, are now suddenly out of work. Their businesses are foreclosed upon, their mortgages withdrawn, and their children forced to rummage through the dumpsters for food."
While vastly overexaggerated, this has a lot of similarity to our situation with Mojang. The issue doesn't lie in the fact that we've always been breaking the law, but in the fact that the law wasn't enforced, which PROMOTED ITS BEING BROKEN. On top of that, Mojang has profited from this. The ability to sell donation packages as we please has allowed us to run our servers in a business model that's right for us. It's promoted self-growth, and the community has flourished from it. Self-growth is the very core of this community, and without that hands-free attitude we've always seen from Mojang on certain areas, we'll see that growth stifled and put in the ground.
I'm going to clear things up for you people real quick.
Firstly, Mojang does, in fact, have the ability and resources to shut down any server they want, without a cease and desist order or anything of the like. With the switch to the CDR system, they now have the ability to block every Minecraft client from accessing a server IP if they should so desire. All they would have to do is input a check into the launcher protocals at startup so that it will force Minecraft to disconnect from said server's IP if the client attempts to connect. There's no way to avoid it, and no way to change it.
Secondly, Mojang can tell you what you can and cannot do on your server, because it's their server. Even if you host it on your own computer, and run all of your own custom plugins, Mojang still made Minecraft, still owns Minecraft, and the server you're running all of this on..is Minecraft. You're using their product and program, and must abide by the EULA agreed to when you purchased the game or suffer loss of service and play. Any plugin that you write still uses Minecraft's physics and coded program to do what it does, and the same goes for mods. They only have to allow you to do with their property what they feel like letting you do.
Now then, as to those fearing that almost all servers everywhere will be shut down, or that their server is under attack by Mojang changing the EULA, this simply isn't so. Unless you are one of the servers that charges ridiculous amounts for in-game kits, ranks, or currency, you have nothing to worry about. Mojang is only going to target the mega-servers that have caused them months of grief from complaint after complaint about children stealing their parent's credit cards to pay for outrageous server fees, and such like that.
While massive servers like Hypixel and Mineplex may suffer, they don't have to. If they change the way they manage things, stop charging outrageous fees for things in-game, and overall make it so they aren't "pay-to-win," they could survive unscathed. And servers that run things without these issues have nothing to worry about either way. Mojang knows that most server owners keep things fair and balanced on their servers, and make huge efforts to keep their players, and their community as a whole, happy and healthy. They wouldn't make changes to the EULA that killed off what makes the Minecraft community so excellent.
The moral of everything here is that, unless you are charging $850 for a kit for a single mingame (*cough* Mineplex *cough cough*), the changes to the EULA aren't going to affect too much of your gameplay. Minigames don't have to be based on people donating for better items and gear than everyone else, and those servers that don't ruin people's livelihoods with enormous cart options aren't in any trouble. Mojang is just working out a way to act against servers that abuse Minecraft to sap money from people, yet still allow servers to take donations to stay alive and kicking. Things will work out over time, the finer points will be ironed out, and once Mojang has a good hold on how to handle this, the EULA will change to reflect that.
Now then, stop your arguing and worrying, and get back to mining and crafting! There's no reason to let arguing over the EULA ruin the game you love.
The only way this will succeed, is if mojang recodes minecraft with a master-server. This would mean that if your account gets flagged for abusing these rules, they will suspend your ability from hosting a minecraft server on your account. This also means in order to run a server on any machine you need to login to your account.
So basically it will be just like minecraft client.
1. Login, to host server.
2. Check if account is flagged for violations.
3. If not violation, host server.
4. Profit.
ELSE
3. Account flagged for violations.
4. Server disabled for online play, only LAN players can join.
5. YOU LOSE, GOOD DAY SIR.
That is the only way mojang can control servers, which i doubt their team will program. So 100,000 servers will continue to operate and abuse the EULA, which means absolutely crap. I don't see how this will be beneficial to anyone.
If they do that then some one in the comunity will make a launcher such as multi mc and it will bypass that what you have said.
I agree but good luck finding any legality in it hahaa, mojang is picking a very wrong battle
And yes, I am still the Master of Disaster.
Offline mode does not verify or prove its piracy. I'm talking literally about downloading and using minecraft without paying. The whole, torrenting business. Which offline does not prove, it can be used, but does not prove.
My point is, and with that, I leave the minecraft community because If this succeeds, minecraft will be dead in heartbeat. ( it won't, people will still charge you for what they believe in), that the server you host, where ever you host, is fully under your control. If you chose a public host, yes they will follow mojang like lapdogs, if you host it with your own money, your own dedi box, and service, mojang has no chance except to file a cease and desist order directly against you (this would hurt them more than it hurts you).
Fact is, servers will continue to use ranks, kits, mods, plugins, to charge players to keep themselves alive, is it unfair? Maybe, is it wrong? maybe, is it unethical maybe? You are forgetting one thing, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PLAY ON THAT SERVER. You are still in control of FREE WILL, "Choice". To choose or not to choose to play...
100k servers, you cannot tell me that atleast one server in the world is to your liking...
Alas, I await for my C&D letter from Mojang, Good luck fellow hosters!
Their rules are fair to everyone, except for the fact that people can charge money to gain entry to the server. That's just kind of an excuse to get people to shell out money to greedy server owners. Still, the rules are pretty fair. If you advertise special things for people who give money to the server (which would be called purchases when people give money for items), then that's not fair to the people who are sensible & won't pay for items.
If people just give money to the server for the sheer fact that they like it, then that is alright. There are no advantages in that system, just people who like the server and give money to it just because they are happy it exists. If your server isn't making enough money to keep it running, then use some of your own money. You had to use your own money to get the server started in the first place, so why can't you use that same money to keep it going?
Before people complain about, "I don't have enough money to keep my server going," remember that you made the decision to buy the game and made the decision to agree to the EULA. You must abide by the rules that Mojang has set in place for most everything that relates to Minecraft. If they say that you can't use Pay-2-Win tactics to get people to purchase items on your server, then you can't use Pay-2-Win tactics. If they say that people can't make money off of their game, then people can't make money off of their game. You didn't help make the game, you didn't work on the code that makes the game run, so why are you entitled to the money that you make off of people purchasing items off of the server that you are renting?
No, you can't. Did you read the post you're replying to? The whole point of the updated EULA is that you can no longer do this. You may have OPINIONS on what you should and should not be able to do, but your statement is flat out wrong.
And yes, I am still the Master of Disaster.
And yes, I am still the Master of Disaster.
Anyways nothing offensiv on here, and if anythig is "found" it comes from your own immagination. Farewell corruption.
- A close friend to ___MeRliN___
I'm pretty calm sir, read my last post: I await my C&D. If I don't get any, its all just hoax. Thus, I continue to run the server as I please and see fit. FYI, minecraft server client is still the exact same size, last date of modification. Not violating any rules.
The server would probably be Vanilla lol.
Except the issue is that most people that play on these servers abide with the pay-to-win systems to the point where they start paying with their moms' credit cards. Tell me now, do you seriously think that Mojang allowing people to PAY TO ENTER a server isn't enough?
If the server hosts REALLY needed the money, then they could have a pay-to-enter system, or a donation system that gives them aesthetics, which would be sufficient to pay the rent if the server is popular. Blocking off players from using specific items and entities is merely a method of whoring money.
My fan fiction of the game: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1957118-programmer-my-first-fan-fiction/#entry24096758
Besides, it's not like realms actually competes with full servers. It's way too limited and restrictive. Never mind that plenty of people (myself included) will continue happily hosting small servers four small communities of players. A server hosted on someone's spare computer in their house is still going to be better than a realms hosted world. (Provided the owner actually knows what they are doing anyway.)
It doesn't matter whether their rules satisfy your or not. You bought the game made by them. They sold it to you. It's their work. If you had at least so much as a minor part in the creation of the game, then maybe you could charge for items, but you can't walk right up to them and tell them how to run their game.
My fan fiction of the game: http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/1957118-programmer-my-first-fan-fiction/#entry24096758
This isn't so much a matter of legality as it is morality. The terms of service laid out by the previous EULA definition was incredibly vague. If you'll remember, even Mojang admitted that, and that was the cause of all this fuss. Now, they're refining those terms.
The issue with that is that they allowed that vaguery to control and dictate the means by which the community supported itself. True, in some ways this created the pay-to-win system, and that may be an issue, but to attempt to completely choke out the community based on their own personal beliefs is wrong. Let's talk dirty metaphors:
"You live in a city, which has just passed a new law, stating that sodas are illegal. Of course, nobody takes this serious. It's soda, afterall. We'll just do what we do naturally, and drink it on our own personal whims. As the years go by, the city takes no measures whatsoever in enforcing this law. It allows soda to be sold, and soda ends up becoming incredibly popular. It's sold on every street corner, every restaurant, and even in the back alleyways of the crime-ridden poor districts.
Soda ends up becoming an icon for the city. It attracts tourists to come see the city, who end up flooding the local economy, turning it into a booming soda sight-scene. (That's a doozy, eh?)
All the while, the city does nothing about enforcing the soda law. It actually profits from the lack of enforcement, to the point that soda-related activities become a staple in the everyday lives of the citizens. Things are going swell in soda-ville.
All of a sudden, the city decides that a particular brand of this soda is violating the law. It sends out a massive order of removal for all citrus-using products in the city. The families, those that have chosen to sell their lemony beverages instead of the more popular cocoa bean-using drinks, are now suddenly out of work. Their businesses are foreclosed upon, their mortgages withdrawn, and their children forced to rummage through the dumpsters for food."
While vastly overexaggerated, this has a lot of similarity to our situation with Mojang. The issue doesn't lie in the fact that we've always been breaking the law, but in the fact that the law wasn't enforced, which PROMOTED ITS BEING BROKEN. On top of that, Mojang has profited from this. The ability to sell donation packages as we please has allowed us to run our servers in a business model that's right for us. It's promoted self-growth, and the community has flourished from it. Self-growth is the very core of this community, and without that hands-free attitude we've always seen from Mojang on certain areas, we'll see that growth stifled and put in the ground.
Firstly, Mojang does, in fact, have the ability and resources to shut down any server they want, without a cease and desist order or anything of the like. With the switch to the CDR system, they now have the ability to block every Minecraft client from accessing a server IP if they should so desire. All they would have to do is input a check into the launcher protocals at startup so that it will force Minecraft to disconnect from said server's IP if the client attempts to connect. There's no way to avoid it, and no way to change it.
Secondly, Mojang can tell you what you can and cannot do on your server, because it's their server. Even if you host it on your own computer, and run all of your own custom plugins, Mojang still made Minecraft, still owns Minecraft, and the server you're running all of this on..is Minecraft. You're using their product and program, and must abide by the EULA agreed to when you purchased the game or suffer loss of service and play. Any plugin that you write still uses Minecraft's physics and coded program to do what it does, and the same goes for mods. They only have to allow you to do with their property what they feel like letting you do.
Now then, as to those fearing that almost all servers everywhere will be shut down, or that their server is under attack by Mojang changing the EULA, this simply isn't so. Unless you are one of the servers that charges ridiculous amounts for in-game kits, ranks, or currency, you have nothing to worry about. Mojang is only going to target the mega-servers that have caused them months of grief from complaint after complaint about children stealing their parent's credit cards to pay for outrageous server fees, and such like that.
While massive servers like Hypixel and Mineplex may suffer, they don't have to. If they change the way they manage things, stop charging outrageous fees for things in-game, and overall make it so they aren't "pay-to-win," they could survive unscathed. And servers that run things without these issues have nothing to worry about either way. Mojang knows that most server owners keep things fair and balanced on their servers, and make huge efforts to keep their players, and their community as a whole, happy and healthy. They wouldn't make changes to the EULA that killed off what makes the Minecraft community so excellent.
The moral of everything here is that, unless you are charging $850 for a kit for a single mingame (*cough* Mineplex *cough cough*), the changes to the EULA aren't going to affect too much of your gameplay. Minigames don't have to be based on people donating for better items and gear than everyone else, and those servers that don't ruin people's livelihoods with enormous cart options aren't in any trouble. Mojang is just working out a way to act against servers that abuse Minecraft to sap money from people, yet still allow servers to take donations to stay alive and kicking. Things will work out over time, the finer points will be ironed out, and once Mojang has a good hold on how to handle this, the EULA will change to reflect that.
Now then, stop your arguing and worrying, and get back to mining and crafting! There's no reason to let arguing over the EULA ruin the game you love.
If they do that then some one in the comunity will make a launcher such as multi mc and it will bypass that what you have said.