Yeah but have you looked at the threads of these 'rp giants' ? Its ppl having conversation, hey x go on xbox, hey y what's up..
They're doing it on purpose and quite frankly its pathetic. how lamely they circumvent the system
A lot of them are just whitelist applications though and with these servers which get incredibly popular, so the amount of apps just increases like a chain reaction, but if we can stop these conversations I think that it would lower the number of posts on the thread giving other servers a chance.
A lot of them are just whitelist applications though and with these servers which get incredibly popular, so the amount of apps just increases like a chain reaction, but if we can stop these conversations I think that it would lower the number of posts on the thread giving other servers a chance.
Yeah the applications are fine. But one post for example I saw was like:
added blacksmith..
next post
added store...
lol if I was to do that I'd have like 600 replies on my own thread
When they're hosting events and staying stuff they added to the server stuff like that is understandable. I mean there ARE a lot of minecraft servers so it stands to reason the list will populate quickly
I would like to request that the whole "whitelist postings are permitted" rule be reconsidered/removed.
Asking "Please whitelist me" is nothing more than a bump. It is nothing of interest to anyone except the server admins and the person requesting. Most servers seem to have their own forums if they are big, and if they are not then it can be done by PM's.
For that matter, some of the RP threads were of interest. Canaleth was a great example. Yes, the story may have been hard to follow if you were new to it, but it was a story by the players.
To find that "Please whitelist me" is allowed, but an actual player generated story is not?
Right now, if you try to show all new posts, you'll be flooded by server whitelist requests.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
How are we supposed to advertise our servers, then?
Are you supposed to be able to?
If there are 20,000 minecraft servers, and even 1% of them post a day -- that's slightly more than once per three months -- that's 200 posts a day and the forum is flooded.
So, are you even supposed to be able to freely advertise a server?
What if it was just announcements of major changes? New locations built up and opened for people to explore in. Major changes to the game's internal events. Things like that -- where you might expect to post one to three times a year.
A special section for new startup servers.
A section for established servers that have steady low player counts that want to get new players -- warning, this is basically saying that your server had previously failed and you want people to take another look at something trying to come back from the dead.
Beyond that? Encourage your players to put something in their signature, so that when they post normally people get links to your server thread without your server thread constantly being pushed up to the top for no reason at all.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
I disagree with the absolute no-bumping rule. How then, if no one posts on our topic, do we manage to advertise? We can not bump our post, we can not create a new one..It's supposed to die and never come back? Bumping should be limited, yes, but not completely removed. I can think of no other forum that does not allow bumping at ALL.
there is only one way to get noticed and that is to break the rules. This is how it is and I seriously doubt Curse is going to change that anytime soon. It would simply take too much manpower to respond to every report of bumps or rule breaking and they are not going to put that kind of money into it.
Furthermore, they are not going to ban the larger servers for breaking the rules anyways, they will only do that to smaller guys. This is just how the world works.
I disagree with the absolute no-bumping rule. How then, if no one posts on our topic, do we manage to advertise? We can not bump our post, we can not create a new one..It's supposed to die and never come back? Bumping should be limited, yes, but not completely removed. I can think of no other forum that does not allow bumping at ALL.
:sad.gif:
First, I know of other "no bumping" forums.
Second, how do you advertise? Well, lets see:
1. You have signature. You're allowed one link in your sig on these forums. You can talk in other sections, other threads, and let people see you.
2. How often does something special happen on your server? Do your players build stuff? Do they want to show off what they've built, or accomplished? You can post if there's something interesting to post; you just cannot post a pointless post.
Also, bumping shouldn't be allowed in mass, but if a small server with not very much hype wants to become big it needs bumps so it gets seen, can you not be honest and say that a little bumping is always going to happen, just that if it is noticed on a large scale then the infractions should take place?
There is no such thing as small scale. Even if any individual thread is not excessive, with all the large numbers of threads it will be significant in total.
there is only one way to get noticed and that is to break the rules. This is how it is and I seriously doubt Curse is going to change that anytime soon. It would simply take too much manpower to respond to every report of bumps or rule breaking and they are not going to put that kind of money into it.
Furthermore, they are not going to ban the larger servers for breaking the rules anyways, they will only do that to smaller guys. This is just how the world works.
Simple: Impose one rule:
Any rule breaking will give you one warning, and then your thread will be locked.
Will immediataely eliminate the problem.
===
People, you need to keep one thing in mind: If everyone wants their server to be seen once a day, then that's 10,000 or so posts a day. *There are too many servers for every server to be seen frequently*.
You have to realize that you probably will get seen once a month to once every 6 months. That's it.
You cannot rely on the server thread for your advertisements.
Your clans have a clan section.
Your builders have a "show off your creation" section.
All your players can post normally, and have a signature link to refer people to your thread.
Good enough?
===
Look at it from the point of view of a person looking at "What server will I play on?". I see a few servers constantly rebumped. I gave up trying to report them. I see tons of "automatic whitelist approval" sites, including some where the admins use whitelist approval to give an additional bump -- so everytime someone wants to play, the thread gets bumped twice.
I cannot see the less busy servers at all.
Take a look at the inactive link in my current signature. (Edit: Just in case, http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/958717-major-questions-for-any-econony-server/ )It's probably one of the few good "Looking for server" threads in the now locked section. Instead of applying to a server and trying to get approved, I'm asking servers to apply for my time. If I'm going to spend 2 years on a server, I want to know that it's worth it -- so I wrote out the questions that are relavent for a real economy server. Instead of trying to spend several days per server per thousands of servers trying to find a good one, I wrote what I was looking for and asked people running servers to respond.
How do you advertise a server? Why not let people say "This is what I want", and you respond with how your server fits that? That's "Looking for server".
But that section was misused, and locked.
Is it time to lock the whole existing server section if the bumping cannot be contained?
===
I think the solution is as follows:
1. No new threads in the existing server sections.
2. New section for new server threads. An absolute "No pointless bumping, no white list applications, only add to your thread when something significant happens on your server, about once every 1-6 months for most servers" rule.
3. Existing server threads can be migrated to the new section if the opening post is updated, and a final "Do not post whitelist apps here -- go to myforum.com instead" post is added.
4. And wait. As less and less is added to the old section, and more and more goes into the new, well-behaved section, then things will sort themselves out.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
I run a fairly large server thats been active since Alpha, with over 130 pages of forum posts. Most of those are whitelists - we like the idea of publicly having whitelists, because it means new people can look at them and get an idea of what to write for the bio's we require.
The only thing I find unfair, from what I've seen server admins can get in trouble for players bumping? Whenever a player bumps I remind them they're not allowed, via a PM (to not bump again) and they're usually fine with that.
What I'm wandering, does editing a post bump it? Thats what happens on our servers forums but I don't think it does here. That'd be great for the whole "update" thing - whenever you add something new, you could have a recent updates section to your post near the end, where you put the 3 most recent changes. Every time you add something it'd up your post, meaning the more up-to-date servers would get the top spot. Obviously that'd need moderation though, otherwise you'd have people updating like "added 4 more cobble to the central castle" then 20 seconds later "placed 2 stone on top of the 4 cobble"
Finally, I agree on the starting up section coming back but for a different reason. 75% of the new servers have really bad, pointless threads which are titled "epic new server" and just say "come join [IP]" - THAT is whats causing the spam... 12 year old admins who don't play fair in setting up servers.
TL;DR? If the newbies had a seperate section which automatically moves their posts to the main forum once they get 100 posts (or something) then that'd already clean up most of the forum. Whitelisting on the forum should be allowed (as it is already) because its the easiest/most efficient way to do it, and the servers who put real effort in should reap the rewards.
Browse the "Looking For" forum and message users who are looking for servers - be pro-active.
Here Here!
I've gotten _ONE_ response from my detailed writeup of economy questions for economy servers. One.
Everyone seems to say "We have an economy. We run X/Y/Z plugin". No one seems to pay attention to the functioning of an economy, expect for one person that said "If inflation gets to be too much, I'll just raise the price of land".
No one understands, or seems to understand, the difference between total money in an economy (average per person) versus amount available to people (the medium (50%) of money as seen by people, disregarding the top and bottom extremes).
I've seen so many games that had hyper inflationary economies. Heck, look at the cost of bank slots in WoW -- the next slot is always ten times more than the previous. That's designed around the assumption that money earned even 5 levels below level_max will be worthless.
I played, for several years, Puzzle Pirates. As time went on, their economy changed from very realistic to "new player friendly", with no economic end game left anymore. I don't play there anymore.
Balancing an economy is not an easy task. Other than EvE, I'm not sure that any big game has succeeded.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
Trust me - they need a team the size of Google to even be able to handle this forum section properly and I can tell you right now they're not even remotely capable of doing so.
A single forum section to advertise every possible server is simply not something that is going to work; the traffic of this site is too big and the demand and supply both bigger than your refresh button.
Not true. 100% not true.
All they have to do is start locking every topic where this is violated.
First violation: Lock topic for one day.
Second violation: Lock topic for three days.
Third violation: Lock topic until the server owner agrees to do something.
Fourth violation: Move topic to restricted sub-forum.
Every time a topic is locked, the locking moderator puts a notice in the thread.
Look at real life. There is no way that police can make sure that everyone obeys every law 100% of the time. It is the threat of being caught, and the real risk from being caught, that prevents most crime.
Get 30 or 50 locks in the first few days? Fine. Within a week it will be under control.
But you have to have the admins take a "We will lock the spammy stuff" view.
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
Most of these "RP" posts are not allowed and we will warn for that. Please report it, otherwise it's hard for us to see that! :smile.gif:
A lot of them are just whitelist applications though and with these servers which get incredibly popular, so the amount of apps just increases like a chain reaction, but if we can stop these conversations I think that it would lower the number of posts on the thread giving other servers a chance.
Yeah the applications are fine. But one post for example I saw was like:
added blacksmith..
next post
added store...
lol if I was to do that I'd have like 600 replies on my own thread
When they're hosting events and staying stuff they added to the server stuff like that is understandable. I mean there ARE a lot of minecraft servers so it stands to reason the list will populate quickly
(pr0ph3t.jestservers.com) _http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQ6bZCkqsFk
Asking "Please whitelist me" is nothing more than a bump. It is nothing of interest to anyone except the server admins and the person requesting. Most servers seem to have their own forums if they are big, and if they are not then it can be done by PM's.
For that matter, some of the RP threads were of interest. Canaleth was a great example. Yes, the story may have been hard to follow if you were new to it, but it was a story by the players.
To find that "Please whitelist me" is allowed, but an actual player generated story is not?
Right now, if you try to show all new posts, you'll be flooded by server whitelist requests.
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
Are you supposed to be able to?
If there are 20,000 minecraft servers, and even 1% of them post a day -- that's slightly more than once per three months -- that's 200 posts a day and the forum is flooded.
So, are you even supposed to be able to freely advertise a server?
What if it was just announcements of major changes? New locations built up and opened for people to explore in. Major changes to the game's internal events. Things like that -- where you might expect to post one to three times a year.
A special section for new startup servers.
A section for established servers that have steady low player counts that want to get new players -- warning, this is basically saying that your server had previously failed and you want people to take another look at something trying to come back from the dead.
Beyond that? Encourage your players to put something in their signature, so that when they post normally people get links to your server thread without your server thread constantly being pushed up to the top for no reason at all.
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
:sad.gif:
Because if everyone bumped it would be 5 seconds instead of 30.
Furthermore, they are not going to ban the larger servers for breaking the rules anyways, they will only do that to smaller guys. This is just how the world works.
First, I know of other "no bumping" forums.
Second, how do you advertise? Well, lets see:
1. You have signature. You're allowed one link in your sig on these forums. You can talk in other sections, other threads, and let people see you.
2. How often does something special happen on your server? Do your players build stuff? Do they want to show off what they've built, or accomplished? You can post if there's something interesting to post; you just cannot post a pointless post.
There is no such thing as small scale. Even if any individual thread is not excessive, with all the large numbers of threads it will be significant in total.
Simple: Impose one rule:
Any rule breaking will give you one warning, and then your thread will be locked.
Will immediataely eliminate the problem.
===
People, you need to keep one thing in mind: If everyone wants their server to be seen once a day, then that's 10,000 or so posts a day. *There are too many servers for every server to be seen frequently*.
You have to realize that you probably will get seen once a month to once every 6 months. That's it.
You cannot rely on the server thread for your advertisements.
Your clans have a clan section.
Your builders have a "show off your creation" section.
All your players can post normally, and have a signature link to refer people to your thread.
Good enough?
===
Look at it from the point of view of a person looking at "What server will I play on?". I see a few servers constantly rebumped. I gave up trying to report them. I see tons of "automatic whitelist approval" sites, including some where the admins use whitelist approval to give an additional bump -- so everytime someone wants to play, the thread gets bumped twice.
I cannot see the less busy servers at all.
Take a look at the inactive link in my current signature. (Edit: Just in case, http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/958717-major-questions-for-any-econony-server/ )It's probably one of the few good "Looking for server" threads in the now locked section. Instead of applying to a server and trying to get approved, I'm asking servers to apply for my time. If I'm going to spend 2 years on a server, I want to know that it's worth it -- so I wrote out the questions that are relavent for a real economy server. Instead of trying to spend several days per server per thousands of servers trying to find a good one, I wrote what I was looking for and asked people running servers to respond.
How do you advertise a server? Why not let people say "This is what I want", and you respond with how your server fits that? That's "Looking for server".
But that section was misused, and locked.
Is it time to lock the whole existing server section if the bumping cannot be contained?
===
I think the solution is as follows:
1. No new threads in the existing server sections.
2. New section for new server threads. An absolute "No pointless bumping, no white list applications, only add to your thread when something significant happens on your server, about once every 1-6 months for most servers" rule.
3. Existing server threads can be migrated to the new section if the opening post is updated, and a final "Do not post whitelist apps here -- go to myforum.com instead" post is added.
4. And wait. As less and less is added to the old section, and more and more goes into the new, well-behaved section, then things will sort themselves out.
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
http://www.minecraftforum.net/forum/158-looking-for/
http://oi41.tinypic.com/w9b1g8.jpg
The only thing I find unfair, from what I've seen server admins can get in trouble for players bumping? Whenever a player bumps I remind them they're not allowed, via a PM (to not bump again) and they're usually fine with that.
What I'm wandering, does editing a post bump it? Thats what happens on our servers forums but I don't think it does here. That'd be great for the whole "update" thing - whenever you add something new, you could have a recent updates section to your post near the end, where you put the 3 most recent changes. Every time you add something it'd up your post, meaning the more up-to-date servers would get the top spot. Obviously that'd need moderation though, otherwise you'd have people updating like "added 4 more cobble to the central castle" then 20 seconds later "placed 2 stone on top of the 4 cobble"
Finally, I agree on the starting up section coming back but for a different reason. 75% of the new servers have really bad, pointless threads which are titled "epic new server" and just say "come join [IP]" - THAT is whats causing the spam... 12 year old admins who don't play fair in setting up servers.
TL;DR? If the newbies had a seperate section which automatically moves their posts to the main forum once they get 100 posts (or something) then that'd already clean up most of the forum. Whitelisting on the forum should be allowed (as it is already) because its the easiest/most efficient way to do it, and the servers who put real effort in should reap the rewards.
Paving the way to a better world!
Here Here!
I've gotten _ONE_ response from my detailed writeup of economy questions for economy servers. One.
Everyone seems to say "We have an economy. We run X/Y/Z plugin". No one seems to pay attention to the functioning of an economy, expect for one person that said "If inflation gets to be too much, I'll just raise the price of land".
No one understands, or seems to understand, the difference between total money in an economy (average per person) versus amount available to people (the medium (50%) of money as seen by people, disregarding the top and bottom extremes).
I've seen so many games that had hyper inflationary economies. Heck, look at the cost of bank slots in WoW -- the next slot is always ten times more than the previous. That's designed around the assumption that money earned even 5 levels below level_max will be worthless.
I played, for several years, Puzzle Pirates. As time went on, their economy changed from very realistic to "new player friendly", with no economic end game left anymore. I don't play there anymore.
Balancing an economy is not an easy task. Other than EvE, I'm not sure that any big game has succeeded.
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?
Not true. 100% not true.
All they have to do is start locking every topic where this is violated.
First violation: Lock topic for one day.
Second violation: Lock topic for three days.
Third violation: Lock topic until the server owner agrees to do something.
Fourth violation: Move topic to restricted sub-forum.
Every time a topic is locked, the locking moderator puts a notice in the thread.
Look at real life. There is no way that police can make sure that everyone obeys every law 100% of the time. It is the threat of being caught, and the real risk from being caught, that prevents most crime.
Get 30 or 50 locks in the first few days? Fine. Within a week it will be under control.
But you have to have the admins take a "We will lock the spammy stuff" view.
* Promoting this week: Captive Minecraft 4, Winter Realm. Aka: Vertical Vanilla Viewing. Clicky!
* My channel with Mystcraft, and general Minecraft Let's Plays: http://www.youtube.com/user/Keybounce.
* See all my video series: http://www.minecraftforum.net/forums/minecraft-editions/minecraft-editions-show-your/2865421-keybounces-list-of-creation-threads
(In regard to a mod that gives realistic animal genetics):
Would you really rather have bees that make diamonds and oil with magical genetic blocks?
... did I really ask that?